So, Daran, you keep commenting on anti-feminist websites, have your views changed?

You link to feminist critics, an anti-feminist website run by feminist haters and porn users and justifiers. Why don’t you tell us how YOU’VE changed instead of bitching about it from others?

Ban me if you have to, Amp, but this is bullshit. He associates with people who hate feminists and wishes them to die. His website that he puts in his info is anti-feminist. How is this feminist in any way? How is Daran tolerable in any way? How come women have to tolerate him over and over again? You called me a bully once. What is he, wtih the whole weight of the world at his back?

Cheryl left the italics open in 2005 and they’re still open in 2008.

Somebody do something.

How about this?

God, it must be rough to have nothing but italics to be concerned about.

So, Daran, you keep commenting on anti-feminist websites, have your views changed?

Since 2002? Probably. Is there something specific you want to ask me about?

You link to feminist critics, an anti-feminist website run by feminist haters and porn users and justifiers.

I don’t comment much except here and at Feminist Critics, which is run by HughRistik and myself. Neither of us (nor any of the other bloggers) hate feminists. Neither of us, to my recollection, has ever said we used porn or justified it, so your remark appears to be a baseless ad hom. Renegade Evolution does both, but she doesn’t run the site.

It’s possible that my recollection is mistaken and one of the two of us has said that we use porn, or justified it, in which case your remark is not baseless. It is still an ad hom.

Why don’t you tell us how YOU’VE changed instead of bitching about it from others?

I’m not bitching; I sincerely want to know the answer to the questions I asked, for a specific reason. But I won’t go into this here. Instead my next post on FCB will expand on this.

Ban me if you have to, Amp, but this is bullshit. He associates with people who hate feminists and wishes them to die.

Wishes them to die? If someone were to level a comparable allegation against feminists here, they would very quickly be told to 1) retract and apologise, 2) substantiate, or 3) leave. Possibly they would not be given the choice.

Firstly what do you mean by “associates”? If you’re talking about those who appear in the comments, well, I can’t vet all their views. The blog policy is to permit the expression of offensive views, even as far as wishing feminists dead. But we also permit feminists to wish men dead, and one feminist has done so. Is she one of your associates?

I draw the line at direct credible threats and incitement to violence. The only comment I ever had to delete for that reason was by her.

However, none of the bloggers on FCB, i.e., who I choose to associate with have ever wished feminists or women dead.

His website that he puts in his info is anti-feminist.

Ampersand does not appear to agree. He is on record as saying that HughRistik is a feminist according to his definition, Renegade Evolution is a feminist, and ballgame (who self-identifies as feminist) is not an MRA. That’s a majority of the bloggers. On the other hand, he regards toysoldier as an MRA and probably me too - a minority of the bloggers.

How is this feminist in any way? How is Daran tolerable in any way? How come women have to tolerate him over and over again? You called me a bully once. What is he, wtih the whole weight of the world at his back?

The weight of the world at my back? I wish.

God, it must be rough to have nothing but italics to be concerned about.

Could be worse I suppose. If I were a woman, I’d have to worry about whether or not to shave my legs.

If Amp defines Ballgame, Ren Ev, and the others associated with that site as feminists, he’s a fool. Ballgame is notorious for spreading anti feminist bullshit, and Ren Ev had publicly stated both that she wishes that feminsts would die ‘choking on their own blood’ under the trucks that ran them over, and that she is no feminist. If Amp is not aware of these things and of the character of the others who inhabit Feminist critics then he is no feminist. Iamcuriousblue is a porn user and a man who justifies the trafficking and raping of women. How many of your commenters do I hvae to go through? As for you yourself I remember what you were like before I left this site and that was quite enough. I sincerely doubt you’re as innocent of your acquaintances’ histories as you claim, and frankly, I resent you putting on an act of innocence. If you don’t know, you’re an idiot; if you do know, you’re a liar, and Amp’s a porn apologist and panderer to anti- feminists.

I notice your site also takes seriously the spewing of “Exposing feminism” an asshole who’s been trolling Shakespeare’s Sister for months now with his anti feminist bullshit. I really hope you’re wrong about Amp. Even he can’t be that misguided.

Oh, wait, I guess he can. Guess that quest for readers extends even to asshole anti-feminist sites. There’s Amp, sucking up to the assholes himself. What a shock.

Well, the pretense of feminism lasted about five seconds. Thanks, Daran. Even Robert lasted longer. I suppose you’ve gotten used to the anti-feminists you hang around with kissing your ass.

The blog policy is to permit the expression of offensive views, even as far as wishing feminists dead.

Let me clarify, seeing as the edit comment doesn’t work for me…

I don’t recall anyone wishing feminists dead on FCB. There certainly have been some highly offensive views expressed in the comments from both sides of the ideological divide.

However personal attacks and hostility directed at individuals is prohibited, and, though I say so myself, we have a very good record of moderating in that regard. Most of our guests behave themselves very well most of the time. When they don’t, we act. The purpose of the blog is “engendering discussion”. You with us. Any of you who wish to come on over and engage with us in good faith are welcome to do so. You may be surprised by just how well you get treated.

Here endeth the advert.

Why in fuck would I want to post on a site devoted to anti-feminist bullshit? You, EF, Ren Ev, and the rest of you can go fuck yourselves with your faux civility bullshit as far as I’m concerned. If I were gay, I wouldn’t go to a Log Cabin site, either. It’s beyond disgusting that Amp allows you to claim the label of feminist. Don’t think for a minute you’ve got anybody else fooled.

Daran, it’s true that Hugh is a feminist according to the terms of my definition; however, I’ve come to the conclusion that this says less about Hugh than it says about how fatally flawed my definition is. In the end, Hugh is firmly opposed to feminism and feminists; he virtually never says anything in support of feminists or feminism, except as a set up for slamming feminists or feminism. That he may have some pro-feminist views he keeps secret and never posts about isn’t enough to qualify him as a feminist, in my opinion.

I don’t know that I consider you an MRA; I can’t say I spend that much time thinking about it. I certainly do consider you an anti-feminist, and — regardless of how the folks on “Feminist Critics” self-identify — taken as a whole, it’s definitely an anti-feminist blog. The only poster there who ever posts significant content that’s not anti-feminist is RenEv, and her posts are only a minority of the posts there.

Ginmar, I really appreciated the perspective you brought to your long post on the waterboarding thread. Too bad you’re acting like a jerk. You’re banned again, for now; if you ever feel like coming back and not being a jerk, let me know and I’ll unban you.

(And for the record, I’ve never labeled Daran a feminist.)

Ren Ev had publicly stated both that she wishes that feminsts would die ‘choking on their own blood’ under the trucks that ran them over, and that she is no feminist.

I’d forgotten about that.

Ren’s remark was not made on my blog, and was not directed at feminists in general, but at specific individuals who were threatening to put her physical safety in jeopardy by outing her real world identity. Her angry outburst did not threaten anyone, and it was quickly withdrawn.

If Amp is not aware of these things and of the character of the others who inhabit Feminist critics then he is no feminist.

Amp knows that Ren no longer self-identifies as a feminist. He still recognises her as one. I’m sure he is aware of the character of the bloggers.

Iamcuriousblue is a porn user and a man who justifies the trafficking and raping of women.

Iamcuriousblue does not run the site. He’s not even a blogger, just someone who comments. I do recall, him saying something about his porn use. He has not to my knowledge justified the trafficking and raping of women.

How many of your commenters do I hvae to go through?

As many as you like. You’re the one driving this. You’re the one attacking. I’m not attacking you. All I’m doing is defending myself, my blog, my bloggers, and my guests from your attacks in so far as they make substantive allegations by rebutting them. Content-free attacks are cheerfully ignored.

And we can carry on with this until you decide to stop, the moderaters here decide to stop us, or until I am forced to withdraw from the sheer weight of the personal attacks on me. It’s happened before.

I notice your site also takes seriously the spewing of “Exposing feminism” an asshole who’s been trolling Shakespeare’s Sister for months now with his anti feminist bullshit.

I said of Exposing Feminism that “He writes intelligently, values courtesy, and attempts to engage those with whom he disagrees.” I stand by that. I know nothing of any trolling of Shakespeare’s Sister.

I really hope you’re wrong about Amp. Even he can’t be that misguided.
Oh, wait, I guess he can. Guess that quest for readers extends even to asshole anti-feminist sites. There’s Amp, sucking up to the assholes himself. What a shock.

Funnily enough, I get the Same complaint from my guests in respect of my treatment of feminists.

Why in fuck would I want to post on a site devoted to anti-feminist bullshit?

Anyway, since you’re now banned, I guess the moderators have decided to stop us. My thanks to Amp for doing so, and my apologies to him to the extend that, by not rolling over, I helped perpetuated it.

[Your first response to Ginmar, post-banning, was allowable because I figure you and I just cross-posted. But that’s the only post-banning response to Ginmar you get to make, here on “Alas,” at least. Responses to someone who you know has been banned are inappropriate. Or that’s how I feel right this second, anyhow. –Amp]

“What is he, wtih the whole weight of the world at his back?”

He’s a bully. A bully who is allowed to post in this thread, since it isn’t feminist-only.

Our feminist space is the feminist-only space. The rest is open.

Daran,

Don’t pretend that you’re an innocent here, not “rolling over.” This snark here:

Could be worse I suppose. If I were a woman, I’d have to worry about whether or not to shave my legs.

Out of line. You are to limit further comments in this thread to the discussion of the original topic you brought up — how Amp’s thoughts on the paragraph you highlighted may have changed.

Which, by the by, I thought was a very interesting question, should Amp have time or inclination to answer it.

The only poster there who ever posts significant content that’s not anti-feminist is RenEv

Please tell me this is some kind of typo. You cannot possibly be serious that you don’t see RenEv as an anti-feminist. I mean, if RenEv isn’t an anti-feminist, then there is no such thing as an anti-feminist.