Duke Rape Case Round-Up

I'm here because: -I'm a Duke Student -I'm Black -I'm a Woman -I'm Human
Above: Photo from a vigil held outside the house where the rape took place.

* If you want to follow this story, the blog to read is Justice 4 Two Sisters.

* 15 of the lacrosse team members have been arrested before – mostly minor stuff, like drinking.

* Duke has canceled all lacrosse games until there is a “clearer resolution.”

* From the blog Life In The Chocolate City:

One of the young ladies was held down, beaten, choked, raped and sodomized. The police reports say that in the house they found her fingernails, her make-up bag and her cellphone. This is certainly the customary items a woman leaves behind after entertaining a group of athletes right? It’s typical for a white guy to holler out “Thank your grandpa for my cotton shirt” while getting a lapdance from a Black woman right? Of course it isn’t. [...]

Let’s just imagine that this assault took place at a predominately Black university and the victims were white, this would’ve been front page national news. [...] It seems to me that this story has remained local to the North Carolina area. Their media is covering the story completely, but what about the rest of the nation. You can’t tell me that this isn’t newsworthy. It sure is newsworthy to African-Americans.

He’s right.

And regarding the details of the rape: These are mainstream, clean-cut, normal young American men. But look at the miles-deep reservoirs of woman-loathing and Black-loathing they were carrying around, just waiting for the right (wrong) situation.

Are all men like this? God no. But too many are – too many for it to be called abnormal. Cultural masculinity is a sickness that can turn men into monsters, and men in college sports are exposed to more of this virulent stuff than anyone. Do I excuse these rapists? No, of course not – they are responsible for what they’ve done, and I fervently hope they rot behind bars. But until our culture completely changes the way we construct masculinity, boys with their heart set on demonstrating their masculinity to their friends/teammates/frat brothers/whatever are going to keep on committing gang rapes.

Porn spam I routinely delete from comments sometimes uses phrases like “teen rape” and “black bitch gets raped” for a sales pitch. Why do they think they’ll make money with ads like that? Presumably, because they are making money with ads like that. Ordinary men, drawing on their own internal woman-loathing and Black-loathing, are plunking down money to masturbate to porn labeled “black bitch gets raped.” How awful is a culture in which that’s seen as no big deal?

Anyhow, more posts and articles worth reading:

Blackfeminism.org

I’ll put the race issue aside. This is also the result of universities allowing a negative athlete culture. More than a few studies have shown that athletes and frat boys are more likely to rape than other men, in part because all-male environments encourage aggressive and violent displays of manhood.

Q Grrl: Background From The Local Community

The town is pissed. Royally. And we’ve been pissed at the lacrosse team players and coach for the last ten years … even though the players obviously rotate out after 4 years. The team is notorious for it’s disruptive behavior in the neighborhoods around Duke. I lived across from the main lacrosse house for 7 years … and I can no longer count my calls to 911. In fact, a call I made a few years back resulted in 67 citations for underage drinking … the coach didn’t bat an eye. Similarly, I know that at one point, campus women were aware of sexual assault and harassment by lacrosse players. The house they lived in was repeatedly toilet papered … and once, upon seeing the black-clad women tp-ing the house I asked why. Their reply: to warn other undergraduate women that a woman had been assualted while at a lacrosse party.

Pinko Feminist Hellcat: Race, Entitlement and Rape

Don’t doubt for a minute that these women will be slut-baited. We already know what happens to women who are deemed sexual–they are sluts, whores, asking for it. They are suddenly trying to recapture lost virute. They are golddiggers trying to get cash on a false rape charge. Maybe they’ll be deemed crazy and therefore uncredible. Maybe the defense will decide that they really, really need their medical records and–ooops!–just release them accidentally on purpose. It’s happened before.

David Wright: Message to Duke Lacrosse Players

There are only two possibilities I see here. Either you come forward with the truth that reveals none of the criminal allegations actually happened or you come forward with the truth that at least with respect to some of your teammates, some or all of the allegations are true. To refuse to come forward with either version is to take the absolute worst course of action. If indeed that girl was raped, she is certainly some father’s little girl, and she could be some brother’s sister. If she was your sister, would you refuse to come forward with the truth to protect the “code” among your teammates?

(See David’s other posts on the subject, here and here).

Ruth Sheehan: Team’s Silence Is Sickening

Jill Hopman: Duke’s Lacrosse Players Still Defiantly Partying

Reflections of a Redhead: Break Room Conversation
Wouldn’t it be great to live in a country which had gotten beyond “well she deserved it” attitudes?

Dreams Into Lightning Pulls Together A Lot Of Interesting Connections

The iPinions Journal discusses how media coverage varies according to race.

Sporlitics

Lacrosse has always been chock-full of the same types that later commit the white-collar crimes like Enron: rich, white kids whose only possession greater than their wealth is their cockiness and general sense of untouchability. The only difference between them and what they will become thirty years down the road is a total misunderstanding of consequences, a dangerous ingredient.

* * *

Backwards Assholes Read Newspaper Websites
The readers’ comments at the News Observer blog are pretty appalling. Some examples:

These men have been hanged in the court of public opinion, justice and liberty be damned. Witch hunts in days of yore are referenced by feminazis as examples of historical misogony. They don’t question their own actions however when they are the ones hunting for punishment.

Yes, because getting angry and demanding an investigation is exactly the same thing as burning innocent people to death.

But what do I know, I’m still assuming that if 3 actually are guilty, forty some other guys aren’t. But that’s crazy, men are evil, right?

I don’t think that men who watch and do nothing as three of their buddies drag an unwilling woman into a bathroom are innocent. I’m not sure what exactly it is that they’re guilty of, but I sure hope a courtroom soon finds out.

Praising protestors (who may have in fact been trespassing) for supporting a woman who may very well have been breaking the law (in working for an escort service) due to her allegations that have NOT been proven to be true is shoddy writing, no matter if the writer is a reporter or a columnist.

Yes, trespassing; that’s what we should be focusing on here. That, and laws broken by the victim.

This entry posted in Duke Rape Case, Race, racism and related issues, Rape, intimate violence, & related issues. Bookmark the permalink. 

227 Responses to Duke Rape Case Round-Up

  1. 201
    LostFaith says:

    I used to read this blog a lot. Then the Duke case hit the news and the boards went totally, batshit insane. Everyone was rushing to judgement, and I saw several posters gets slapped down for voicing honest questions about the accuser’s credibility. Now, it looks more and more like they had a point.

    People would point out that she was a stripper/escort with a felonious past, and that she was on the verge of being carted off to jail for public drunkeness when she first made her allegations. Everyone here seemd to have the attitude: “So what??!! Those posters are misogynistic jackasses for questioning whether any woman would lie.” Well, that was enough for me. I stopped reading. It’s one thing to support an ideal. It’s another to willfully ignore reality and pretend we live in a vacuum. If you want to tell me that escorts with rapsheets are just as honest as the next gal…well go sell it somewhere else.

    But tempers were hot, and I can forgive, so I decided to give it some time. Cut to two months later. I thought I’d come back and see if the tenor of the discussion had changed. Instead I find that nobody wants to talk about it at all. I think that’s pathetic. Let’s look in the mirror. And let’s not try to be so knee-jerk next time. Stop. Look at the facts. Withhold judgement. And yes, look at what is known about an accuser before deciding how much weight to lend their statements. Because at the end of the day, most cases aren’t JUST he said/she said. There will be evidence one way or the other. So even if an accuser has lesser credibility, she can still prove her case.

    But it won’t happen in this one. I don’t think the case will see trial. That’s just a prediction. And let me be the first to say – that doesn’t mean a damn thing about our society in general. This is just one case. It doesn’t “represent a narrative that plays out in the south, between races, between classes…blah blah blah.” It’s just one case. One false accuser doesn’t mean most women lie about rape. But neither should one false accuser be used to paint all men, or Duke students, or rich guys, or lacrosse players, or whatever, as evil rapist thugs.

    Thoughts? Somebody restore my faith in responsible feminism.

  2. 202
    Rachel S. says:

    Teresa and Lostfaith,
    I stand behind my statements. I just simply can’t believe everything I hear from the defense attorneys. Personally, if I believed everything the defense said and felt all of the evidence was out I would agree that there is reasonable doubt, but I don’t believe everything the defense says, and I think the remainder of info. will come out at trial.

  3. 203
    Curious says:

    What can be a definitive proof of a rape given the absence of conclusive DNA material? Any guesses? Remember, it has to be SO concrete as to wipe off the inconsistencies revealed yet. My guess -

    A video tape of the rape (ofcourse the jocks would be stupid to keep an evidence like that, when they meticulously hid all others).

  4. 204
    LostFaith says:

    Hypothetically – what happens if this woman comes out and admits she made the whole thing up?
    I don’t really expect that will happen. And I’m not saying she did make it up. But just for the sake of arguement, let’s imagine she says “Sorry. I lied about everything.”

    At that point, who here would be woman enough to say, “You know what? It’s time to admit that some people had a sense about this accuser and I missed the boat. They weren’t racist, or misogynistic…they just have a firmer grip on who is credible and who is not.

    Or would you challenge that point? Do you honestly believe that everyone has the same ability to detect B.S.? What if you’re just being incredibly naive? Stop and consider whether you are using the right criterion to evaluate how much credence you give to the testimony (for lack of a better word) of strangers.

    Specifically, should any of the following be factored in to whether you take the word of an accuser as gospel: a) a history of criminal behavior, b)a history of mental illness, c)prior accusations that did not result in charges being filed, d) habitual drug abuse, e) current employment in the sex industry, or f) all of the above. And really – feel free to take on each on individually. I do. They are not all equal strikes against. But none of them would BOLSTER my confidence…. in any accuser.

    If you disagree with all of the above, you apparently use no B.S. filter at all, and I would ask that you please send me your address. I’ve got some great Nebraska coastline properties for you to invest in…you could make a fortune!

    Point is…if these guys did it, there will be a way to prove it. In this instance, why would it come down to her word against theirs? She didn’t shower away any evidence. There were dozens of possible witnesses (including a female who stands to benefit in her own legal woes by supporting the prosecution). You shouldn’t have to close your eyes and hold your nose while you choke down conflicting stories and fantastic details. You ought to be able to say “her word doesn’t count for as much as (say) my grandmother’s, but I still think something happened…and here’s why.” Then list your evidence. If there is no evidence…I suggest the DA ought to spend the county’s money on 10 other rape cases he can actually win.

  5. 205
    Q Grrl says:

    So ya’ll are conveniently forgetting that the reason the two women left the party in the first place was because one of the lacrosse players threatened to sodomize them with a broomstick? I stand behind every criticism I’ve levied at the lacrosse players.

  6. 206
    RonF says:

    So ya’ll are conveniently forgetting that the reason the two women left the party in the first place was because one of the lacrosse players threatened to sodomize them with a broomstick?

    Is there anyone besides the accuser and her friend who testify to this?

    As I’ve said in the past; there’s way too much self-serving statements (from both sides) flying around on this. It’s going to be very interesting to see what happens when people have to testify under oath and evidence is actually brought out at trial. Right now there’s no way to believe anyone in this case.

  7. 207
    LostFaith says:

    Everything I’ve read suggests that ONE of the guys held up a broom after the dancers said they didn’t bring any sex toys and said: “Here. Use this.” That’s a really terrible joke. Not a threat.
    It’s plenty reason enough to leave the party. It’s not enough of a reason to call them all racists, rapists, and thugs.

    How can you stand behind every criticism you’ve every made when you paint 46 guys with a brush that ought to be reserved for 1, QGrrrl?

  8. 208
    Q Grrl says:

    “How can you stand behind every criticism you’ve every made when you paint 46 guys with a brush that ought to be reserved for 1, QGrrrl? ”

    Because all 46 of those guys *bought* a woman for their sexual gratification.

    I suppose you could say that my attitude just goes with the territory. Don’t want to be accused of rape? Don’t buy women then.

    (FTR, the accuser’s “credibility” is no less tarnished then the lacrosse players — please see above, where I’m sure I’ve related my first hand experiences with the team)

    Further, on the off chance this woman is lying, I would imagine that we all might get a better idea of how our current rape culture affects everyone and how rape is used to shape the course of many people’s lives.

  9. 209
    Curious says:

    Q Grrl,

    ‘Because all 46 of those guys *bought* a woman for their sexual gratification’ – Why did she of all women get bought? Would you get *bought* by a man or lets say 100 men for their sexual gratification? I dont see her having any problems with being *bought* or selling herself for that matter.

    Just like you said – “Don’t want to be accused of rape? Don’t buy women then.”

    How about a reversal of sexes – “Dont want to get raped, dont sell yourself to men for sexual gratification”. See it turns out heinous, thats why chill out and give it a thought, tone down the rhetoric. Infact all you are doing is stomping on credibility of strippers or prostitutes who may be raped in future.

    BTW, what ‘rape culture’ do you live in? what part of the world? I would like to visit it. It must be legal and honorable to rape women in that culture, otherwise why would you make such an insinuation.

  10. 210
    Q Grrl says:

    Oh, Curious! Go read some feminist theory, please. Then come back.

    Or read the news. Or do a Google search on Rape Culture.

    Yes, these men bought a woman. Cashola. Dinero. Dolla Dolla bill. They paid her for her body.

    I have a few problems with their morality, ethics, and credibility because of that. ‘kay?

    How about a reversal of sexes – “Dont want to get raped, dont sell yourself to men for sexual gratification”.

    How is this a reversal of anything? It’s what the majority of people have been saying all along.

  11. 211
    Ampersand says:

    BTW, what ‘rape culture’ do you live in? what part of the world? I would like to visit it. It must be legal and honorable to rape women in that culture, otherwise why would you make such an insinuation.

    Are you honestly unaware that there’s a feminist term called “rape culture,” and that the term does not refer to a society in which rape is legal? Or are you just the sort of person who thinks that lame punning is a substitute for reasonable argumentation?

    I’m not saying that you can’t post here and disagree with the feminist idea of rape culture. I am saying that for you to be worth reading, you have to show that you have a reasonable understanding of what “rape culture” means to the feminists who use the term, and your critique has to amount to more than saying “oh what a stupid concept!,” which is in essence all you’ve said so far.

  12. 212
    RonF says:

    Amp, a lot of people have read little to no feminist writings. I’d hazard a guess that in fact, I could say “most” and be accurate. Hell, I couldn’t define the term myself and I hang out here! It’s not too much of a stretch to imagine that a random person stumbling in here wouldn’t recognize that term out of context.

    Q Grrl, I do want to think about this “they paid for her body” idea some. They surely paid to look at her body. But saying “they bought a woman” implies that they bought the right to do to her whatever they wanted to. To say “Don’t want to be accused of rape? Don’t buy women then.” seems to lead down the path that having hired a stripper justifiably invites rape accusations. Since I don’t like to put words in someone’s mouth, I ask if that’s what you mean? It also limits the rights of the woman who decided to sell her services as a stripper.

    If I buy a set of services from someone, does that mean I bought them? If I hired a plumber, I didn’t “buy a man/woman”. Stripping services are different from plumbing services, but are they that different that it justifies that usage?

    I’m aware that some guys don’t understand that such transactions are limited to the original and stated terms. Hell, there’s still guys who figure that if they take a woman on a date and spend a lot of money, they’re entitled to more than good conversation in return. So I can imagine that in a bunch of drunk yahoos, one or two of them might decide to try to get more than they bargained for. But it shouldn’t be regarded that people who stick to the original agreement should be open to accusations of something they didn’t do.

  13. 213
    Q Grrl says:

    Did slavemasters buy the slave? Even though what they wanted was the slave labour?

    These men bought a woman for their sexual gratification. I don’t see how that isn’t screamingly apparent. Unless we all want to continue to delude ourselves about what men *do* when they exchange money for sexual gratification/titillation.

    To say “Don’t want to be accused of rape? Don’t buy women then.” seems to lead down the path that having hired a stripper justifiably invites rape accusations.

    But why shouldn’t it? What is so sacrosanct about male sexual release that this *isn’t* the norm? Why are men so confident that they will get precisely the “service” they paid for and no grief for doing so? Could it be the latent threat of rape? That women who strip or prostitute themselves *know*, inherently, that if the man/men are not pleased, no one is going to believe the women if they get raped in retalliation.

    She’s just a whore afterall; willing to sell herself to men for degradation and the messiness of illicit male sexuality.

    I mean, if men *aren’t* buying the women, and just buying the act, then why do women who strip or prostitute themselves get reviled, put down, socially stigmatized? Wouldn’t it be the opposite? That the men should be reviled, put down, socially stigmatized for the sexual weakness and perversion? But that doesn’t happen. Why?

    Because the men are buying the women. Not the sex act.

    If they were buying the sex act, they’d have to own up to their malformed and antisocial sexuality.

  14. 214
    RonF says:

    Did slavemasters buy the slave? Even though what they wanted was the slave labour?

    Yes they did. Slavemasters bought slaves. But there’s a lot of differences. Slaves are (present tense, there’s a lot of slaves in the world yet) property; the money handed over by the slavemaster goes to the slave’s previous owner, not to the slave. A slave is no party to the negotiation. The slave must provide whatever services the slavemaster wants and has no recourse, legal or otherwise, if the slavemaster wants to make changes. The slave gets whatever compensation the slaveowner cares to provide. And the arrangement was permanent, not temporary.

    A stripper has a choice whether or not to be a stripper. He or she negotiates what the terms are, is only obligated to provide what services were negotiated, is paid, and is then free to go somewhere else to perform for someone else – or not, as they choose. They are not owned, as a slave is. Their freely-negotiated services are purchased for a fixed time and place.

    These men bought a woman for their sexual gratification. I don’t see how that isn’t screamingly apparent. Unless we all want to continue to delude ourselves about what men *do* when they exchange money for sexual gratification/titillation.

    Do you see anyone disputing this?

    But why shouldn’t it? What is so sacrosanct about male sexual release that this *isn’t* the norm? Why are men so confident that they will get precisely the “service” they paid for and no grief for doing so? Could it be the latent threat of rape?

    Nothing’s sacrosanct about male sexual release. Or female sexual release. My wife has gone to more strip clubs than I have, to watch guys take their clothes off for money. Should she then be subject to rape accusations?

    It’s got nothing to do with sexual release being sacrosanct. What’s sacrosanct is the contract or agreement. If a group of guys or women agree to exchange money for a strip show, and that’s what happens, why shouldn’t they be confident that they would get precisely the service they paid for and no grief for doing so? Just like any other agreement?

    That women who strip or prostitute themselves *know*, inherently, that if the man/men are not pleased, no one is going to believe the women if they get raped in retalliation.

    From what I’m seeing on the blogs and in the news, there’s a whole lot of people who believe this woman. I don’t believe or disbelieve her; I’m waiting until dependable information comes out.

    She’s just a whore afterall; willing to sell herself to men for degradation and the messiness of illicit male sexuality. I mean, if men *aren’t* buying the women, and just buying the act, then why do women who strip or prostitute themselves get reviled, put down, socially stigmatized? Wouldn’t it be the opposite? That the men should be reviled, put down, socially stigmatized for the sexual weakness and perversion? But that doesn’t happen. Why? Because the men are buying the women. Not the sex act. If they were buying the sex act, they’d have to own up to their malformed and antisocial sexuality.

    Hm. So every man or woman who hires a stripper figures that the stripper is a whore and wants to degrade him or her? And how illicit is it if you can go down the newspaper ads and use your credit card to hire one every night if you’ve got the cash? Hiring a stripper is malformed and antisocial sexuality? Dang.

    And I really don’t follow the logic here. What you seem to be saying is that men are not reviled for hiring a stripper because instead of having engaged in buying a selected service, they’ve really engaged in slavery. Which, apparently, is more honorable. No, I just don’t see any logical structure in the last part of your statements at all. If I misrepresent your statement, it’s because I don’t understand it. I don’t see any logic in “since men are not reviled for hiring a stripper, it means that they haven’t bought a sex act, they’ve bought a woman.”

    BTW, does that mean that when a group of local suburban women hire a male stripper for their bachelorette party, or go to the “Sugar Shack” to watch the boys dance, they’re figuring that all the men are whores, that the men better satisfy the women or they’ll assault them, that these women have actually bought those men, and that they should be reviled and stigmatized for it?

  15. 215
    Curious says:

    With all due respect, if you as a reasonable person are going to call any culture some thing as vile sounding as a ‘rape culture’, you ought to be able to point and prove that it deserves that kind of name. I am aware of the term being thrown around on feminist blogs, just that it does not make sense to me (like ‘jihad’ used by islamic extremists), cause there is nothing, anything close to what the insinuation claims.

    “Are you honestly unaware that there’s a feminist term called “rape culture,” and that the term does not refer to a society in which rape is legal? Or are you just the sort of person who thinks that lame punning is a substitute for reasonable argumentation?”

    Why insult any culture by calling it a ‘rape culture’? Is there anything in a feminist dictionary like a ‘whore culture’ or are the insulting terms limited to point at the entire male sex, irrespective of crime and innocence?

    Why be so brash with language is what I want to know, unless you really believe in using hate language to get attention to you and your issues (pun not intended). As far as your ‘guilty of rape because they hired strippers’, is the same argument that goes on the lines of ‘hookers/whores/strippers cannot be raped’. Please restrain the hatred, it is injurious to society.

    BTW, you ought to talk to the stripper friends and offer them some jobs and help them out of the ‘slavery’ they are enduring. Please let us all know what they told you when you do make those offers.

  16. 216
    Erika Gillian says:

    Curious, we’re talking here about a theory that most if not all the feminists know of and understand. This is a pro-feminist blog, if you want to seriously discuss the issues here you may want to understand the terminology used.

    Not to be insulting but what you’re asking here is like going into, say, an open source forum and asking what a creative commons license is and then when told how to find out, refuse to go look but come back and insist they tell you.

    So basically Ampersand, not to put words into his mouth of course, said here’s a term that’s understood by most here, why don’t you go read up on it and then come back if you have more questions.

    I second that motion.

  17. 217
    Curious says:

    Erika, the thing is, a creative commons license exists and can be proven.

    I found this in my short research on rape culture – “Rape represents an extreme behavior but one that is on a continuum with normal male behavior within the culture”. This comes from a feminist researcher. I will provide you with the link if you want, but you probably know that already.

    Please confirm your belief in that statement, if you do believe so.

  18. 218
    Ampersand says:

    I agree with that statement (which was made by Mary Koss). I’m confused why you find it so offensive.

    If I said that murder represents an extreme but one that’s on the same spectrum as other aggressive acts, would you find that objectionable, too?

  19. 219
    Ampersand says:

    For the record, I think of “rape culture” – which is derived from “rape supportive culture,” a term used by Susan Brownmiller – as referring to the aspects of a culture which foster beliefs and attitudes that make rape more likely than it would otherwise be.

    Why insult any culture by calling it a ‘rape culture’? Is there anything in a feminist dictionary like a ‘whore culture’ or are the insulting terms limited to point at the entire male sex, irrespective of crime and innocence?

    Why do you think that the term “rape culture” insults all men? I’ve seen people refer to a “culture of violence” – do you think that if someone uses the phrase “culture of violence,” they’re insulting all men, or all people?

    Why be so brash with language is what I want to know…?

    “Rape culture” is indeed a harsh term. But rape is a serious matter that deserves a harsh term.

    Why are you so focused on language rather than substance?

    Why should we use a less harsh term to mean “a culture that fosters attitudes and beliefs that make rape more common than it has to be”? What would be accomplished if we called that “the fuzzy bunny culture” instead of “rape culture”?

    As far as your ‘guilty of rape because they hired strippers’, is the same argument that goes on the lines of ‘hookers/whores/strippers cannot be raped’. Please restrain the hatred, it is injurious to society.

    Please retrain your lies about what other posters have said. They are injurious to the discussion here.

    I know I never said anything like “guilty of rape because they hired strippers.” Neither has Q Grrl. Please either directly quote someone in this thread saying that anyone is “guilty of rape because they hired strippers”; or withdraw your claim. If you don’t address this matter, you will no longer be permitted to post on “Alas.”

  20. 220
    Robert says:

    Well, you just spanked me in the global warming argument on CD, so maybe I should be reluctant to wade in here, but…

    I may be misinterpreting Koss, and if I am please correct me. But while her statement doesn’t appear offensive, it does appear to be problematically wrong in its focus.

    The key phrase is “on a continuum with normal male behavior within the culture”. I think the problem is the “within the culture” part. I’m not aware of any cultures where normal male behavior is radically different than normal male behavior in our own culture. It seems to me that Koss should have said “Rape represents an extreme behavior but one that is on a continuum with normal male behavior”. That would be unobjectionable.

    By attempting to tie the behavior to one specific culture, the universality of rape is ignored.

    To use your counterexample, what if I said “Murder represents an extreme, but one that’s on the same spectrum as other aggressive acts in the culture of Portland, Oregon.” Portland, Oregon doesn’t have much to do with the larger question. Now, maybe there are some things about Portland that are uniquely relevant to the question of violence and murder, and maybe its totally valid to analyze those things – but nobody can seriously contend that murder and Portland have some special relationship. Murder happens everywhere. A Portland-specific viewpoint on murder may have some (very narrow) application, but will be a terrible framework from which to study the big picture; any analysis starting from the premise of a unique Portland connection is likely to be nutty.

    There are elements of Western culture, and elements of any culture that relies on patriarchal models, that are undoubtedly connected to the phenomenon of rape. Those connections are worthy studying – and in that sense, talking about “rape culture” makes sense and is a useful construct. What Curious is advancing, I think (its hard to tell for sure) is the idea that its questionable to take that limited legitimacy and try to universalize it. Rape as an extension of normal male sexual aggressiveness doesn’t seem to be a primarily cultural phenomenon.

  21. 221
    Ampersand says:

    The key phrase is “on a continuum with normal male behavior within the culture”. I think the problem is the “within the culture” part. I’m not aware of any cultures where normal male behavior is radically different than normal male behavior in our own culture. It seems to me that Koss should have said “Rape represents an extreme behavior but one that is on a continuum with normal male behavior”. That would be unobjectionable.

    I think it’s likely that Koss would agree with the modified statement you suggest.

    However, Koss’ original statement was made within the context of a peer-reviewed journal, interpreting the results of a study of sexual behavior among college-aged Americans. In that context, I think it’s obviously justifiable (and possibly obligatory) for her to have limited her statement in the way she did.

    Also, I think Curious was saying that the statement was anti-male, not anti-American.

    Finally, although it’s hard to measure, it appears to be true that although rape exists in all cultures, rape is less prevalent in some cultures and subcultures than in others. So the idea that there are cultural and/or local differences in “rape culture” is not outlandish.

  22. 222
    Robert says:

    So the idea that there are cultural and/or local differences in “rape culture” is not outlandish.

    No argument from me.

  23. 223
    RonF says:

    So the idea that there are cultural and/or local differences in “rape culture” is not outlandish.

    For example, the attitudes towards the acceptablility of forced intercourse and the penalties for it are a whole lot different in numerous Middle Eastern/Islamic countries than here in the U.S.

  24. 224
    Tagahanga says:

    This is my first time commenting here (or I believe it is, don’t remember posting here) . . . and I will admit . . . I have not read all of your details . . . but what I find sooo facinating . . . . is that this is continuing – despite various evidence and scientific facts.

    First thing . . . was this rape . . . I don’t . . . possibly, but when the supposed victim was examine, doctors found no evidence of rape . . . plus no DNA evidence of the people she was accusing of rape on, in, or anywhere on her person. Were the doctor’s Duke Alum? Don’t know.

    Second thing . . . the person that was with her performing . . . originally denied that the other girl was raped . . . but later changed her testimony. Why would she change her testi . . . unless she was pressured or paid?

    Third thing . . . one of the key people she is accusing . . . one of the primary ones – whom she stated done several acts on her was only there for nine minutes (approx.). And during that time, the other girl was there. And during the middle of it . . . he stopped the whole thing in order to call a cab from the same room it was happening in. Then during all that . . . commit several acts and get himself cleaned up and walk down a couple of blocks where he was picked up by the cab. All in nine minutes . . . very unlikely. Even if he was a 30 second man . . . for a person his age . . . after the first full climax . . . it would take a couple of minutes to be ready again for the next act . . . not to mention that . . . he was supposedly taking turns with all of his buddies.

    Plus . . . why did they rape her and not her partner she was working with. Is it race . . . I don’t think so . . . I think she agreed to it . . . and got stiffed in the end (I am talking about money . . . to those with a sick mind). And because she was paid, what they agreed to . . . she accused them of rape. Sounds like another Kobe Bryant case . . . but instead of a white girl and a black man . . . it was a black girl and several white men. The girl in the Kobe case got paid . . . why not her. Who cares she destroys their lives and careers . . .

    Thing is . . . I used to live and work in that industry . . . as an entertainer. Believe me . . . guys and girls are willing to go the extra step . . . for some serious extra cash. And with my past association with the industry . . . and familiarity in what usually happens. With the guys . . . they usually ignore it . . . because we are men . . . and we like having sex. Women . . . if they don’t receive their money . . . or the full amount . . . 7 out of 10 (approx.)press charges (mainly assualt – occasionally rape), then they drop the charges after a few months of embarassment of the other person . . . and negotiate a settlement in civil court. Or at least, that how it used to happen approx. 20 years ago. But, don’t get me wrong . . . not all entertainers do this . . . but some do.

    Whether this has happened or not . . . I don’t know . . . I wasn’t there. If she was raped . . . then they should go to jail . . . no doubt. But I find it hard to believe when the accuser also has a record, (or at least I heard . . . no proof).

    As for living in a rape cultured society, which finds rape acceptable . . . I don’t believe it . . . because if it was . . . there would be no laws to prevent rape. Plus, some people who have fetishes like that usually participate in S&M and B&D groups.

    Plus, if I had to compare Male and Female clients . . . (for entertainers) . . . women are vastly more aggressive . . . while men are passive. Experience.

  25. 225
    Q Grrl says:

    Were the doctor’s Duke Alum? Don’t know.

    …snerk…

    It’s a good thing you know so much about the case…

  26. 226
    Q Grrl says:

    Well, this is stunning:

    http://www.wral.com/news/9450634/detail.html

    “He acknowledged the joke, especially given the context of the time, was not funny,” Moneta wrote.

    Moneta said McFadyen accepted responsibility for an error in judgment.

    “I think he learned a valuable lesson in how words can be interpreted and misinterpreted,” Moneta told the AP Thursday evening.

    What part, exactly, was misinterpreted about his email? What part is funny? What part a joke?

    He explicitly said he wanted to masturbate to the skinning and murder of hired female strippers.

    Where, where is the humor?

    [I wonder if I can file a sexual harrassment suit if this guy comes back to Duke. Seems like a hostile work environment to me]

  27. 227
    Jim K says:

    Has anybody heard anything about this story past June? I’m trying to search for updates and have found absolutely nothing on this case. If somebody could post a link to a site who is actively following the case I’d appreciate it.