{"id":8012,"date":"2009-06-18T06:33:01","date_gmt":"2009-06-18T13:33:01","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.amptoons.com\/blog\/?p=8012"},"modified":"2009-06-18T06:33:01","modified_gmt":"2009-06-18T13:33:01","slug":"talking-about-talking-about-pornography","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/?p=8012","title":{"rendered":"Talking about talking about pornography"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>\u201cIf I go to the debate on pornography, I\u2019ll just fume about the fact that everyone\u2019s got stupid analysis but me.\u201d  I said that a couple of months ago, and I was joking, but only a little bit.<\/p>\n<p>Feminist discussions on sexually explicit material tend to be heated, and change no-one\u2019s mind.  The latest discussions on <a href=\"http:\/\/thehandmirror.blogspot.com\/\">The Hand Mirror<\/a>, another blog I write on, have followed this pattern.  I want to explore why.<\/p>\n<p>Media that has been created for the purpose of sexual arousal and produced to be bought and sold (which is a mouthful, but I think more precise than \u2018pornography\u2019) sits at an intersection: Desire, sex, the construction of men\u2019s sexuality, the construction of women\u2019s sexuality, bodies, work, the role of the state, objectification, the creation of rape culture and commodification (and much more, those are just what\u2019s on top for me).<\/p>\n<p>It only takes small differences in feminists\u2019 analysis, weighting or experience of a couple of these before they\u2019re coming at the issue that we call \u2018pornography\u2019 from completely different angles.<\/p>\n<p>As well as making the issue complicated, these many facets also mean that those no such thing as a disinterested party.  Everyone has a stake in what is being discussed, but what is most triggering about the discussion about sexually explicit material varies widely.<\/p>\n<p>To simplify one example  more than is really justified: discussions of sexually explicit material may trigger some women\u2019s experiences of having their sexuality and desire denied, while the same discussion might trigger other women\u2019s experience of having other people\u2019s sexuality or desire forced on them. (I don\u2019t mean this as a dichotomy, just an example of the sorts of talking past that can happen in these discussions).<\/p>\n<p>I think it\u2019s very difficult even to talk about, or articulate any of this, because the vocabulary we have around sexually explicit media is so limited.  The distinctions I think need to be made about are numerous and complex:<br \/>\nWas it made by an individual expressing their personal desires?<br \/>\nWas it made to be bought and sold?<br \/>\nDid everyone involve in making it give genuine consent?<br \/>\nDoes it normalise misogynist ideas about women, women\u2019s sexuality, women\u2019s bodies, or sex?<br \/>\nDo they normalise racist ideas about any group of women or men, their bodies or sexuality?<br \/>\nDoes it normalise a limited view of human sex or sexuality?<br \/>\nHow do the ideas it contains interact with rape culture?<br \/>\nDoes it normalise a particular type of body?<\/p>\n<p>Now the answer to most mass-produced mainstream pornography from Ralph to are yes (or no depending on the question).  But my point is that these are different questions, and they\u2019re different again from:<\/p>\n<p>What do we do about it all? What do we expect other organisation, or the state to do about it all?<\/p>\n<p>Those are just my questions, I\u2019m sure other people have different ones (I\u2019m sure I\u2019d have different ones if I wrote them on a different day, after reading different material).  Unless we are clear about what exactly we\u2019re talking about, unless we actively try and overcome the difficulties I\u2019ve outlined, we\u2019ll never have anything useful to say.<\/p>\n<p>I wrote this post &#8211; I decided to continue talking about pornography, despite my cynicism, because I think it\u2019s important.  I think untangling these threads, understanding the role of sexually explicit material in women\u2019s oppression is vital.  I think the first answer to the question: \u2018what is to be done?\u2019  Is that we have to figure out how to talk about this.<\/p>\n<p>The comments on this post are open to feminists, and feminist allies only (I appear to have forgotten how to do the rule).<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u201cIf I go to the debate on pornography, I\u2019ll just fume about the fact that everyone\u2019s got stupid analysis but me.\u201d I said that a couple of months ago, and I was joking, but only a little bit. Feminist discussions &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/?p=8012\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[31,65],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-8012","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-feminism-sexism-etc","category-sex-work-porn"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8012","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=8012"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8012\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=8012"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=8012"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/amptoons.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=8012"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}