{"id":18767,"date":"2014-06-18T17:12:48","date_gmt":"2014-06-19T00:12:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/?p=18767"},"modified":"2022-07-17T15:59:56","modified_gmt":"2022-07-17T22:59:56","slug":"being-cautious-of-men-versus-being-cautious-of-blacks","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/?p=18767","title":{"rendered":"Being Cautious of Men Versus Being Cautious of Blacks"},"content":{"rendered":"

This post originally contained embedded material from Storify.com, but apparently Storify went defunct at some point. But you can read it on the internet archive<\/a>, at least up until that site goes defunct someday too.<\/p>\n

In the hope of creating a more permanent record, I’m also cutting-and-pasting from the internet archive into this post. But I do not expect the formatting to come out very well.<\/p>\n

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    A bit of context: There was a\u00a0#EndFathersDay<\/a>\u00a0hashtag on twitter, started by a troll pretending to be a feminist (example tweet: “Instead of Fathers Day we need Castration Day\u00a0#EndFathersDay<\/a>.”) Libertarian Cathy Young, a professional writer and frequent critic of feminism, tweeted that it was “impossible to tell” that\u00a0#EndFathersDay<\/a>\u00a0was a prank<\/a>, not actual feminism.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n
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    \"CathyYoung63\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    Cathy Young<\/a>@CathyYoung63<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    When actual Twitter feminists tweet stuff like this, why shouldn’t people fall for\u00a0#EndFathersDay<\/a>,\u00a0@CathyReisenwitz<\/a>?\u00a0\u00a0<\/span>https:\/\/twitter.com\/mirnahh\/status<\/span>\/471313752525385729\u00a0\u2026<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    Cathy’s link refers to a\u00a0tweet which said\u00a0“#YesAllWomen<\/a>\u00a0because the odds of being attacked by a shark are 1 in 3,748,067, while a woman’s odds of being raped are 1 in 6… yet fear of sharks is seen as rational while being cautious of men is seen as misandry.”<\/i><\/p>\n

    I questioned Cathy about this – a reasonable person could disagree with that tweet’s arguments and statistics, but it’s not at all the same as an obvious prank like\u00a0#EndFather<\/a>‘sDay. One thing led to another, and Cathy asked me:<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n

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    \"CathyYoung63\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    Cathy Young<\/a>@CathyYoung63<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @barrydeutsch<\/a>\u00a0Here’s a simple question though–would this tweet be offensive if it referred to blacks\/racism, not men\/misandry?<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0Yes, it would be – not because of the sharks, but because of the false and harmful stereotyping of black people. (cont)<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0Regarding this particular issue, it’s not irrational for women to feel more cautious about men than women, in common contexts.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0If a woman is walking and someone starts following saying “Hi! Hey, hi!” and escalating to “don’t ignore me bitch!,” (cont)<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0It’s VERY safe to assume the person following is a man. And this happens VERY commonly, to many (not all) women.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0Perhaps you’d say that a woman in such a situation is irrational to fear violence, but I disagree. Few street harassers (cont)<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0escalate to violence, but it’s hard-wired into humans to find openly aggressive hostile behavior from strangers threatening.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0So in this very common situation – walking down the street – women could very rationally be more cautious of men than women.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0(Note I’m just saying “be more cautious.” I’m not saying mace every man you see, I’m not advocating any anti-male act at all.)<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0Not every man is a harasser, of course – most of us aren’t – but enough are so threatening public harassment is commonplace.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0In contrast, someone who is more cautious about blacks because they feel blacks are likely to be muggers is being irrational.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0Statistically, there are a greater proportion of muggers among blacks than whites – “but the number of such muggers (cont)<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0“… is so vanishingly small that a blacks chance of being one is only slightly higher than a white’s.” For practical, (cont)<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    (In the above two tweets, I paraphrase\u00a0something Cathy herself wrote<\/a>, hence the quote marks.)<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n
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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0walking-the-streets purposes, the odds of a stranger being a mugger are effectively identical regardless of skin color.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    \"barrydeutsch\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    BarryDeutsch<\/a>@barrydeutsch<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @CathyYoung63<\/a>\u00a0There are things that matter – youth, acting suspicious, etc – but those merit caution regardless of skin color.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    In response to my tweet about men and blacks not being identically positioned, Cathy wrote:<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n
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    \"CathyYoung63\"<\/a><\/p>\n
    Cathy Young<\/a>@CathyYoung63<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
    @barrydeutsch<\/a>\u00a0Agreed, but that doesn’t mean negative stereotypes of men are harmless (even if they are less harmful than those of blacks).<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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    7 MONTHS AGO<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

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    I replied, “I agree, they’re not harmless. But the solution is to change how some men behave so women no longer feel the need to be cautious – not to criticize women for saying that they are sometimes cautious of men.”<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n
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    P.S.\u00a0Fox News bought into<\/a>\u00a0the\u00a0#EndFathersDay<\/a>\u00a0hoax. Oy!<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n
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    Edited to add: In the comments of my blog, Charles added such a great comment that I’m adding it to the Storify:<\/i><\/p>\n

    There is also an absence in your critical analysis of an awareness of who gets harmed by the decision (or tendency) to avoid a potential street interaction, and how that differs between women avoiding street interactions with men and white people avoiding street interactions with black people.<\/p>\n

    Our society is substantially segregated by race, but not by gender, and the desire of white people to avoid interacting with black people is a major driver of that segregation. Meanwhile, women avoiding street interactions with men mostly plays out by limiting the mobility of women, so women\u2019s pattern of avoidance harms women, and white people\u2019s pattern of avoidance harms black people.<\/p>\n

    Additionally, because women and men are highly integrated in our society (most women grew up with men in their family, work with men, have male friends, etc), street interactions with strangers do not represent the overwhelming majority of women\u2019s interactions with men. This means that the psychological effects of having an aversion to interacting with strange men on the street is heavily moderated by positive interactions with men in other contexts.<\/p>\n

    Meanwhile, most white people in the US have very limited interactions with black people, so the psychological effects of viewing black people on the street as threats has very little moderating counter-balance, and plays a much larger role in setting white people\u2019s psychological biases when they interact with black people in other contexts.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    This post originally contained embedded material from Storify.com, but apparently Storify went defunct at some point. But you can read it on the internet archive, at least up until that site goes defunct someday too. In the hope of creating … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[31,93],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-18767","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-feminism-sexism-etc","category-race-racism-and-related-issues"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18767","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=18767"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18767\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":26793,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18767\/revisions\/26793"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=18767"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=18767"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=18767"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}