The "Ransom Notes" Campaign

We have your son.We are destroying his ability for social
interaction and driving him into a life of complete isolation. It’s up to
you now…Asperger’s Syndrome

The NYU Child Study Center has a new public education campaign designed to create awareness of psychiatric disorders. Ads appearing in magazines and on NYC billboards and kiosks are mock ransom notes signed by specific psychiatric disorders: ADHD, Asperger’s Syndrome, autism, bulimia, depression and OCD. Here’s the ad for bulimia (Description: Cut and paste words from magazine text form a ransom note: “We have your daughter. We are forcing her to throw up after every meal she eats. It’s only going to get worse. –Bulimia” Below the note the ad says, “Don’t let a psychiatric disorder take your child” and gives info for the NYU Child Study Center.):

Bulimia ransom note

Text for the other ads reads:

We have your son. We will make sure he will no longer be able to care for himself or interact socially as long as he lives. This is only the beginning…Autism.

We are in possession of your son. We are making him squirm and fidget until he is a detriment to himself and those around him. Ignore this and your kid will pay…ADHD

We have taken your son. We have imprisoned him in a maze of darkness with no hope of ever getting out. Do nothing and see what happens…Depression

We have your daughter. We are making her wash her hands until they are raw, everyday. This is only the beginning…OCD

The NYU Child Study Center, celebrating its tenth year and the relaunch of its public information website AboutOurKids.org, says:

The idea behind the “Ransom Notes” is that, all too often, untreated psychiatric disorders are holding our children hostage. These disorders rob children of the ability to learn, make and keep friends and enjoy life.

“Ransom Notes” may be shocking to some, but so are the statistics: suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people ages 15 to 24, and serious emotional problems affect one out of 10 young people, most of whom do not get help. The strong response to this campaign is evidence that our approach is working. We understand the challenges faced by individuals with these disorders and their families. We hope to both generate a national dialogue that will end the stigma surrounding childhood psychiatric disorders and advance the science, giving children the help they need and deserve. We want this campaign to be a wake up call. Please join the dialogue.

And people are joining the dialogue. The Autistic Self-Advocacy Network (ASAN) has gathered 14 other disability rights organizations and issued a joint letter (.pdf file) calling for withdrawal of the ad campaign. (There’s also a petition for anyone to sign in support of the ASAN joint letter and appeal.) In part, the letter reads:

While the “Ransom Notes” campaign was no doubt a well-intentioned effort to increase awareness and thus support for the disabilities it describes, the means through which it attempts this have the opposite effect. When a child with ADHD is described as “a detriment to himself and those around him,” it hurts the efforts of individuals, parents and families to ensure inclusion and equal access throughout society for people with disabilities. When individuals with diagnoses of autism and Asperger’s Syndrome are told that their capacities for social interaction and independent living are completely destroyed, it hurts their efforts for respect, inclusion, and necessary supports by spreading misleading and inaccurate information about these neurologies. While it is true that there are many difficulties associated with the disabilities you describe, individuals with those diagnostic categories do succeed – not necessarily by becoming indistinguishable from their non-disabled peers – but by finding ways to maximize their unique abilities and potential on their own terms.

Individuals with disabilities are not replacements for normal children that are stolen away by the disability in question. They are whole people, deserving of the same rights, respect, and dignity afforded their peers. Too often, the idea that children with disabilities are less than human lies at the heart of horrific crimes committed against them.

The letter also notes that the ad campaign supports the idea that people with these psychiatric disorders — note that autism and Asperger’s Syndrome are labeled psychiatric disorders here — may be dangerous to others around them.

Does anyone else’s mind jump to Columbine-type scenarios when they see “children” and “hostage” linked? Mine did.

h/t to Stephen Drake at Not Dead Yet

Cross-posted at The Gimp Parade

This entry posted in Disabled Rights & Issues, Fat, fat and more fat, Gender and the Body, Media criticism. Bookmark the permalink. 

56 Responses to The "Ransom Notes" Campaign

  1. 1
    Vidya says:

    These really are awful ads. Not just in execution, but in intent — professionalizing the treatment of childhood disorders, rather than giving families the tools (nutritional knowledge, homoeopathic resources, etc.) to help them help their own children directly.
    And, seriously, if they really want to prevent the consequences of conditions like ADHD and autism, they could have put the money to better use by placing ads which read ‘Vaccination is known to cause these conditions — don’t allow your children to be victims of the medical industrial complex’, or something to that effect.

  2. 2
    NotACookie says:

    A thing I notice is that all of the “ransom notes” present somewhat exaggerated descriptions of the conditions being mentioned. “Detriment to himself and those around him” is a bit over the top for ADHD. The autism one is worse only in degree. In all cases, they’re overhyping the problem to make a point.

    I’m not sure I’m comfortable scaring parents into seeking clinical treatment, though I’d be interested to know how well the campaign works.

  3. 3
    Decnavda says:

    These ads are awful ans I support the campaign to end them.

    But the intent is good. These are real conditions that need to be explained and in some cases treated by scientific medical professionals. Otherwise the blame for resulting problems (from either lack of treatment or just lack of understanding) falls on the individual with the condition or the parents. And it is cruel to mislead people with non-scientific “remidies” such as honeopothy, or prayer, or Scientology or whatever. And in my experience, the professionals are generous with giving patients and parents information about non-medical approaches that work, such as accomodations, behavioral approaches, and in some cases nutritional changes.

    And as to vaccinations: 1. Can you cite the studies linking them to any of these conditions? and 2. I hate having ADD, but if my condition is a byproduct of the eradication of polio and smallpox, it was well worth it.

  4. 4
    Bjartmarr says:

    Decnavda:

    The issue with vaccinations isn’t the vaccines themselves, which are fairly safe. The problem has to do with a preservative (called Thimerosal) that is used to extend the shelf life of certain multi-dose vaccines. There have been allegations that it increases the risk for certain diseases, especially when administered to infants, but to my knowledge no link has yet been proven. Google for Thimerosal and you should be able to find plenty of references.

  5. 5
    Thene says:

    Funny how the only mental disabilities girls get are OCD and bulimia, eh?

    Vidya, Bjartmarr

    Three large-scale controlled observational studies have been reported on this issue; none have found an association between thiomersal-containing vaccines (TCVs) and autism.[11] A study from Denmark noted no decrease in autism rates despite cessation of TCVs[20] and a UK study found that TCVs actually had a protective effect with respect to autism.[21] Because the Danish and UK studies involved only diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTP) or diphtheria-tetanus (DT) vaccines, they are less relevant for the higher thiomersal exposure levels that occurred in the U.S.[11] For the U.S., a study based on the Vaccine Safety Datalink found no association between TCVs and autism.[22] Some smaller studies have also found no association between TCVs and autism[23][24] and a study found no association between thimerosal and the neurological signs of autism.[25] Another smaller study also found a protective effect: it reported a significantly lower prevalence of autism spectrum disorders among children exposed to thimerosal (5.95 per 1,000 versus 8.27 per 1,000).[26]

    That wasn’t hard to find.

    And Vidya, if you can refer me to a double-blind study that found homeopathic remedies are more effective than a placebo by a statistically significant degree, I’d love to read it. Til then, can we stick with the medically tested pills?

  6. 6
    Wicked Child says:

    The vaccination => autism link has been thoroughly disproved. Vaccination does not increase a child’s chances of developing autism. At this point, the people pushing others not to vaccinate their children due to the threat of autism have no excuse.

  7. 7
    outlier says:

    The OCD and, to a lesser extent, the bulimia ads I find less offensive, perhaps because those disorders seem to be experienced that way. (“That way” meaning as uncontrollable compulsions.)

    But characterizing Asperger’s as something that is something that forces a person to act a certain way…or else…is way on the other end of the offensive spectrum. Ick.

  8. Pingback: Not Replacements for Normal Children « Tiny Cat Pants

  9. 8
    sly civilian says:

    gah. this is terrible.

    just for contrast, i came back to minnesota for a bit, and welcoming me in the airport were signs for a children’s hospital, showing active children with disabilities.

    The tagline…

    Pity. 100% Curable.

  10. 9
    Kate Gladstone says:

    The vaccine companies removed Thimerosal from vaccines three years ago. So, Bjartmarr, if Thimerosal in vaccines causes autism, why do one- and two-year-old children still get autism diagnoses? Why hasn’t the diagnosis rate gone down … and why do so many of these kids get diagnosed *before* they get vaccinated? (something which also happened in the Thimerosal era)

  11. 10
    Kay Olson says:

    outlier: The OCD and, to a lesser extent, the bulimia ads I find less offensive, perhaps because those disorders seem to be experienced that way. (”That way” meaning as uncontrollable compulsions.)

    Yeah, I agree. Less offensive. I also find it very troubling that autism and Asperger’s are lumped into “psychiatric disorders” though that’s not unique to this campaign.

    Over at The Gimp Parade, Penny of DisStudies blog comments:

    “My son wasn’t kidnapped. He’s not being tortured or forced to be anything against his nature. Time isn’t running out to rescue him. Such words don’t even belong in a sentence about him. I have every reason to believe that Jake’s precisely who he was always going to be, from the moment of conception, given the parents he’s got, within the possibilities of his place and time. For this campaign to imply otherwise, about any kid that doesn’t conform to a narrow norm, is grotesque.”

  12. 11
    batgirl says:

    In Soviet Russia, bulimia has you.

    I thought we were supposed to get past the whole “people are their disabilities/disorders/etc. thing.” Instead, this ad campaign implies that not only are people defined by these, but the disorder/disability/whatnot owns them! Lovely.

  13. 12
    Sarah says:

    Thank you so much for blogging about this.

  14. 13
    Alison Hymes says:

    I can’t sign the letter because I do not agree that the intentions were good. Can you imagine a campaign like this about any other disability or illness? No, you can’t because we as a society never talk about other disabilities and illnesses this way. And telling parents that their depressed child will never get better unless they go to their center? That’s irresponsible and charlatinish. What if a depressed child reads that and decides they will never feel any better and therefore kills him or herself?

    And medication is not the only way to help kids with these problems, in fact it may be the worst way given the side effects, psychotherapy, play therapy, family systems therapy, wrap around services, all kinds of supports can help. SSRI’s have a black box for good reason.

  15. 14
    Ampersand says:

    Have you seen this Romanian ad for an anti-MS campaign? It’s pretty horrible, in a way that’s similar to the ransom notes campaign, I think.

  16. 15
    Magniloquence says:

    Wow. That’s really awful.

    Having only seen the bulimia one, my thoughts were tentative acceptance. In context, it’s flaws are quite visible…but when I first saw it, I mostly identified with what outlier said about the experience itself – that many people report it feeling like an imposition, like being hostage to something uncontrollable.

    The rest of it, though, is unforgivable.

  17. 16
    Bjartmarr says:

    I’m going to stick my neck out here for a moment, and say that I don’t really understand the strong negative reaction that these ads are getting.

    First off, let me say that I have sympathy for those suffering from the aforementioned afflictions, and I don’t want to instruct them on what is and is not offensive to them. And I get that the wording could have been better in the ADHD and Autism cases, perhaps expressing the problem without implying that those affected are somehow a burden to others or completely unable to function.

    But I get the impression that the problem is deeper than that; that the concept of anthropomorphizing a disease as a malicious individual is somehow offensive, or that viewing somebody suffering from one of the problems as being held hostage by the disease is offensive, and I don’t understand why. In fact, I have even heard depression described similarly by those afflicted, as in “Depression stole 12 years from me.”

    The ads, of course, aren’t entirely accurate — few ads are. But the ads are meant to grab your attention (as all good advertising does), and in an advertising campaign it doesn’t seem unreasonable to trade the crystal-clarity of the message for a little attention, as long as the message mostly gets through. The message, in this case, being “If your kid has a problem, don’t just ignore it; get them some help!” — which, it seems to me, is an appropriate message.

    As a post-script, I notice that some posters here have taken the ads to imply that medication must be used to treat the problems. I don’t see that as being part of the ads’ message, and I certainly wouldn’t advocate a heavy-handed approach to medication — so please don’t take that impression from my post.

  18. 17
    Penny says:

    I don’t think the campaign’s message is “If your kid has a problem, get help.” It’s “Your kid isn’t even your real kid if they’re autistic (or learning disabled or obsessive-compulsive, etc.). Rather than loving the kid you’ve got, you should feel robbed, threatened, and desperate.” Not so appropriate; not even responsible, if you realize the kids themselves will see these ads. What’s the message to them?

  19. 18
    Daran says:

    First off, let me say that I have sympathy for those suffering from the aforementioned afflictions…

    I’m an Aspie. It’s not something I’ve got. It’s who I am. I’m neither suffering nor afflicted, unless it’s by the attitudes of others who expect me to be someone I’m not.

    …If your kid has a problem, don’t just ignore it; get them some help!…

    If you have a problem, don’t just ignore it; get yourself some education.

  20. 19
    Mandolin says:

    These ads are clearly inappropriate for Asperger’s and Autism.

    It’s interesting that people think the ads’ phrasing is better for bulimia — because my bulimia felt nothing like an external imposition — at least not from a disease. It felt like an imposition from the culture, yes, from my expectations of myself, yes. Being bulimic was honestly a very rational decision, though certainly a problematic one. (And yes, I did become compulsive about it, but it still didn’t feel like ‘bulimia’ was doing anything to me. I was performing bulimia, and expectations about appearance were holding me hostage.)

    On the other hand, if this had been made about depression or social anxiety, I’d be all there with the thinking the phrasing described my perception of those illnesses. Particularly the social anxiety I’ve developed in the past year. It feels alien from me, and it feels like it holds me hostage to these bizarre panic feelings.

  21. 20
    imfunnytoo says:

    Any campaign that gives mileage to the idea that instead of our impairments *being* us…we’re endangered and warped by them…

    It’s got to go.

  22. 21
    Mandolin says:

    Well, I don’t know. I’m not sure the model of mental illness being an imposition is *entirely* incorrect, for real mental illnesses. My depression does feel to me more analogous to a physical illness — something that occurs, and interferes with me being me.

    Autism and Asperger’s aren’t mental illnesses like depression. I don’t remember the terminology, but I mean — really different thing. Which is why the “search for a cure” confuses the heck out of me. How can you *cure* autism or asperger’s?

  23. 22
    Penny says:

    I respect that the experience of depression (or anxiety, or other conditions like those) often feels like an interruption, an interference, an oppression, something relentless and enveloping–generations of first-hand accounts say so, some of them quite eloquently. Generations of first-hand accounts also vary widely enough that I have to conclude there’s a range of experiences within each diagnostic category, all valid possibilities.

    But this campaign is targeting parents, with only one melodramatic, distorted view of the experience–claiming expertise about kids, including those who can’t possibly counter the message in their own words. It’s setting the diagnosis as the reason for a kid being marginalized, instead of the social factors that unfairly exclude and discriminate. Some parents resist such messages easily, but others are vulnerable, and what parents come to believe will inevitably affect their kids’ self-image. It’s not hard to imagine that this campaign will encourage some parents to seek dangerous treatments, or shun appropriate care, with the urgent mentality of “rescue.”

  24. 23
    Sailorman says:

    I dunno.

    Do I care about the depressed kid who reads the ad and thinks it describes her? Sure. But I ALSO care about the depressed kid whose parents have no fucking clue he’s depressed, and whose parents get him help in response to the ad.

    I notice that there’s not a whole lot of discussion here about the second kid. That seems strangely polarized in the opposite direction, and doesn’t make any sense to me.

  25. 24
    Ampersand says:

    Sailorman, I don’t think anyone’s opposed to the idea of an advertising campaign to inform parents of that second kid. But it’s not necessary for it to be this advertising campaign; this isn’t the only possible approach an ad campaign can take.

  26. 25
    Kate Gladstone says:

    If the parents “have no clue” to identify the kid’s behavior as depression/Asperger’s/ADHD/____[fill in the blank]____ , just where in a “Ransom Notes” ad would they get that clue?

  27. 26
    Alison Hymes says:

    Sailorman, if a kid’s parents have no clue he or she is depressed, this ad campaign isn’t going to reach them at all or teach them anything. They won’t think it applies to their kid. Far more useful would be a detailed description of the many ways depression can manifest in young people so those parents might get a clue.

  28. 27
    Sailorman says:

    Far more useful would be a detailed description of the many ways depression can manifest in young people so those parents might get a clue.

    And if that worked better, I’d be all for it. Does anyone really think that the target audience of these ads would sit and read a detailed description of depression? I don’t.

    For example, I know a variety of people who are or have been bulemic. I consider it vastly more important to help those people–or people like them–NOT be bulemic, than to worry all that much about whether a particular ad is ‘talking about the person as a disease’ etc… unless that message interferes with the goal of helping bulemic people.

    There is probably always going to be a balance between publicizing the existence of a disease or condition for the putative benefit of those that are not aware or in treatment; and having a negative effect on those who already are aware or in treatment. I suspect there will never be a situation where both sides are entirely happy.

    But it’s a balance, right? So the issue of whether the ads are a good thing, or at the right balance point, can only be addressed by talking BOTH about the negative aspects of the ads, AND the positive aspects of the ads. or so it seems to me, at least.

  29. 28
    Ampersand says:

    There is probably always going to be a balance between publicizing the existence of a disease or condition for the putative benefit of those that are not aware or in treatment; and having a negative effect on those who already are aware or in treatment.

    Why?

    Yes, in life, there are often trade-offs. There is a logical trade-off between low taxes and high levels of government services, for instance; there’s a structural reason we can’t have both at once.

    Your argument makes sense only if there’s a structural reason that we can’t have an ad awareness campaign regarding (say) autism that doesn’t use factually-dubious scare tactics. I don’t see any reason to think that trade-off exists. It’s easy to imagine ads that give two or three lines of basic information in big print (just like these ads do) without resorting to scare tactics.

  30. 29
    Robert says:

    I think Sailorman means that it’s very difficult to make a compelling and informative campaign that doesn’t also have the potential to anger or upset people who already have the disease, or advocates thereof, or (more broadly) disability/disease activists.

    It’s not that you cannot make a campaign which will meet with the approval of everybody; it’s that such a campaign is not likely to be very effective with the larger population. And it’s not that you cannot make a compelling campaign; it’s that such a campaign is likely to include elements which will tick SOMEBODY off.

    So it’s a balancing act.

    It’s easy to imagine ads that give two or three lines of basic information in big print (just like these ads do) without resorting to scare tactics.

    Absolutely. And such a campaign would be completely ineffective. There’s a reason that Madison Avenue doesn’t advertise the new Toyotas with three lines of big black text detailing the performance specs of the new engine. If they did, in order to be effective the two or three lines of text would have to use really loaded words or imagery – and then you’re back to ticking people off. (“Why these loaded words!?!”)

  31. 30
    Bjartmarr says:

    Does anybody else see a parallel between this discussion and the the one we had a while back about the cartoon mocking choice for men? The authors, in both cases, could have expressed themselves accurately in a couple of matter-of-fact sentences, but instead chose to make an imperfect analogy in order to get attention.

    Amp, I’m having a hard time imagining an ad that would draw attention as effectively as these ads do, convey a sense of urgency (which may be inappropriate for things like Aspergers, but seem entirely appropriate for e.g. depression), but wouldn’t cause an inappropriate reaction in parents given to melodrama, and also wouldn’t be troubling to kids with the problems who might read the ads. Maybe this means that I’m just unimaginative when it comes to advertising. That wouldn’t surprise me. (Of course, the wording does need to be changed for several of the ads. But the concept still seems sound.)

    Perhaps the accusations of scare tactics for some of the ads are accurate. But they seem a little overblown in the cases of bulimia, OCD, or depression. Sure, the ads present the problems as kidnapping situations, but they are not meant to be taken literally. Is anybody going to read these and call the police to report a kidnapping? Of course, some parents are going to read the ads and act inappropriately, but I think that could be said for any advertising campaign. The phone number for the NYU Child Study center is printed at the bottom of every ad; clearly the ads are urging parents to call that number. Of course some parents are going to react inappropriately, but I don’t see how that can be avoided.

  32. 31
    Bjartmarr says:

    @Kate from #10:
    Bjartmarr, if Thimerosal in vaccines causes autism, why do one- and two-year-old children still get autism diagnoses?

    I don’t know. I’m absolutely unqualified to speak on the subject. You should ask someone else.

    If you’ll re-read my comment, you’ll notice that I didn’t assert that Thimerosal causes autism. I stand behind everything I wrote.

  33. 32
    Penny says:

    One way to get a better, more truthful, less offensive ad campaign would be to include people with autism, depression, OCD, eating disorders, etc., in the process of crafting the ads. That wasn’t done in this case, by all accounts–the ads were tested in focus groups that included mothers of children with these diagnoses, but not adults with these diagnoses, who might have disputed the depiction of their own lives as perpetually trapped or tragic. “Nothing about us without us” isn’t just a disability-rights slogan, it’s a good policy that wasn’t followed in this case.

    Every year, autistic kids are killed because their parents have been told that a “cure” is the only acceptable outcome for their kids, by any means necessary, the sooner the better. These ads won’t do a thing to stop that death toll.

  34. 33
    Radfem says:

    These ads are so offensive on their face that even the best intentions don’t change that and judging by the content, I’d question where those “intentions” were actually rooted from.

    Autism and Aspergers have got to be two of the most misunderstood and misrepresented conditions as these ads show and I don’t consider it a psychiatric condition or illness at all either. They’re both spectrums. Don’t know what causes it and I think that’s true with the scientists. When considering any ties to vaccines, you also have to answer the questions as some have that maybe it’s not the condition that’s increasing but the diagnosing of it. I’m not sure in my family’s case, a diagnosis would have been made involving my niece in the 1970s for example, let alone earlier.

    Both of them have been called “cognitive disorders” by doctors who were trying to diagnose my niece. She was misdiagnosed with depression and given anti-depressives including Prozac that haven’t really been tested on kids. In her, they triggered OCD for her. I thought she might have had epilepsy because even as a child, she had lapses in concentration. It took years for her to be diagnosed with what was called “mild” autism.

    She socially interacts. She takes care of herself. She’s happy with who she is and what’s she’s doing and according to this ad, she can’t be or isn’t allowed to be. And apparently, she’s not even allowed to decide what she wants to be if it flies on the face of what is written about autism.

    She’s not the only autistic person who does either of these things. As for those who can’t and I have friends whose kids can’t do one or both, is this about what is really “best” for them or how close they are to the “norm”? And there’s more to look at than what’s in that description. A lot more.

    The above description is a stereotype about autism for example based on a “normal” person’s perceptions of what the inner thought processes are doing, perceiving or thinking and using stereotypes to sell “good intentions” is bad in my opinion. I think that’s also offensive.

    Maybe in the past, she wouldn’t have gotten that diagnosis and she’d be one of the unknown cases unlike today.

    Also, if you’re concerned about medical conditions like depression (which is a physical, not mental in my opinion because for one thing, the symptomology is often in the body too) being diagnosed, there’s other ways to raise awareness than this way, i.e. a list of behaviors or symptoms though doing this is problemic in some cases because the symptoms posted as “warning signs” for diseases (of which heart disease is a great example) tend to be one-size-fits-all and that’s usually a White able-bodied, straight middle-class boy or man.

    But this just stinks doing what these folks are doing. I really wish they wouldn’t.

  35. 34
    Radfem says:

    We have your daughter. We are making her wash her hands until they are raw, everyday. This is only the beginning…OCD,

    The offensiveness of the ads aside, what do you do if your child has OCD but isn’t a compulsive handwasher? This condition comes in different forms as well, it should be diagnosed as early as possible but how does promoting again, a stereotype of OCD, something that might apply in a few cases but not many others, help do this?

  36. 35
    Mandolin says:

    “Don’t know what causes it and I think that’s true with the scientists.”

    This is true, but when I was last looking into it, there was some research suggesting that people with autism or asperger’s syndrome show a slightly different development of some brain structures than neurotypical people.

  37. 36
    Dianne says:

    A cure for Asperger’s/autism may or may not be plausible or desirable, but ignoring it and hoping it’ll go away is a good way to drive people with AS into depression and suicidal ideation. Because, bluntly, the average neurotypical does not, will not, and possibly can not react to someone with AS in a way that is not going to make them depressed. At least, I don’t know any untreated adult Aspies who haven’t experienced severe depression.

  38. 37
    Radfem says:

    Who said anything about ignoring them and hoping it will go away? Again, there’s other ways to communicate information about both autism and Asperger’s to parents than this ad campaign.

    The thing is, that you might know people with Asperger’s because you know they were diagnosed, but there may be others out there who you don’t know whether they were or weren’t. There’s often this assumption too that you’ll know or recognize someone with autism or Asperger’s on sight because of the way they’ve been portrayed in the media inluding television and films. Which is how they’re being portrayed in these ads too.

  39. 38
    Dianne says:

    The thing is, that you might know people with Asperger’s because you know they were diagnosed, but there may be others out there who you don’t know whether they were or weren’t.

    Or I might be talking about my personal experience with (untreated) AS.

  40. 39
    Radfem says:

    That too. Point taken.

  41. 40
    Sarah says:

    I think it’s a bit of an overgeneralization to say that ALL untreated autistic spectrum folk have serious problems. Some are able to adapt quite well without medications. I know, I have some in my family. (And heck, the wealthiest person in the world supposedly has AS.) I myself have never had much trouble with depression, though I was mistakenly diagnosed as depressed as an adolescent. (I do take medications, but more for anxiety and ADD-type issues.) I think it’s dangerous to assume that all people with condition x need “treatment”–especially when no proven treatment exists. These ads just add hysteria to the discourse.

  42. 41
    Daran says:

    A cure for Asperger’s/autism may or may not be plausible or desirable, but ignoring it and hoping it’ll go away is a good way to drive people with AS into depression and suicidal ideation. Because, bluntly, the average neurotypical does not, will not, and possibly can not react to someone with AS in a way that is not going to make them depressed. At least, I don’t know any untreated adult Aspies who haven’t experienced severe depression.

    What do you mean by “treat” in this context?

    How does the following sound: “A cure for homosexuality/lesbianism may or may not be plausible or desirable, but ignoring it and hoping it’ll go away is a good way to drive people with LGBT into depression and suicidal ideation. Because bluntly, the average heterosexual does not, will not, and possibly can not react to someone with homosexuality in a way that is not going to make them depressed. At least, I don’t know any untreated adult homosexuals who haven’t experienced severe depression”?

    Obviously, not everything that could fall under the rubric of medical “treatment” is necessarily objectionable, but, given the history of attempts to “treat” homosexuality, you must understand how it sounds.

  43. 42
    Daran says:

    Radfem:

    I’m not sure in my family’s case, a diagnosis would have been made involving my niece in the 1970s for example, let alone earlier.

    Asperger described the condition in the 1940s, but it wasn’t widely recognised, or even named after him, until 1980.

    Both of them have been called “cognitive disorders” by doctors who were trying to diagnose my niece.

    I do not agree that Asperger’s is a cognitive disorder. Several months ago I was given a test designed to reveal Aspergers. My score in each of the cognitive tasks was well above average, with the exception of a test involving spotting the missing elements from a series of (unrelated) pictures (slightly above average) and another in which I had to arrange sets of four similar pictures showing human activity into an order which told a story. I was abysmal at that one.

    So, good at some cognitive tasks, and not at others. If that’s a “cognitive disorder” then who isn’t disordered?

    As for autism? I don’t know. I’m undecided whether there is a difference between autism and Asperger’s.

    I thought she might have had epilepsy because even as a child, she had lapses in concentration.

    Chances are she was concentrating intensely on something, possibly internal, to the exclusion of everything else.

  44. 43
    Daran says:

    Mandolin:

    Well, I don’t know. I’m not sure the model of mental illness being an imposition is *entirely* incorrect, for real mental illnesses. My depression does feel to me more analogous to a physical illness — something that occurs, and interferes with me being me.

    Mine did not. Mine was the perfectly normal reaction of someone whose llife was impossible, and who could see absolutely no way out. I felt like I was on the wrong planet, but I never felt like I wasn’t me.

    Penny:

    Generations of first-hand accounts also vary widely enough that I have to conclude there’s a range of experiences within each diagnostic category, all valid possibilities.

    I agree.

  45. 44
    mythago says:

    There is a difference between autism and Asperger’s, speaking as a person with the latter who has a brother with the former. And of course those are ‘spectrum’ disorders; people vary widely. (As Daran probably knows, it’s only in the last few years that Asperger’s has been widely recognized in girls, because it often presents differently and is masked by the higher level of social conditioning girls get. You miss a lot of diagnoses if your yardstick is “How much does he act like Bill Gates?”)

    A cure for Asperger’s/autism may or may not be plausible or desirable

    And doesn’t, currently, exist.

    I am really not buying the “oh, you’re going to piss off somebody anyway, so it’s all good” argument. That’s just a backdoor way of saying that everybody who criticizes the ads is all PC and would be whining if they didn’t something different.

    I can see why the ad makers thought this would be a good idea for some problems–like bulimia–that are behavioral problems that have immediate and dangerous effects and can be treated. (As well, some of those diseases, like anorexia, can be the result of dysfunctional family problems and not merely ‘something is wrong with your kid’.) But suggesting that ADHD, for example, is some kind of scary psychiatric disorder akin to a murderous kidnapper is just, what’s the word I’m looking for? Shitty.

  46. 45
    Ampersand says:

    Several months ago I was given a test designed to reveal Aspergers. My score in each of the cognitive tasks was well above average, with the exception of a test involving spotting the missing elements from a series of (unrelated) pictures (slightly above average) and another in which I had to arrange sets of four similar pictures showing human activity into an order which told a story. I was abysmal at that one.

    Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but is putting pictures in order to tell a story unusually difficult for people with Asperger’s?

    (That just got my attention because putting pictures in order to tell a story is the main thing cartoonists do.)

  47. 46
    Radfem says:

    I remember that test. I took a bunch of them when I was 11. I did well, because I was writing fiction since I was a kid and to me, it felt more like an extension of that. Trying to create a story and then putting them in order. There were a couple tests that I didn’t do well in, more spatial stuff. Part of the reason may have been b/c I was dragged out of a classroom party for the testing.

    Thanks for your post, Daren. My niece was considered for both. I made the reference to the 1970s is because even with more information on autism, it still look until she was about pre-teen/early teen for a diagnosis of what they called a “mild” manifestation whatever that meant. It was a long process.

  48. 47
    Daran says:

    Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but is putting pictures in order to tell a story unusually difficult for people with Asperger’s?

    (That just got my attention because putting pictures in order to tell a story is the main thing cartoonists do.)

    Presumably a cartoonist already knows the story, and creates pictures and puts them in the correct order, to tell it.

    The test was: given four pictures depicting the same scene at different timepoints, to figure out out the story, and thus put the pictures into the correct sequence. There were no textual clues and the pictures were very simple line drawings with little detail, but sufficient to recognise what was shown, and again presumably to recognise the body language of the individuals depicted. For example, one card showed two people sitting in the back of a car together.. Another showed the same people sitting in the back of the car but further apart. Did they start out apart, but move together, or did they start out together then move apart? Presumably there were other clues as to what was going on in those pictures or the other two in the set, but I didn’t figure that one out.

    As far as I remember, all of the scenes depicted people interacting, but I’m not sure because I don’t remember all of them.

    Apparently, yes, that is a test Aspies typically do badly on.

    The other test I remarked on – spotting things missing from pictures – is one that Aspies typically score lower at than in their other tasks, not necessarily lower than neurotypicals. So my slightly above average performance was still characteristic of Asperger’s, given my well above average score in the other tests.

  49. 48
    Dianne says:

    What do you mean by “treat” in this context?

    Teach. Things like how to read people’s faces and know what they are feeling*. Or how to avoid starting flame wars in real life. What to expect and not expect from neurotypicals. What AS is and what changes it produces in the brain. Find out what their abilities are and counsel them on how to use their strengths to overcome their weaknesses. (For example: Can’t read emotions instinctively but good at memorizing patterns? Look at a bunch of pictures and learn how to do it on the intellectual level, using the good pattern recognition ability to negate the poor intuitive understanding of others’ feelings.) “Treat” doesn’t have to imply trying to turn people into neurotypicals.

    *I’ve heard it claimed that someone (maybe at MIT?) is working on a prosthesis which is basically a small computer that scans people’s faces and determines their probable emotions based on facial clues, then displays the results for the person wearing it. It’s supposed to be small enough to hide in one’s glasses. I’d love something like that since I think that it’s probably hopeless for me to try to learn to read people at my age. Or maybe I’m just being lazy. I have figured out some patterns. For example, if you simply pause for a moment after someone finishes talking, they’ll often start talking again, sometimes bringing out thoughts or feelings not evident in the original statement. This can be quite useful, although I do worry about whether it is intrusive in some way. Comments, anyone?

  50. 49
    Dianne says:

    You miss a lot of diagnoses if your yardstick is “How much does he act like Bill Gates?”)

    I don’t know Bill Gates and I know no details of his mental state or how he performs on standard tests. But I don’t think that he’s a good example of a “typical” Aspie. He clearly has learned some way of coping with people and maybe even enjoying it since he runs a major corporation and spends his spare time playing philanthropist. The moral, perhaps, being “it can be done”, but it doesn’t help anyone with AS to simply tell them that they have no problems because Bill Gates is successful.

    Not that anyone was doing that, but it’s all too easy for people to make that jump. I don’t particularly like this campaign either and the language for ADHD and autism is particularly over the top, but I also strongly dislike the romantization that I’ve seen people put on mental illnesses. Yes, some people who are depressed make wonderful art and maybe their art wouldn’t have been as good if they hadn’t experienced the depression. That doesn’t mean that depression is a wonderful thing to experience and all depressed people are simply honing their art. Aspies can succeed quite well in life and the “abnormal” arrangement of the brain may be helpful in some ways. That doesn’t make it fun to deal with being a chronic outcast from preschool and on throughout life.

  51. 50
    Paul R says:

    Daran:

    From your point of view (and I’m not suggesting that you are the spokesman for the entire Aspie community), should Asperger’s be looked at as being like left-handedness (i.e. a “normal” condition that may cause some inconvenience in certain situations, as opposed to an “illness” that must be “treated”)?

  52. Pingback: Alas, a blog » Blog Archive » “Ransom notes” ad campaign ends

  53. 51
    Z says:

    As a person who has suffered from severe depression. It is exactly like being held hostage or being kidnapped or held against your will and no matter how hard you fight to escape you can’t. And you can’t escape it on your own and if you try it just worse and darker and darker. Somebody needs to come in a “rescue” you. Either by showing you that you have a problem so that you can get help yourself or by forcing help on you.

    People ignore depression in children because they think its a phase, or the child is bad or willy being the way they are. You cannot help it and you cannot “Get over it” or “Snap out of it” and it just festers and gets worse. YOu don’t even know how many people consider Depression something not serious and just the curse of a weak minded or ‘bad’ or ‘defective’ person. So offering these people nutrtional information, etc isn’t going to cut it.

    My Depression is a disorder. Its not normal and I won’t normalize it. I don’t understand the want to normalize everything. Its not me. A child with Austism is not normal . They need assistance and help. I am not depression and depression isn’t me. Austism or Asperger isn’t the child its what the child has and what it may cause them to . A child with ADHD is not ADHD. ADHD is something the child has. Left untreated and ignored these thigns can lead to a hard life for children. They have to have to be given special care to manage the part that is inhibiting and nurture to part that is advantage.

    My cousin has ADHD and when he wasn’t treated he was detrimental to everyone around him and himself because he couldn’t control himself. He was disruptive, his education suffered, his social interaction ssuffered because no one wanted to be around him. He would break stuff and hurt people because he couldn’t control his hyperactivity and his mother thought he was just “bad” and basically ignored the fact he had a medical problem. But he was in pain because he didn’t have any help and until he did he was a miserable child and made people around him frustrated. With help he was able to channel his energy.

    I just don’t see the big deal about that ads. They take an extreme in order to push you to do something. Thats the whole point.

  54. 52
    Mandolin says:

    Z,

    Your experience of depression (which is similar to mine) is not everyone’s. So, even though you are a depression sufferer, it would behoove you to listen to other people who share the problem.

  55. 53
    Alison Hymes says:

    I have kidney failure. It causes depression in 60% of people who have it. No one can “rescue” me from my kidney failure caused depression and meds. don’t work. Luckily for me, I have learned how to cope with depression through years of psychotherapy because I had depression before I ever had kidney failure starting as a young person. Forced treatment made my depression much worsed, medication has never helped my depression and I’ve tried all the ones they’ve got. But learning coping mechanisms and acceptance have enabled me to survive and even thrive despite bouts of severe depression.

    Lots of folks don’t know they have kidney failure by the way, should we start a campaign to tell them their kidneys may have been kidnapped by disease without teaching them any of the warning signs of kidney failure? Would that be helpful?

  56. 54
    Daran says:

    From your point of view (and I’m not suggesting that you are the spokesman for the entire Aspie community), should Asperger’s be looked at as being like left-handedness (i.e. a “normal” condition that may cause some inconvenience in certain situations, as opposed to an “illness” that must be “treated”)?

    Yes.