Samhita at Feministing links to this Salon article criticizing pop star Gwen Stefani for hiring four Asian women to follow her around. The article’s subtitle neatly sums up its point: “Gwen Stefani neuters Japanese street fashion to create spring’s must-have accessory: Giggling geisha!” From the article:
Real harajuku girls are just the funky dressers who hang out in the Japanese shopping district of Harajuku. To the uninitiated, harajuku style can look like what might happen if a 5-year-old girl jacked up on liquor and goofballs decided to become a stylist. Layering is important, as is the mix of seemingly disparate styles and colors. Vintage couture can be mixed with traditional Japanese costumes, thrift-store classics, Lolita-esque flourishes and cyber-punk accessories. In a culture where the dreaded “salary man/woman” office worker is a fate to be avoided for this never-wanna-grow-up generation, harajuku style can look as radical as punk rockers first looked on London’s King Road or how pale-faced Goths silently sweating in their widows weeds look in cheerful sunny suburbs. […]
Stefani fawns over harajuku style in her lyrics, but her appropriation of this subculture makes about as much sense as the Gap selling Anarchy T-shirts; she’s swallowed a subversive youth culture in Japan and barfed up another image of submissive giggling Asian women. While aping a style that’s suppose to be about individuality and personal expression, Stefani ends up being the only one who stands out.
The writer’s critique of Stefani seems pretty on-target. The description of harajuku fashion made me curious, so I googled and found some photo galleries: here, here, here, here, and here. The girls seem to be very creative and having a lot of gothy fun. Even the “sexy” outfits seem more like satire or appropriation than like dressing up to attract boys, and there’s a lot of wit going into the outfits. (There’s also some stuff that’s disturbing – a couple of photos I saw showed girls who had made themselves up to look as if they’d been beat up, or dressed like Nazis, etc..)
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I have no idea where to start on the feminist implications of sex, culture and Japanese school girls. Or Japanese men’s ideas about Japanese schoolgirls. Or even just certain Japanese ideas about sex in general.
Oh, come on – yes, Gwen Stefani is taking a subculture and misrepresenting it – that’s what always happens when you are dealing with popculture. No Doubt started as a brilliant ska band, but they became mainstream, and in the process left behind their roots.
I can’t really see any problem in what Stefani is doing, as long as she doesn’t try to pretend that this is really representive of the subculture, and in the interviews I’ve heard her in, she has never said anything like that (as a matter of fact, she has more than once commented on feeling ridicullous because of it all).
There are other issues here, as Jasper alludes to, but that’s not really unique about Stefani’s videos.
They’re drag queens. But female underneath.
Consider me impressed. I didn’t even know this existed…
It’s not just the appropriation of another culture, it’s particularly galling that a white woman is taking a rebellious female subculture and misrepresenting it to gain her own non-white female admirers. The first time I saw this, the message came across loud and clear–Stefani is becoming an honorary man by having silent female admirers. It might be an effective way to keep her position as a rock star, but it’s also offensive.
I find it interesting that the Salon article came out five days before the Yale Daily News article highlighting the connection between Asian fetishism and crimes against women of that demographic. Many of the victims were targeted out of a belief that, because of their culture/ethnicity, they would be submissive. When they show signs that they are anything but, there is reprisal.
I understand that pop culture “events” should be taken lightly in most cases but in this one I think that’s impossible. If she were a male artist who was paying an entourage of mute Geishas, the outrage would be more pronounced. What she is doing is not only misogynistic and perverse, it sucks the marrow out of the very institution she’s claiming to honor: the willfully independent harajuku girls.
I read this on Salon the day it came out, and I remember feeling a bit sad that it appears these girls are objectified. But I’m sure Gwen didn’t think about it at that level – she probably felt some oneness with these girls, a kind of punked-out, funky-dressed, over-the-top sisterhood, and that’s it. And she wanted to incorporate their style into her first solo tour, because they (the harajuku girls) are so far removed from that whitewashed, suburban, Orange County feel we’ve associated Gwen and No Doubt with for years.
I’m Asian, and I’m really not that offended by the whole Gwen thing. And I think Kristjan is right – there’s a bigger issue here that’s creepier. What’s more funky to me is the whole Japanese idea of the “slutty schoolgirl,” and the whole juxtaposition of barely legal innocence and sexuality. If anything, Japanese men themselves turn their own women into fetish objects.
But then again, how is that different from American culture? We do the same damn thing.
So, would this be a harajuku hijack?
I don’t like it. That Stefani nevers seems to acknowledge their presence makes “her” Harajuku girls human accessories. That they’re cute, or that the subculture they hail from is interesting, doesn’t change the exploitation.
Lauren, she acknowledges them in interviews, and in”If I was a Rich Girl” she directly refers to them (though in a way that make them sound like her servants/accessories). The “Hollaback Girls” video starts with her taking a photo of them. However there is no doubt who is the main person in all her videos – Gwen Stefani.
I note with interest that in “Hollaback Girls”, the Japanese girls are dressed much more in an American street style (or at least what is percepted as such in Europe), and much less in the schoolgirl fashion.
Well, I don’t know about that: I saw her being interviewed on a TV programme here in the UK, and that was not my impression at all. What I saw was her trying to come across as some sort of “artiste” and using their presence as in some way validating that.
Actually, Stefani came across as pathetically affected, and it did seem to me that the Japanese women were being used as mere props in order to boost Stefani’s own image.
The whole thing was just weird and creepy. There was no “sisterhood” vibe going on, that’s for sure.
After watching the video, it seems to me that she’s also trying to ride the lesbian chic pop vibe. … unless the Harajuku girls are running their hands over her crotch for other reasons?
I also found the use of Japanese girls in those videos a bit weird. But then, the amount of money that must have gone in those videos is rather creepy already. It’s all so overdone. Pimp-style excess. Like lots of other videos, ok, but I mean, can you count the levels of irony in a millionaire pop star singing ‘if I was a rich girl’ in a video packed with elaborate recreations of pirate ships and hundreds of extras and dancers? Judging by her definition for ‘rich’, if she was a rich girl, she’d have shot the video in space.
hisashiburi– long time indeed since i last posted.
i gather from the pictures that what is erroneously being denominated “harajuku girls” refers to what over here we know as bijuaru kei or “visual types”, a local spin-off of the glam rock industry which is very much alive over here (btw one of my acquaintances happens to be an aspiring singer in one of such bands, but let’s just leave that neta for some other occasion)
harajuku is a much more diverse area– indeed, some of these boys and girls would balk at the idea that frilly dressed victorian look-alikes such as gosu rori (gothic lolitas) have in any way anything to do with the visual types, b-boys or dandy-esque ura-hara types
>What’s more funky to me is the whole Japanese idea of the “slutty schoolgirl,”? and the whole juxtaposition of barely legal innocence and sexuality. If anything, Japanese men themselves turn their own women into fetish objects.
actually, not less funky than virgin women giving birth to gods.
one does not cancel the other does it? if anything, discrimination is redoubled– redoubled-otherness defined as woman, as oriental, as “deviant” from puritanical amerikan values. and what about the stereotypical vision of “all Japanese men are women haters” or “all Japanese women are slaves”?
not to in any way dismiss your honest concerns on the engrained discriminatory culture(s) of Japanese society.
greetings from your correspondent.
Speaking of objectification….
In the Harajuku district, many shopkeepers hire black men to just stand in front of stores, to give them an “urban American ” look.
I love it–someone started a blog advocating to free the Gwenihana Four.
I like this fashion its awesome! i cant wait till i go to japan i wanna dress up like that! muahahahaha and Gwen Stefani is kool! her best song in my opinion is Harajuku Girls! ^_^
Konnichiwa. Watashi wa no namae wa Meygan dess. Ja ne.
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Well, honestly, I don’t think that this kind of objectification is anything new. It’s another example of the music industry making a clever move to utilize a guaranteed pop success (Gwen) to create an image that is fresh and exciting (if only to the 14-17 yr old US and UK girls it’s aimed at). Of course its all about the money, and the lesbian overtones implied in her videos are to draw in a male interest of a similar age group. Since nu-punk and sk8r culture proved so successful among wannabe disillusuioned teens, record companies had to find a new culture for the next generation. In the past few years, the 10 and 11 year olds of the UK and USA have been watching Anime, and Japanese culture has begun to seep into their lives (Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh/Jet Set Radio). The record companies may be evil, but they’re not stupid, by taking advantage of this new Wannabe-Japanese culture inherent in those children (who are now 14 and 15 years old), they can strike when they have access to more disposable income than they will for a long time. Credit to Stefani though, it’s working for her, she’s a pop-princess and getting more famous than she did with No Doubt. I just hope she brings out something a little more credible, I’ve wanted to her release a great song since the days of Hellagood and Don’t Speak. I’ll be back.
P.S. I’ve seen some of the REAL Harajuku girls, I wanna go to Tokyo!
MAX, 17, UK.
By the way, the song “If I Was A Rich Girl” is a cover of a reggae standard, borrowed from “Fiddler On the Roof.”
And if you know anything about the women in reggae and the money those artists don’t get, it’s ironic that Stefani is singing the rich girl bullshit at all. It’s aiming for tonuge-in-cheek but misses the mark.
Get real — she is rich and it ain’t cute.
Has anyone noticed the dominating hold she has over the girls? she claims ownership of them, dresses them up and gives them names (love, angel, music & baby).
I was under the idea that they were her posse, not the newest version of chihuahua. All she needs now is a collar and chain….
Ok, let’s not get stupid with this. What Gwen is doing, is the same thing Hollywood would have done if they had grasped it before she did. Remeber, not everyone in America knew what a “valley girl” was before the song (Valley Girl) came out and they started popping up in almost every 80’s movie. No one really caught onto a particular dance until they saw Madonna’s “Vouge” video. Hell, even MC Hammer revived parachute pants in the early 90’s. Relax and just be glad that Gwen’s not trying to revive the “heroin model” look again.
And what makes you think we wouldn’t be equally critical of Hollywood latching onto yet another “exotic” (gag) fashion and offering it up to whet our jaded appetites for the new and “different”?
This is in no way the same as Moon Zappa doing a Valley Girl accent: Valley Girls generally being white, middle-class American (ie “privileged”) types. This is a privileged American white woman capitalising on a load of ignorant, sexist stereotypes about the “East” in general and “exotic, submissive Oriental women” in particular. It’s also about–yet again–a celeb from the dominant group using non-dominant subcultures to boost her own degree of coolness. It’s appropriation and cultural plundering, and it’s frankly nauseating.
STEFANI PISSES ME OFF!!!! As soon as I saw her video for rich girl I had to leave the room, she’s giving japanese fashion such a bad name…”Ill dress them up and give them names” wtf?? really shes the one who needs a wardrobe change…..Ive been an egg (japanese influenced) for 4 years now and the last thing I want is for her to drain any originality out of it. What happens when an actually japanese influenced band is created? Will it just be considered a knock off from stefani? i friggin hope not. And she admits to feeling stupid sometimes about starting this, thats not what I call dedication. I think she should have stuck with no Doubt or just drop out of the ring.
Moon Zappa was invoking the sacred right to mock her own. This is mocking someone else.
I think Madonna’s “Vogue” is probably a better analogy than Valley Girl: it’s another example of a pop star coopting a subculture to which she doesn’t belong and using it as a backdrop to focus attention on herself. I’m pretty sure some people were less-than-happy about that.
I actually wouldn’t have any problem if Stefani dressed in Japanese street fashion (which seems to me to be a lot about cultural appropriation and pastiche anyway, so it’s hard to get worked up about someone else “stealing” it) or was influenced by Japanese pop music. It’s the silent posse of “Harajuku girls” (a category that she invented, no?) that’s really sketchy. It’s using people as accessories.
I don’t like what Stefani’s doing because, on balance, it seems to incorporate a lot of racist stereotypes about “servile asian women,” as well as treating asian women as property. And I agree, it’s nauseating.
But I’m not sure about objecting to “appropriation and cultural plundering.” If all Stefani had done is base her own wardrobe on the creative ideas of Harajuku girls, that would certainly be an appropriation – but I don’t think it’s objectionable. Creativity and fashions are something that should be spread and imitated, including across cultural lines. (For that matter, I don’t think it takes anything away from the creativity of Harajuku girls to notice that a lot of what they do appropriates elements of past western fashions).
Cultural co-option is overrated–I agree. I want to see the people who hate it start decrying the existence of Wilco or Neko Case.
I’ve had this argument so many times it’s getting a bit old for me personally, but I don’t think I’ve ever had it on this blog, so:
I think there’s a vast difference between doing a culture rip-off than there is incorporating elements of other cultures in your work with respect. For example, Madonna for years has managed to piss off any number of people by going in, scoping out elements of their cultures that she thinks she can capitalise on, and using them without any regard to context, or paying tribute.
Over the years, I’ve heard of people from India, lesbians, indigenous Australians, people from Spain, African-Americans (especially African American women), and various and sundry members of a number of “underground” type subcultures complain about Madonna’s using their cultures as a marketing tool for herself, without giving anything back or even really acknowledging the sources.
The other side of the coin can be illustrated by people like George Harrison, who showed a genuine love for Indian culture and music, or the Clash, who always, always tried to approach incorporating Black styles like reggae or rap with respect. And they *always* made sure to acknowledge the sources and pay tribute to the Black artists who inspired them.
I personally have never heard any Asian or British Asian comment that Harrison was an “appropriator”. In fact, Cornershop said they did their version of “Norwegian Wood” because they *liked* the way Indian culture had been incorporated in it, and Meera Syal refers to him as “Dear George”. And the same goes for the Black musicians I’ve heard mentioning the Clash. The closest I’ve heard to a criticism of them is Rachid Taha’s comments about “Rock the Casbah” (which he recently recorded himself), which he described as being slightly infantile–or words to that effect.
There are ways and ways of incorporating other influences into what you do, and the level of respect you show is a big part of determining whether you are being cool and international and groovy, or just a culture-plunderer.
Now this is the cue for tons of people posting examples of Indians and Jamaican musicians tearing George Harrison and the Clash to shreds……..
Good distinction. There’s also a difference between incorporating/appropriating stuff and ideas and acquiring actual people.
hahahaha…..this is all sooooo amusing!! :D
No woman, in my opinion, should be made into a mute fashion accessory. Just the image of four non-white women trailing around behind a white woman, hanging on her every word and not being allowed to speak… Can you really say that this is a harmless affectation? Asian fetishism nor not, this is certianly female fetishism. Stefani should have just bought herself a new pair of diamond earrings instead of four slaves.
Crys T: I think at the same time one can look at a “collaborative” effort like Paul Simon’s “Graceland” and see how appropriation of music or memes, etc., disenfranchises those from which it originates. That being said, it’s a fine line between showing appreciation and appropriating something for your own gain. Especially when you are a very powerful person.
Crys, I think that’s a great distinction. It does have problems on the edges when the artist may not be appropriating it, but the audience is–witness the Beastie Boys, who are not “appropriating” hip hop by any stretch, but they do have audience members who essentially appropriate the Beastie Boys as a way to appropriate hip hop in general. In particular, the Beastie Boys are outspoken opponents of sexism and have openly regretted the sexism of their first album, but despite this, there’s a huge frat boy-type contigency that uses the Beastie Boys’ music for sexist ends, and they get away with it by appropriating the “cool” factor of hip hop.
Q: after I made my last post, “Graceland” did come to mind. I remember a while after it was released and got all that praise from critics, etc., it came out that the guys from Ladysmith Black Mambazo felt as if they’d been used. And I also remember Los Lobos relating a story about their working with Simon that was really critical of him, specifically for him getting a buzz off them but not really giving anything back.
Amanda: yeah, the situation you illustrated with the Beastie Boys is annoyingly common, too. Going back to the examples from my earlier post, all you need to do is look at the way people who’d been introduced to Indian music and culture by the Beatles and other 60s musicians latched onto the whole thing in a really superficial, exoticising, flavour-of-the-week way. And with the Clash, a lot of the fans who worshipped *them* when they did Black styles subjected artists like Mikey Dread and Bo Diddley to racist abuse when they toured with the band.
Like both of you said, there are fine lines and gray areas. But I don’t think that people like the Beastie Boys, who I know have come out time and again explaining their position, can really be held responsible for what their fans do, although I can imagine it must really frustrate them.
I dont’ know about George Harrison specifically, but I know that a lot of Indian people were really annoyed by the hippie embrace of India, not because it was superficial or short-term, but because it was only interested in those aspects of Indian culture which were useful to rebellious Western young people. They felt that their own society was too competitive and commercialized and inauthentic, and they wanted to find a place that was spiritual and pure. And they just ignored the aspects of India that didn’t fit their bill. So they liked gurus and sitar players, but they weren’t at all interested in Bollywood or cricket culture, which looked too much like the mass commercial culture that they wanted to leave behind. To a lot of Indians, it’s just a positive gloss on the “noble savage” thing. I know a lot of Indian people who are totally fine with superficial cultural appropriation like dresses made out of sari fabric but not ok at all with the whole “magical, mystical East” thing, even when people devote their entire lives to it.
Actually, this goes back to amp’s post on Wendy Doniger. Most Indian people I know find her work really annoying: she has some kind of hangup about sex and religion, and she’s gone to India to find a religion that supposedly celebrates rather than represses sexuality. Her interest in India, they think, is really about *her*: her issues, her problems with “the West,” etc. It’s insulting to reduce India to some sort of field on which American intellectuals can work out their post-Freudian angst. On the other hand, my Indian friends find her Indian critics, who are ethnic essentialists and cultural purists, among other nasty things, down-right dangerous. And their problem isn’t with “Western” academics who study India or Hindusm: it’s with a particular American academic who seems to view India through the lens of her own hangups in an obvious and obnoxious way.
I guess I really don’t want to go too far in the other direction and argue that people must stay in their own little cultural boxes and never get involved in other people’s cultures. But it’s not easy for me to work out the rules for doing so. I’m sure that Wendy Doniger feels that she’s respecting Hinduism. It just doesn’t look like that to a lot of Hindus, some of whom have their own sketchy agendas.
Eek. Was that totally incoherent?
Weird.. I just posted a small creative writing piece yesterday in the music section on this very subject. http://www.poplish.com. Starlight.. you go girl!
“I guess I really don’t want to go too far in the other direction and argue that people must stay in their own little cultural boxes and never get involved in other people’s cultures. But it’s not easy for me to work out the rules for doing so.”
Yeah, it’s not at all clear-cut. But I would say that at least part of it would have to involve dealing honestly with cultures. As you pointed out, young Westerners created this idealised vision of a “mystic, holy India” and completey ignored aspects of Indian culture that didn’t fit that image. That’s totally dishonest, not to mention insulting to the actual people who created/live in that culture.
I’m seeing a major problem here: we’re creating a fiasco that need not exist. Do you think the infinitely more confident harajuku girls are even stunned by this so-called “outrage?” Somehow, I keep thinking they don’t care (which is half the appeal of the girls in the first place). So, why should we be making a big fuss? You, the same person who thinks it ridiculous that Gwen Stefani would do something so “terrible,” are handing power over to the pop icon. You’re making it seem like what she does and how she markets herself affects tho Tokyo streets, and, more importantly, the world. She has stated on numerous accounts that her actions are satirical representations of american culture and the idiosyncrasies that lie within. She even makes fun of herself on the album. “I can’t wait to go back and do Japan; Get me lots of brand new fans…” C’mon, people…don’t be so touchy. The harajuku girls wouldn’t.
I agree with you Friday! Listen I have read all of u’r coments that you guys made but i have to say this to some people. I realy think you guys should just lighten up! See thats what I hate about people who critises others!! I mean Gwens isn’t realy stereo typing japanies gilrs or what not! She’s just doing something that she likes and she’s not damaging anyone in the process! I mean it realy frustrates me when people say ” ohhhhhh, Gwens is destroying the harajuiku culture” or ” ooohhhhh Gwen should stay in her own culural box” and there people who write their comment sssooooooo technicle to make it sound like a court case!!!!!!!!! ITS SOOOO STUPID!!!!! I realy think you guys need to lighten up and not make one little thing in to a whole court case!!!! LIGHTEN UP!!!!!! GGGGRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s obviously important enough for you two to come to a forum that you would never normally frequent in order to defend some pop star, and the cultural privilege she represents.
Poor grammar! horrible spelling!
Excessive exclamation points!!!!!!!111oneoneone
it burrnnssss ussss!
Judge not lest ye be judged?
How about a little of that people?
Maybe some should consider that its just pop music?
It’s about fun and frolic and is not intended to “affect culture” or to bring about any great social change? They are just music videos people!!!!! Three to five minutes of fun – that’s it – that’s all.
And by the way – the Harajuku girls do not look, (to me), as though they mind all that much?
Oh my gosh – they actually look as though they might be having fun?
If that’s “all” it is, why are you so adamant about defending it? It must have a greater meaning for you that just “fun and frolic” or you wouldn’t bother trudging over here, to a place that I don’t think you come under normal circumstances, and make the effort to change people’s minds.
People don’t normally do that for no real reason.
No, you’ve come here to have your say because there’s something that’s bothering you to the point where you have to speak up about it. Otherwise, you’d have just laughed the whole thing off.
What you are talking about is covered in Feminism 101. And frankly, I’m not going to be your teacher on that one: I’ve had to do it far, far too many times already in my life. If you actually do give a damn about this, do some research on your own and maybe learn about it.
It *isn’t* all “fun and frolic”. What Stefani is doing is carrying a message, and I think that message is very unhealthy. I also think it’s frankly stupid, not to mention sexist and racist.
I honestly don’t know what the big issue is here. In case you haven’t noticed, RAPPERS USE WOMEN AS HUMAN ACCESORIES!! And I also don’t think Gwen does that in real life, IT’S JUST FOR PUBLICITY, it’s not like the Harajuku girls follow her everywhere 24/7. However, when rappers use girls as human accessories/sex toys, I find it offensive. And what’s this “lesbian” thing people are talking about; I didn’t see any of that.
I’m not sure why exactly you think it’s offensive when rappers use women as accessories but just fine when Gwen Stefani does it, Cammy. What’s the difference, in your mind?
Why on earth would you assume that we hadn’t noticed? Why would you assume that we aren’t critical of it when we see it?
I’m also interested in why you only find it offensive when “rappers” use women as accessories, but not when Stefani does it.
And that justifies it how? To me, it almost makes it worse: she’s using this racist, sexist imagery, but only to make an easy buck off it. Great. For me, it’s easier to understand piggish behaviour when the person in question just doesn’t know any better–to say they do know better but they’re still doing it for their own material gain makes that behaviour seem infinitely more piggish.
I find it offensive when rappers use women as accessories, and when white boy rock stars use women as accessories, or when sleazy lounge singers use women as accessories, or when sports stars use women as accessories….and also when Gwen Stefani uses women as accessories. I don’t make exceptions on unacceptable behaviour just because I happen to enjoy what the person who commits that behaviour does.
Have you watched the video? … you know the part where two different women run their hands over Stefani’s crotch?
It seems funny to me how those that disagree with another’s opinion always result to insulting their intelligence.
Some of us do not watch music videos, television shows, any media really, to be enlightened or educated. I went to school for that. I merely stated that some, including myself, watch music videos and other media to be “ENTERTAINED”.
If her supposed message bothers you so much Crys T, maybe instead of coming to various websites to whine and complain about it with no effect, get off that computer chair and go do something about it!
Where have I done that to you?
So it’s okay then if that “ENTERTAINMENT” includes racist, sexist, culture-plundering imagery (as long as it’s not being done by “rappers”–then it IS offensive), coz, hey, after all we’re not in SCHOOL now–we can just relax and pretend that these things don’t hurt real people in the real world.
No, I don’t buy that one, either.
Firstly, what “various” websites???? I’ve discussed this here—a place I come to on a regular basis and discuss many topics on–and possibly *one* other feminist site that I also visit regularly. Isn’t it you who’s going round to sites you never would normally visit to post about this? And also, exactly what do you know about my real life? How do you know what I am involved with and what I do when I’m not online? Nothing. Isn’t that right?
Now maybe you can get round to answering my questions: why is using women as accessories only offensive when “rappers” do it and not when Gwen Stefani does it? And why do you assume that those of us who have criticised Stefani on this thread are unaware and/or uncritical of those rappers?
Ah dammit: “How do you know what I am involved with and what I do when I’m not online? Nothing. Isn’t that right?” Should be “WHAT do you know what I am involved with and what I do when I’m not online? Nothing. Isn’t that right?”
Jeez, there go any feeble remnants of dignity I might have mustered…….
First – these are your words – “I’ve had this argument so many times it’s getting a bit old for me personally, but I don’t think I’ve ever had it on this blog, so”. That’s what I mean by “various”? websites????”.
Second, the reference to my intellgence went to suggesting that I needed a “teacher”.
Third, you are confusing me with somene else, I never said anything about rappers, etc. ( I believe that was “Cammy”)
I’m not trying to change anyones mind. What I am defending is the artists right to express herself without people judging who she is because of it.
Is Stephen King a monster because he writes about them?
What I don’t understand is why people feel a need to suggest that because they disagree, or don’t get the nature of her intention, it is wrong?
Could it possibly be that Miss Stefani makes her music for fun, and yes, money?
Maybe she doesn’t consider the “message” she is sending to young kids because it is not her place to consider that?
Parents and clergy are those to impart morals and values, not musicians, actors, etc.
If you have children and are opposed to Gwen’s “message” then it is your right and responsibility to not listen to it, buy it, or to allow it in your home.
She has the right to express herself in which ever way she chooses and to suggest that she is piggish and stupid because you don’t agree with her is closed minded behavior and in itself hints at oppression and censorship. You are a femnist are you not? Do femnists not fight against that very behavior?
It is a music video, pure and simple.
How about using your intelligent mind to end violence, poverty, and world hunger rather than pointless criticism of artistic expression?
You know stuff that matters?
Using the words of a wise man named “Tony”, LIGHTEN UP!!!!!!!!!!
This is Sally. I’ m posting from a public computer, and I still can’t figure out how to not have it remember my info. (What gives, amp?)
I don’t believe that artists, or anyone else, have the right to be protected from criticism. Free speech cuts both ways: people have the right to say what they want, and other people have the right to criticize what they say. That’s kind of basic to the whole idea of free speech.
It’s not her place to consider the consequences of her words and actions? I would say that it’s everyone’s place to consider that. I would say that a society in which lots of people don’t consider the consequences of their behavior isn’t going to work very well.
Ok, let me get this straight. If we say that Gwen Stefani shouldn’t treat women of color like accessories, we’re “hinting” (nice vague word there) at oppression and censorship. But if you say that we shouldn’t express our opinion of Stefani’s video, that’s not hinting at censorship at all.
Free speech doesn’t mean the right to speak freely without being criticised. It means that if people are free to speak, and if other people are free to contradict and criticize and point out the flaws, and if still other people can rebutt the critiques, etc., then we’ll all have access to the widest range of ideas and we will all be in a position to judge for ourselves whose position makes sense. The whole idea relies on the duty of citizens to criticize and discuss other people’s speech.
If you would like to defend Gwen Stefani, go ahead and exercise your right to free speech by coming up with a coherent defense of her. But that’s not what you’re doing here. You’re telling her critics to shut up. And that makes me think that you just can’t come up with a defense.
Racism doesn’t matter?
Firstly, my apologies for confusing you with Cammy. My bad.
Ah jeez, when I said I’d had this argument “too many times” I wasn’t talking about Stefani, I was talking about the fact that just because women participate in something of their own will, that does NOT mean that the event/behaviour in question is automatically cleared of being sexist.
“Second, the reference to my intellgence went to suggesting that I needed a “teacher”?.”
That’s your interpretation of it, but it’s certainly not mine. We all need teachers about certain topics: none of us is expert in everything. That doesn’t make us “unintelligent”. The problem is that I’ve come across too many people who make it obvious that they need to be educated on the basics about how prejudice, stereotyping, and, above all, social power and hegemony work, and at this particular moment in my life, I simply don’t have the time to teach. If you need to have it explained to you why the fact that the Harajuku women in question are participating doesn’t magically make Stefani’s racist/sexist use of them a-okay, you will have to look to someone else for an explanation. That’s all.
“I’m not trying to change anyones mind. What I am defending is the artists right to express herself without people judging who she is because of it.”
Oh here we go again………look, “freedom of speech” DOES NOT and NEVER HAS meant that you get to say whatever halfbaked crap comes into your brain without anyone else’s being able to criticise you for it. You can say the crap, but you had better be prepared for others’ exercising THEIR right to tear that crap to shreds. If an artist behaves in a sexist/racist/any other sort of offensive way, I have every right in the world to be critical, and voice my opinion when and however I choose. OK? That is NOT censorship or any other repressive thing: Stefani is getting up my nose, it’s my right to say so. I’m not trying to stop her. I’m just giving my two cents. That’s how the whole concept of freedom of expression works.
And saying you “aren’t trying to change anyone’s mind” is not exactly honest. OF COURSE you are. You wouldn’t be coming here writing such a long post in such a vehement manner if you weren’t. I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to change minds if that’s what you want to do, but please be honest about it.
“Is Stephen King a monster because he writes about them?”
No, but if he writes about monstrous things in a way that makes it appear he endorses them, then he is fair game for harsh criticism.
“What I don’t understand is why people feel a need to suggest that because they disagree, or don’t get the nature of her intention, it is wrong?”
If I disagree, then why the hell SHOULDN’T I say it’s wrong? Would you disagree with my running through the streets, slapping everyone I meet across the face with a large dead fish? Wouldn’t you then have the right to say I’d be wrong for doing so? If a person is doing something that I honestly feel is promoting racist and sexist attitudes, where do you or anyone else get off telling me that I can’t object to that behaviour? What sort of a world would it be if none of us had the right to criticise behaviour we saw as harmful?
And you know what: in my opinion, I “get” what Stefani is doing just fine. I just happen to think it sucks.
“Could it possibly be that Miss Stefani makes her music for fun, and yes, money?”
Fine. Let her go to town on that, I have no problem at all with that. Just let her do it without exploiting faux-lesbian imagery, appropriating other cultures and promoting stupid “exotic” racist and sexist attitudes about Japanese (or any other) women. If she can’t, then I am going to criticise her.
“Maybe she doesn’t consider the “message”? she is sending to young kids because it is not her place to consider that? Parents and clergy are those to impart morals and values, not musicians, actors, etc.””
Oh please. She isn’t resposible for her own actions? BULLSHIT. It’s EVERYONE’S responsibilty to consider how our actions are going to affect others. That’s what’s called “society”, you know? And it isn’t just “young kids” I’m considering. This idea that those in the media can get away with any sort of shitty action just because they’re in “entertainment” is a load of crap.
“She has the right to express herself in which ever way she chooses and to suggest that she is piggish and stupid because you don’t agree with her is closed minded behavior and in itself hints at oppression and censorship.”
Yeah, yeah….I knew this one was coming. See above. My exercising my right to freedom of expression IN NO WAY constitutes an attack on Stefani’s right to freedom of expression. Jeez, what is wrong with the educational system these days that so many people don’t seem to be able to work out that elementary piece of logic? Stefani has the right to do and say what she likes; well guess what, so do I.
“It is a music video, pure and simple.”
Nothing pure or simple about music videos. I suggest you try Googling the word “semiotics” and maybe “Roland Barthes” and have a read. Also, try “discourse analysis”. And you know, even “hegemony” might be good.
And here I said I wasn’t going to play teacher.
I didn’t even notice this first time round: “the artists right to express herself without people judging who she is because of it”
Why on earth would you “express yourself” if you DIDN’T want people to judge “who you are” because of it? Isn’t that the whole point of “expressing yourself” in the first place???
This is creepy, i didn’t realize gwen did this, although i saw her “hollaback” video, which also creeped me out. The use of asian women and “bananas” suggests promotion of white washed asian (bananas)…
But this.. this i’ll have to spread around…
well, i say anybody who doesn’t like gwen stefani and her new statements, can all just fuck off and go to hell. if you don’t like it, get off and move on! gwen stefani is the good shit and harajuku girls do have pretty damn wicked style. Gwen can do whatever the hell she wants. think about this way, she is making millions of dollars, while us average people are lucky enough to afford college or at least a decent paying job. if i were in gwen’s position, hell i’d do whatever it takes to keep that money rolling in. she just went solo, and she is doing very well. so why don’t everybody just get off her back and give her a fucking break! damn!
…Gwen?
you know, if Gwen Stefani was using black women as her human accessories, it would have been more of a controversy. Since asians are so passive, it’s not so much of an issue.
Gwen can do whatever the hell she wants. think about this way, she is making millions of dollars, while us average people are lucky enough to afford college or at least a decent paying job.
and like Sara Craft says, since Gwen is a “rich girl”, she can do whatever she wants, like kill people, or stick a BANANA up her ass, or misrepresent Japanese women. So please, leave Gwen alone.
all the time spent on these posts u guys could’ve already freed the 4 harajukus
my god, you’re right!
if only we expressed our outrage more physically, by, you know, committing a major crime, like killing Gwen Stefani because we think she’s objectifying women and perpetuating negative racial stereotypes!
but we’re those lazy, hippy bunch, who think using the first amendment to express distaste at such ideas and hopefully encourage others to poo poo it, thus encouraging slow, grassroots action is a much better idea than killing people.
Miss Craft, perhaps you missed the point: we in fact, think the harajuku fashions are wicked awesome. we also recognize, that this sort of thing means that in 4 months, Hot Topic will be selling “Stefaniwear Harajuku skirts” for 70 dollars.
and we don’t want that to fucking happen. because when something shows up at hot topic, it INSTANTLY ceases to be cool to anyone who’s graduated high school.
Hello…
I’ve been reading all the comments about the G4 case and there is nothing new about it. I guess all the singers have been doing that even b4 Gwen had the idea to. I unfortunately have no access to all the info you guys have because I live in Brasil. But I don’t remember any pop stars not using back dancers or whatever you call them to illustrate a point. Madonna comes to my mind and all those rapper dudes with that almost naked girls in all their videos and that is considered cool. You may ask lots of guys. Tell them to forget the politically correct issues and answer if they would not like lots of half naked girls all around them all the time.
Unfortunatelly, Gwen bumped into a subject she had no idea (in my oppinion, maybe i’m being naive) she would have to face. I guess she just wanted to illustrate the harajuku style she likes so much and Wham! she is now criticized about that. Sometimes whe don’t even know we are doing it, but we are being sexists and all the other “ists” . It has so much roots inside of us we didn’t even know it was there.
Maybe if they were not dancing with her and just performed a fashion show like they using a catwalk during it showing the clothes harajuku girls use to wear, things would not been seen the way they are now. The damage is done. She maybe didn’t realize she was reinforcing the idea of submission the Asian girls are known to be. Not that it’s true of course, but again, some people thing Brasilian girls are easy and we brasilians live in jungles, with monkeys in the streets and all sort of exoctic animals around us. That’s again lack of knowledge and prejudice.
Finally I would like to express that I’m soooo against the idea of submission. I don’t know if the G4 is really following Gwen whatever she goes but if so, all i have to say is that is has to stop.
Ps.: please forgive my mistakes. :o( I’m not used to write in english as much as I did now. – GIRL POWER!
—— Maria Rita
hey i think harajuku style id the bomb and its so cool that gwen stefani is represenin them! any ways you guys rock its so cool and um were do u shop? how much is everything?
Sunny:
Please tell me that is sarcasm, and not repulsively ignorant racism.
What exactly do you think it is that we are “doing to” her? How *is* Stefani being harmed by a discussion on an Internet forum that she has probably never even heard of?
karpad:
Yeah, evil of us, isn’t it?
Ummm, actually, I think I really did read Sunny’s post wrong the first time round. If I did, Sunny, please accept my apologies.
Too true!! What is wrong with name-checking your inspiration.
I notice that many Christians do it when singing about God and Jesus. Dub music and Reggae often credits Jah, Haile Salassi, and Marijuana. Songs and tracks are littered with references to a source of inspiration whether it is through blatant sampling, subtle and intricate vocal reference, or even rhythm pattern arrangements.
In any case, Miss Stefani is in the pop industry which is about entertainment and shouldn’t be taken so seriously. She doesn’t seem to advocate racial hatred, violence or anything negative in her songs. That doesn’t make you popular, which is a key factor in being a pop star.
Haters
I wouldnt bet on that.
which part shouldn’t i bet on??
Advocation of racial hatred etc?
Or that not being popular?
I was unclear. Lets say I wouldnt bet that advocating racial hatred, violence or anything negative doesn’t make one popular. (And I don’t believe miss Stefani is advocating these things, but only that there is plenty of racist, violence-glorifying stuff in the entertainment industry that sells well. So it wrong to say these things won’t make you popular, because they can.)
I’d also like to add that just because Stefani is not advocating racial hatred, that does not in any way, shape or form mean that she isn’t presenting racist imagery.
God, what is it about her fans that makes them not get that having 4 Japanese women mutely following you around plays into all sorts of hateful stereotypes about Asian women?
the 4 japanese women mutely following her around are not forced to do it. they get a tidy wage. it could be viewed that what they are involved with is a form of performance art. i must add here that i am NOT saying thats what it is, but just keep your minds open a little. if the debate is about how Stefani is playing on stereotypes of Asian women we must ask why these Asian women are allowing themselves to be exploited. Are they REALLY enslaved to Gwen?
i’m not a fan of hers but am simply interested in the debate, though because i haven’t wholeheartedly agreed to the case against her, I seem to have been stereotyped as a fan.
Why do stereotypes exist?
They exist for a very specific reason. It is easier to create a demographic by using similar/like terms. Stereotyping isn’t good, and unfortunately i find myself stereotyped one way or another all the time, but that is how humans function as a society and are able to describe other groups. It make things easier to work out for some and makes it easier to discuss different cultures. Culture is in itself a stereotype. we must be objective about this.
Any image someone feels is negative about culture can be seen as racist. This doesn’t mean that the image is inaccurate. What if a culture is by and large happy (no i’m not suggesting that in this case badly treated asian women are happy) who says it is right to change it? All the problems Bush has created, and he was still voted in by a relatively slim majority. This still leaves at least half the nation oppressed under a regime they do not agree with. do you see my point?
I don’t reckon Gwen was accurately displaying a culture, but i don’t think she was trying to.
true – worked for bush…..
but if popularity is majority consent – who is the minority to try and change that?
sorry folks just curious…
robokid:
Well, of course minority must be allowed to speak out and describe their point of view. Hopefully it will change attitudes that people have, and things that are popular (but wrong/unjust) cease to be popular. Tyranny by majority is a tricky thing, and that’s why there must be things that are not subject to popular vote (like the most basic human rights).
Good points about stereotyping (and Bush, even though I’m not from the US, but that and Bush is a seperate issue), everyone is stereotyped in some way. And please don’t return the favor by stereotyping commentors here as close-minded or anything else either. Commentors here seem to be coming from all over the world and from different lifestyles etc. hardly a homogenous group.
Thanks Tuomas.
The real point here, however, is that the people who are coming to defend Stefani on this thread are doing so because they are her fans, and not because they have a real interest in discussing–or even actually thinking about–the issues that have been raised.
And we’re the “closeminded” ones……………………….yuh-huh.
Crys T:
You’re welcome.
Come to think of it, I myself didn’t get what was wrong with Gwen Stefanis’ music videos and that harajuku girls thing until I read this post, some arguments for and against, and pondered it for a while. I was objective (in fact, I might have been slightly biased against the premise of this post, it did seem like a non-issue to me, and I think Gwen Stefani is o.k. if not great) and came to the conclusion “Damn, those are the classic stereotypes of asian women she’s portraying, and the girls are used as passive human accessories”. I think no one is claiming it is slavery or the biggest wrong in the world, but it is slightly obnoxious anyway.
sorry, didn’t mean to stereotype all commentors as closed minded. obviously that isn’t the case or we wouldn’t be engaging in such discourse. i think the diverse views show clearly that the only stereotype that can be applied here is that contributors are able to use a computer.
i think you may have missed everything i wrote. i am certainly not making any defence because i am a fan of Stefani. I am 30 and produce underground electronic music in the north of england. i am involved with an underground scene that has been exploited left right and centre for its music fashion and imagery for the last decade and a half. i do not listen to pop or have anything to do with a commercial scene. my records are to get music out not to make cash. I found this thread as one of many linked to the word Harajuku. I sometimes watch a music channel at a flat where i support two autistic gentlemen and so have seen Stefani’s Harajuku obsession. i was following this up. which stereotype do i fit in to that you still assume i am a fan for having a balanced viewpoint?
maybe it is just that black or white, if you defend, you are a fan i guess. get off your high horse and take a look at the real world. what do you think the discussion is about.
the problem is it seems you cannot see past your blinkered view Crys T, that anyone who disagrees with you MUST be a fan. it seems that it is really you who is unable to discuss or even think about the issues raised as you seem completely blind to the discussion.
maybe you should learn to be a little less judgemental.
Robokid: look, this conversation has been going on for a long time. In fact, it had died down till a couple of Stefani fans came back and revived it a day or so ago.
If you’re so bothered, why don’t you read the entire thread, go away and think about it, and then make an argument that actually addressed the issues of sexism, racism and cultural appropriation that have been raised by others above, rather than just repeating the already-debunked idea that, hey, these women are getting paid, so what’s the problem?
I’m personally sick of having to rehash–ONE MORE TIME–of why the mere fact that women participate in a given situation does not immediately negate the possibility of exploitation and sexism. As I said in an earlier post, that is Feminism 101 and I’m not here to be your teacher. In case you hadn’t noticted, this is a feminist/political blog, not a music-related one, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to expect people who come here to be informed.
Also, there are plenty of regular posters here whose opinions I vehemently disagree with, but I wouldn’t accuse them of trolling because I know that they’re here in good faith. Even if I can’t stand their ideas.
I’m not “blind” to any discussion: this discussion was dead and buried before you even got here, and decided that *your* interpretation of what was going on was to be the accepted theme to follow. Sorry, pal. No.
funny that, still wrong on idea of me being a fan writing in defence of the pop star, and wrong on the idea i haven’t read the entire thread AND given thought. If its so dead and i’m so wrong, why are you writing back.
Hi!,
sorry, i know this discussion is dead and i dont really want to start the whole thing again. i just wanted to say
(a) this whole thing was damn intresting (i just read the whole thing)
and thank you all for your opion, but also i would like to ask for some information. im doing a research project on Japan and chose the HArajuku street fashion as my topic (hence me comming here) and am going to discuss the whole topic of the Gewn thing (i havent decided im for or against yet, i need more time and info) and so was wondering if anyone here could send me any other websites about the g-4? or specific interviews and stuff….my email is Back_b4_dawb@hotmail.com
so yeah, uhhh thanks alot. i appreaicate is (and so will my society and culture teacher)
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I think after seeing America’s Next Top Model Series One when they went to Tokyo and had go shopping and create a cheap but unique look explains alot about how harajuku girls work. Stefani isn’t the first person to capitalise on Asian fashion, Victorian dresses, Lace, black gothic makeup and clothes, kimonos and silk and waist belts have been features on Paris and Milan runways for years. Now that Stefani is becoming a designer AND singer, her use of the four harajuku girls is for Inspiration. They are akin to being Muses for her. There is a song on her album (track 7) stating that she is their biggest fan, and that they inspired her latest collection of designer clothes (L.A.M.B.) But Stefani still retains her Americanism and puts her inspiration into something American (or british, or australian) Teens.
Most of all, harajuku is meant to inspire US to mix and match, to buy unique antique pieces and make them our own, to go rooting around op shops, and flaunt your own unique style.
“Most of all, harajuku is meant to inspire US to mix and match, to buy unique antique pieces and make them our own, to go rooting around op shops, and flaunt your own unique style. ”
Have you ever considered that mostly Harajuku fashion isn’t really “meant” to have any impact on Western cultures at all? Hey, don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge anime fan and have more than a passing interest in modern Japanese youth culture (and an Asian husband and a Japanese gal pal who would drag me to see anime and to shop for Japanese-produced clothes even if I wasn’t so obsessed with the whole thing) BUT I’m just not arrogant enough to imagine that the whole culture was designed purely to provide inspiration/comfort/joy/whatever to a bunch of Westerners. Japanese street fashion is a visual conversation that a bunch of Japanese kids are having with each other. It’s not about us. I think that the issue that a lot of people have with Stefani is that she’s taken what was a really cool subversive little subculture and completely de-fanged it. Her version is boring. Plus, she’s reinforcing the submissive Asian woman stereotype and basically using her dancers like living accessories. It’s creepy.
If she really wanted to pay some kind of homage to Japanese youth culture, why not invite one of the top J-Pop stars to guest on her record and appear in her videos? There are tons of pop stars in Japan who make music that would fit in pretty easily with her style. Plus, the fashion movement she’s riffing on is intrinsically tied up with the music anyway. What I’m trying to say is, if she just wanted to call attention to a cool subculture that she admires there are ways to do that without reinforcing negative stereotypes and completely disconnecting the look from the scene that produced it. The way she’s approaching it looks like colonialism, and that’s what seems to be annoying people.
I agree with sooo many people here that Gwen Stefani is abusing the Asian culture. I’m not Japanese, but I’m Chinese and I’m sure most of us know more about the Japanese culture than Stefani does. I find her songs most annoying; THIS SHIT IS B-A-N-A-N-A-S BANANAS~ Oh God, the fake stuck-up Gwen fans are just singing it every single minute of the day. I just hope it won’t happen again.
I also find that she shouldn’t be wearing that either. According to the girls in her music videos that are supposedly in the ‘Japanese culture’, they don’t even look or dress Japanese. Also, Gwen is trying to act cute but has she forgotten how old she is? Later on in her ‘Hollaback Gurl’ music video, she’s wearing this suit that is most unappropriate. She looks like a fob and she should just retire because…She is one of the most annoying artists I have ever seen.
If it were to be someone bringing the Asian culture into America or so, I don’t think Gwen Stefani is the right person for it. In fact, she’s actually making the Japanese culture look bad. It’s making some people think that Japanese girls all have some ditzy stuck-up attitude and a valley girl’s accent yet they don’t. In short, she’s ruining the reputation of “pop” music, the reputation of the “Japanese” culture, the meaning of music (which is not to continuously spell out bananas), and…what she should wear at her age.
Wow, a lot of conversation floating around here….
Well, I understand as seeing the issue of sexism/racism. Yet, as I am looking, Harajuku girls (including boys) dress up every Sunday, stand around and talk, giving off the young teenage vibes of fashion and such. But, besides getting out of school work and giving the rebellious punk attitude, they’re actually modeling to be picked-up by someone, like a photographer. These are people who WANT to be models and such. Image is all about acessory, and as far as I am concerned, most models have no expression and never speak.
So, if people with high fashion make that choice, it’s they’re choice. In my personal opinion, the Harajuku Girls, hanging by Gwen’s side, represent those models back in Japan,who stand on the sides, posing silently for the cameras. But, these girls are being paid as models. I am sure they get to talk later and such. Actually, they do sing with Gwen in her “Harajuku Girls” song and such. She has her own clothing line for them. It’s her display to show she likes their fashion.
I understand that it’s everyone’s choice to criticize, but it’s also everyone’s choice to defend. I know people come back and defend their own criticism. To be honest, that is nothing but a possible few small words to some people. If Gwen was choosing racism, then I guess models should be hired by racist agencies and such, using their bodies to promote clothing. But, it’s only my opinion to stand by. Whether it stirs something up, or you want to call me a dumb Gwen fan, I’ll go by it, or whatever your standards are. Not everyone has to love everyone, so I respect your judgement.
If in your eyes, you behold that Gwen is an evil posessing bitch, then you must go through the army in order to strike the castle. That’s all my “small” advice to you might be.
And, yes, perhaps I AM defending her as a fan. But, it has more than just being obnoxious and blindness. It’s my choice to hold, and if you want to criticize it, well make yourself feel like abig kid again. But, note, you wouldn’t like it if I bashed someone you looked up to. I think in areas of being open-minded, you shouldn’t criticize the fans. . .
[Just to add but forgot…]
Oh, and while you think about it, mostly, alot of Japanese fashion is inspired by Western clothing. It’s a very popular thing to have English words on your shirt or American brands. I wouldn’t say it shouldn’t be pushed on Americans, cause it’s they’re fashion to love, but fashion is eventually spread and used by most. And, hey, at least Gwen isn’t part of H!P, or someone likes Ai Otsuka. =0
Japanese fashion culture is just an alien world to us, so most of your claims or speculations : “this is wrong” “they’re dragqueens” “lesbians” “etc etc etc” just don’t apply here.
In harajuku you see girls with dog colars being dragged by someone else and that doesn’t mean even by far that they’re into S&M. You could also see musicians wearing Nazi symbols on their arms and they too weren’t into the nazi ideals.
It’s a world where fashion is just fashion with no kind of prejudice and I find that to be amazing. It’s like they’ve reached another step when it comes to society.
*i appolize for my english*
If anyone wants to talk mor about this subject e-mail me : utapurojecuto@hotmail.com
^_^;
I agree that it is demeaning somewhat to women, however “if” she were a male artist I just wouldn’t listen, and yes my child is very against “my” music! And loves what anyone else likes! And I don’t think Gwen stays up with the news to know there is a problem with crimes against women in Japan as stated by someone else! I think that part is a complete coincidence. Yes, her abs and whole fit body make me sick like alot of women griping here! Wait till she has kids!!! If you don’t like it, don’t listen, if you don’t want your kids listen, don’t gripe, or else your doing more against your fight if you feel like your sitting idly. Geez, go for Marilyn Manson if you need something.
Oh, christ, the Gwen Stephani fangirls have come to defend their idol.
Hey Ginmar, do I really sound like a fan?? Read the words, and maybe you should let them sink in for a moment, because your not getting my point! I agreed that it was all crazy, but we’re not talking about the war, or anything more important than that. I’m sure Gwen is a sheltered pop star, using whatever makes her more popular, and all these posts on here help her acheive that! I could care less what means she’s using to make her more popular! And when she comes on the radio, I switch the channel. Does that sound like a fangirl or that I idolize her????? Read before you post, you must have some intelligence!!! Correct???
I wonder??????? how many punctuation ,!# marks I can use randomly…………………….
Come on, Robert, you’re not a true FAN!!!!!! unless you totally miss the point and bitch and moan about how your idol is being maligned!!!!!
Oh, and don’t use words like malign, either.
If they’d just say, “U jus jellus’ it would save every one a great deal of time.
Robert, your showing your complete stupidity by not knowing how to use punctuation. That is usually something that is taught to you in school. By your message it is kinda looking obvious that you didn’t make it that far. P.S. I tried to minimize the punctuation marks so as not to confuse you.
actually, vetgirl, sweetie, if you want to lecture someone on intelligence it would behoove you to demonstrate a bit of it yourself—say, for example, by not getting the correct useage of ‘you’re’ and ‘your’ confused. Also, someone who thinks this:
Does that sound like a fangirl or that I idolize her????? Read before you post, you must have some intelligence!!! Correct???
demonstrates anything but a jammed keyboard is not in a position to lecture anyone else.
Plus, you made me defend Robert. That alone is enough to make me dislike you, your girlcrush on Stephani, her ludicrous pretenses, and pretty much anything else I can think of. Good job.
I have been dissed by vetgirl,,,,,,,,now I weep!!!!!!!!!!!!! so much!!!!!!!!!! I will take my Gwen Stephani albums and hug them to my tear-stained breast and go back to my room and cry……
But first I will express my feelings with this free punctuation verse:
#%@#^26
$#^%*^(()*&)
$#^%$&
^%#^#%
#%&#&%$& 34&# #&^*
So THERE! All you mean girlz can just Bite me!
Vetgirl, you made ginmar defend me and you made me be on the same side of something as ginmar. Ginmar and I don’t even agree about GRAVITY! So you are BAD and WRONG.
Oh, God she’s going to really unleash the dogs of multiple punctuation on you now, Robert. After all, she restrained herself to three question marks and exclaimation points before, God only knows what you’ve done!
Is it just me or does vetgirl need that new software that recognises when your cat is walking on the keyboard and prevents any further kitty typing?
Plue she made Gin and Robert agree, which is clearly a sign of the coming apocalypse. Is vetgirl the AntiChrist?
I’m reasonably sure that it’s possible for musicians and Asian women to work together without anyone being demeaned. I know only a little about Japanese music, but two amazing female vocalists are Makiko Sakurai and Ohta Hiromi. I discovered both of them through the works of the Japanese composer/maniac/Dead-lovin’ weirdo Ayou. His website is here.
http://park7.wakwak.com/~ayuo/
Go through google to get the translated version.
Soundclips on Amazon, etc etc. Really great stuff.
Stefani, on the other hand, has always made me break out in hives. No wonder Gwen doesn’t want to hang out with Japanese women who can sing. They’d kick her bubble-gum ass down the block. :p
Alsis, this has always been my gripe about Stefani and her human toys. If she wants to pay tribute to Harajuku fashin, which is VERY music influenced, why not do some kind of collaboration with one of the many J-Pop stars who influenced the fashion in the first place?