- Make sure to read this excellent Scientific American article which very nearly destroys the “fat is death” paradigm. (Curtsey: “Alas” reader Justice.)
- This BBC article reports on a study which found that, in women, it’s healthier to have a lot of fat around the hips and thighs. “Compared to the group of women with the smallest hip circumferences, women with the biggest were found to have an 87% reduction in deaths. They also had an 86% reduced risk of having coronary heart disease and a 46% reduction in the risk of developing cardiovascular disease, according to the researchers.” (Curtsies to Kristy and Robert.)
- Stay Free! Daily has a good critique of an Independant article which implied that anorexia is all about the genes and has little to do with social norms.
- As Big Fat Blog reports, Buenos Aires, in an attempt to combat eating disorders, has passed a law forcing clothing stores to carry a range of sizes.
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The article on hip circumference doesn’t prove that fat=good health, it proves that female hormonal makeup=better health than male hormonal makeup. More often than not, if a woman has an “apple” shape rather than a “pear” shape it’s because she has a lot of androgens in her system. Not only do androgens themselves pose a greater risk of cardiovascular problems than do estrogens, but the reasons why a woman might have a more “masculine” hormonal makeup in the first place is usually a health problem that might cause complications, such as PCOS. Not to argue with your overall message that we need to stop being so uptight about fatness, but might as well tell the whole story there.
Jasper,
While I agree with your arguments that the study never showed fat itself caused good health, I do hope you are equally critical of all the studies that claim to show fat causes poor health. They suffer the same type of logical errors, leaving out major confounds, yet claiming they have enough support for a causal link between fat itself and poor health outcomes.
I’ve been peeved about the BBC article all weekend, especially this part at the end:
But she added: “It is important to consider both your body weight and shape in tandem. Controlling both by eating less and being more active is the best way to reduce your risk of heart and circulatory disease.”
Because really, I can control my body shape through dieting. It’s my fault that I have a tummy and 33 inch hips. I just don’t have the discipline to eat more “butt-fattening foods” instead of “tummy-fattening foods.” Nothing like being shaped like a boy.
Huh. Jasper, as a woman who doesn’t have the “proper” “female” hip-to-waist ratio (like my mother and her mother before her, and so on), I take offense to the notion that my body or its hormonal makeup are abnormal or “masculinized” or unfeminine, or whatever. Women tend to have a greater variety of body shapes than men, and pathologizing any of them is uncalled for.
Hold up a minute, jeez.
1. Yeah, I am skeptical of studies that say “FAT IS DEATH!” Of course. I am NOT arguing that it’s bad or wrong to argue that fatter can equal healthier. I am just saying that there might be a correlation vs causation problem with jumping to conclusions based on bigger hip size in women.
2. Why be “offended”? I mean seriously. Women with higher levels of androgens tend to be apple shaped. For instance me, and for another instance, my mother. I’m not being insulting, I am being matter-of-fact. If I was calling people names or making value judgements, I could see being offended. But since all I did was recall a fact I had read about, what on earth is there to be offended about?
The emphasis on body shape always bugged me. Especially since a few disassociated allies to fat acceptance have been known to ape it. Its not like there are magical body shaping plans, either. At most, its a point that the condemning of fat people has major holes, but I worry about it being used to seperate out the “okay” fat people from the “not okay” fat people. Diets don’t work to begin with. They certainly don’t allow for targeted fat loss.
“the reasons why a woman might have a more “masculine”? hormonal makeup in the first place is usually a health problem that might cause complications, such as PCOS.”
Sounds like pathologizing to me.
No, it’s called contextualizing. I did not say “all women bla de bla de bla, must therefore be sick!” I said “usually” which means “a lot, but not all of the time.”
You say “pathologize” like there is an inherent value judgement attached. There isn’t. Fluctuations in hormones, in both men and women, can oftentimes cause problems. Or call it “side effects” if that sounds nicer. I’m not advocating forced medication, or saying that people outside whatever hormonal norm are lesser or bad, I am just saying that there is a confounding variable at work here.
But dammit, I am not going to let the last 40 years of feminist work trying to get the medical world to actually research women’s bodies and health problems go to waste just because some people’s feelings are hurt by the notion that differing hormonal balances are not 100% benign all the time.
Batgirl, you’re right, that sucks. But that’s the mainstream media for you, I guess. Even leftist publications are usually pretty awful writing about fat.
Jasper wrote:
Hey, Jasper. Nice to see you.
Whether or not that article mentioned it, there is some reason to believe that fat around the hips can, in and of itself, have beneficial effects on health. Glenn Gaesser discusses this a bit in his book Big Fat Lies. For instance, one study of apple-shaped men found that – even in men – fatter thighs counteract the harmful effects of abdominal fat. Other studies seemed to show it was better for women to be fat and pear-shaped than to be “normal” weight.
I’m not saying you’re wrong about what you’ve written here, just that what you’ve written here isn’t the entire story.
Of course, none of this is particularly useful information, except if it helps some pear-shaped people overcome the “fat = death” mantra of the mainstream media. The bottom line, for people who want to improve their health (and there’s no law saying you have to improve your health!), is to exercise more and eat healthier food, without regard to weight or shape.
Apple-shaped people shouldn’t panic or feel doomed, either. There’s two kinds of abdominal fat, deep and subcutaneous; even mild exercise (i.e., non-stressful walking) for a half-hour a day can do a lot to reduce the deep fat, and subcutaneous fat isn’t nearly as harmful. In other words, you can retain an apple shape and still be in good health.
I know the definition of “usually”, Jasper, and that’s why I called you on it. A small percentage of “apple” shaped women do have a hormonal condition that relates to their shape, but the vast, overwhelming majority of us do not have a hormonal imbalance or any unusual health condition; our bodies and hormonal balance fall well within the average range for females.
And whether or not you personally, subscribe to it, there are plenty of people who would like to assign women to a narrow bandwidth, and pathologize anyone who dares to step out of that bandwidth, either by choice or roll of the genetic dice. The myth that women with “apple” shapes are “masculinized” is as tired as the myth that women with “pear” shapes got that way through the Secretarial Spread (*gosh*! if she just didn’t sit on her ass all the time, maybe her ass wouldn’t be so wide!). Remember, the same myths about women’s “proper” hormonal balance are used against us in the employment, political, and educational spheres as well. And historically, the medical field hasn’t had much knowledge of or respect for women, so color me skeptical about any claim of what proper hormonal balance is “supposed” to be. HRT, anyone? Trying to declare a “proper” hormonal balance is like trying to declare a proper height, for crying out loud.
Feminist work isn’t about trying to claim “real” womanhood, to the exculsion of all others, in our minds or our bodies. Considering that there have been “apple” shaped—and “pear” shaped women for millenia, you’d be hard pressed to call either an aberration.
La Lubu, it’s obvious we’re talking past each other (or something.) We’re not nearly as diametrically opposed in this argument as you seem to think. So, whatever I guess. I’m not interested in arguing any more like this.
I find the rapid acceptance of these stories (stories is the right word) amazing. I use to post a couple of blogs about health, but would get attacked. So now I post nothing about healthy living ’cause I could care less if someone wants to smoke or shove a double-whopper-cheese-bacon extreme burger down their gut. The only problem is these FAT idoits that don’t take care of their bodies will come and haunt the taxpayer when they start having to make trips to the hospital, become diebetic (on the constant increase and not due to watching TV), etc.
Women, don’t fall for the BS that it’s your hormones either (as you munch on that donut). Even people with hormone imbalances can walk, ride a bike (if they haven’t got too fat yet), park far instead of near the store door, etc. Make the choice of what goes in your hand and down your throat, and how much of it.
So with that said go enjoy some lard fries!
[snicker] He’s right. I have one of those ultra-exotic [snort] bicycles that will even hold my frightening, monstrous, 190 lb rear end ! Like, wow !! Of course, the fresh air, the exercise, the lovely scenery at the park, none of that means diddly if I can’t drop at least 60 pounds in the next six months !! I’ll just have to kill myself then. [snicker]
Now I think I’ll go have a glass of ice coffee, with a scoop of vanilla ice cream in it. Fiddle while Rome burns, I always say… :D
I enjoyed about obesity an overblown epidemic, and I think fat on thighs and hips is what we were intended to have especially when you are of child bearing years, our bodies are always ready for that posibility if you still menstrate regardless if you trying to conceive or not. this fat I have read is for pregenancy and lactating,
second I am not sure about the belly fat tho, how can you tell which fat in your belly is the deep fat and the subcutanous fat?my belly fat is like jelly and hangs down some and wiggles like jello, is the the subcutanous belly?
I do have less of the belly fat since I lost about 4 sizes and most of it was in the mid section, and my rear end too. please don’t ask me how I am doing it since it would require a book to explain, and no I am not eating less exercising more to do it either no drugs and no weight loss surgury,
I go to my doctors every year and he always checks all my hormones except esterogen, my gyn does that, so I know my thyroid is okay, my adrenals are alright and other hormones such as cortisol and testosterone and such.
so I know I am basically health except high bp, which is being treated, other than that my cholesterol and other parameters are okay.
I find it appauling that I spent most of my life trying to get skinny (even tho when I first started as a young teenager I wasn’t fat in the least but I thought I was) when in fact I was going about it all wrong and have been duped by the medical community many who were not interested in being truthful or accurate but in getting money or prestige regardless of how the false info effected me.
I wish I could slap them or sue them for all the misery they have caused me and others in our attempts at losing weight when losing weight only made me sicker and fatter in the long run.
RR