I just now finished reading the new Harry Potter novel, which I enjoyed quite a lot.
Here are some scattered thoughts. Don’t read on unless you don’t mind spoilers.
Edited to add: No, really, there are serious, serious, spoilers here – some very key plot points revealed. Don’t click unless you’ve read the novel or don’t mind spoilers at all.
Professor Snape remains not only the best character in the series, but is one of the most interesting and complex characters in all of childrens’ literature.
I loved chapter two. Of course, it was clear that Snape had to be doing exactly that – telling both sides that he was their double-agent – but it was very entertaining to witness his tap-dance act. There’s also no indication at all that Snape had been let in on the secret by Voldemort; he was just bluffing to get the women to reveal Voldemort’s plan.
Even after Snape killed Dumbledore, I remain convinced that Snape is on Dumbledore’s side; Dumbledore, in his final words, was begging Snape to not sacrifice himself on foolish heroics, and to instead stay “in character” and kill Dumbledore. For that loyalty, Snape is going to be hated and hunted by all of his actual allies, but on the bright side he will now finally be trusted and applauded by his enemies.
But despite being on the side of light and good, Snape is still an evil bastard. In particular, he was (partly) responsible for James and Lily’s death, but still uses his dislike of long-dead James as an excuse to bully James’ son Harry. Although he seems motivated by hatred of bullying, his instincts are to be a bully himself. It speaks of a meanness of character, and a self-centeredness, that’s genuinely stunning.
(Ironic that Snape invented the ankle-dangling spell that James used to torment him. Odd that he seemed so helpless in the one scene we’ve seen of his teenagehood, since we now know for sure that he was brilliant and powerful as a teenager. Perhaps in other instances, instances that he wasn’t so ashamed of (and so didn’t hide in the pensieve), he did better striking back against James. I’d be sorry if that was the case, since I rather enjoy loathing James Potter, but maybe Snape wasn’t such an innocent victim.)
The books are shaping up into a tragic dance of mutual hatred between Snape and Harry, both of them so eager to find reasons to hate the other that their judgment is horribly impaired. Harry can’t see that Snape is his ally – perhaps his strongest, now that Dumbledore’s dead; and Snape, although he knows he should support Harry, is too wrapped up in hatred of James to resist acting unforgivably to Harry every chance he gets. As the adult, it’s always been up to Snape to shape the relationship between him and Harry; and he’s done everything he can to make Harry unable to view Snape with anything but hatred.
I’m sure that Snape will end up saving the day in some essential way in book seven, but I suspect he’ll get killed by Harry regardless.
Other thoughts:
1) No great surprise that Dumbledore died; vultures were flying over his head throughout the book. Occasional “Alas” poster Elkins, who knows quite a lot about thing Potter, pointed out something interesting, which is that in alchemy, the philosopher’s stone is made through a system of refinement in which the stages are black, then white, then red – a fact that has been referred to in passing in the novels. In book 5, Black died; in book six, White died (“Albus” means “white”). If so, then Hagrid (whose name means “red”) is going to die in the next novel.
2) Elkins also speculates that Snape was in love with Harry’s mother, and that accounts for his irrationality and bitterness regarding James and Harry. Seems quite plausible to me.
3) I often wondered if Harry might not be James’ biological son at all. He looks too damn much like James; I’ve often found that suspicious, perhaps the result of a spell Lily cast to hide Harry’s father’s true identity. Hell, maybe Snape is Harry’s biological father.
(However, unlike Sarah’s speculations in #1 and #2, which I’m pretty sure will be borne out in the seventh novel, I suspect that my theory will never be supported by the text.)
4) I loved Draco breaking Harry’s nose and humiliating him at the start of the novel. About damn time. Nothing against Harry, but an alleged bully character who constantly picks on powerful peers who effortlessly beat the crap out of him is a bit weird. (Although also a bit endearing as a character trait.)
5) When will the characters learn that everything Myrtle (the weeping ghost girl) says is important to the plot, and should be paid attention to? Well, presumably, never, since it seems unlikely that she’ll figure into the seventh novel.
6) I’m getting tired of Molly being foolish and wrong all the time.
7) Nice that the vanishing cabinet, which seemed like an oddly cruel throwaway element in the previous novel, turns out to be essential.
8) I enjoyed the biography of Tom Riddle.
9) There were complete versions of this novel available for free (albeit illegal) downloads, in .pdf, word, and txt versions, less than 24 hours after the novel was released. However, I suspect that J.K., Rowling will still somehow manage to make a profit. (In case you’re wondering, the version I read was a storebought hardcover book).
10) I wonder why Snape has such an issue with being called a coward?
Anyhow, feel free to use this thread to respond to any of my comments above, or to discuss anything else Harry Potter related.
Well, shit. You said spoilers and I clicked anyway! DAMNIT!
I should be done by tomorrow. THEN I can click at will.
I see you’ve added an extra spoiler warning. Hey, it’s my own fault; I didn’t have to click on it. :p
Personally, I can’t believe that McGonagle turns out to be Voldemort in disguise. That was a shocker.
I completely agree with you about Snape bluffing when he was with Narcissa and Bellatrix and Snape being on Dumbledore’s side (the latter mostly because the idea of Dumbledore being so very wrong about someone else character is so very out of character, as would him pleading for his life.)
#5 – About the same time that Harry and Ron learn that Hermione is always at least partly right (except when she’s upset).
#7 – This is a big part of why the books continue to grow on me. I’m guessing that certain throwaway bits from the last two books will play a big part in Harry finding the Horcruxes. (Especially his inheiriting #12 Grimmauld Place, Kreacher and Mundugus stealing from him, and the intials RAB matching a member of a certain family tree).
#8 – Yes, but there was an awful lot of exposition for the second to last book.
#9 – HaHaHaHa. Yeah, I’d say so. If I’m remembering the numbers right, my bookstore did at least three times the amount of business we normally do on Friday* alone. Granted, a big chunk of our sales came from people who were waiting for the book flooding the cafe all night, but I wouldn’t be surprised to get back to work on Monday and discover that we had sold out of the several thousand copies we got in last week.
#10 – hmmmmm, I’m guessing it has somethig to do with either James Potter or having once been a Death Eater, and that it will be a plot point in book 7.
*this, of course, includes Saturday morning from 12-2 am.
“Harry, I am your father! Join with me—” Oh, wait, never mind. That’s an interesting thought, though.
10) I wonder why Snape has such an issue with being called a coward?
Jesus, Barry. In killing Dumbledore, Snape did the bravest thing anyone in the books has ever done, and no one will ever know it. “Don’t you call me a coward!” was a heartbreaking line.
He’s a complete bastard, but he’s still my hero.
Eeek, somehow was not expecting a Harry Potter review on this website! Everywhere I went this weekend there he was, along with assorted adults extoling his virtues (not to mention dressing up – at 1.30pm in a newsagents in Aberdeen – really there are limites surely!). Have been studiously trying to avoid him today – and here he is!!
I just don’t get the ‘adults reading HP’ thing – it wouldn’t be so bad, I am a great believer in live and let live, tolerance, whatever floats your boat etc – if only friends would stop trying to ‘convert’ me – ain’t never gonna happen.
Anyway all you HP fans out there- glad you enjoyed it, I am really pleased that JK has done so well – but have mercy on those of us who just don’t want to read them.
Eeek, somehow was not expecting a Harry Potter review on this website! Everywhere I went this weekend there he was, along with assorted adults extoling his virtues (not to mention dressing up – at 1.30pm in a newsagents in Aberdeen – really there are limites surely!). Have been studiously trying to avoid him today – and here he is!!
I just don’t get the ‘adults reading HP’ thing – it wouldn’t be so bad, I am a great believer in live and let live, tolerance, whatever floats your boat etc – if only friends would stop trying to ‘convert’ me – ain’t never gonna happen.
Anyway all you HP fans out there- glad you enjoyed it, I am really pleased that JK has done so well – but have mercy on those of us who just don’t want to read them.
Sorry about the double post, my laptop is being very weird just now (hmmm, hope it’s not related to my HP non-enthusiasm…).
The spelling mistake is just down to my lazy proofing.
Anyway keep up the good work on everything else.
Leslie,
The actual post that shows on the front page is like two inches tall – it’s easily skippable. Feel free to complain all you want about HP, but I think it’s a little rude to ask/suggest that the person running the site not to talk about a book he obviously enjoys just because you don’t.
Robert and ginmar,
I have a co-worker who says that when the third movie came out he kept going up to the people in line and telling them “Wolverine dies!”
(and psst, Robert, it’s McGonagal)
Yeah, way to out my real first name to the fandom, Barry.
(No worries. I think by now it’s such a well-known secret that it’s, well, really not much of one anymore.)
I must say that I was horribly amused to see you posting about HP here.
Just a coupla points.
“Snape Loved Lily” is hardly my speculation. It’s a very popular fanspec that has been around since the very beginning of the series. On HPfGU, it often goes by the name of “The Good ‘Ship LOLLIPOPS.” (“Love Of Lily Left Ire, Polluting Our Poor Severus”)
To be perfectly honest, I really hate The Good Ship LOLLIPOPS. I would far prefer to see eros left out of the equation altogether, ’cause I prefer my Snape all Kantian and good shit like that.
But I do think it’s becoming an increasingly probable speculation as the series progresses.
Robert:
“Personally, I can’t believe that McGonagle turns out to be Voldemort
in disguise. That was a shocker.”
Minerva McGonagall Is Ever So Evil!
And agreed with Kip, on all counts re: Snape.
The end of Book Six was basically the end of Book Three revisited. It was a far more serious reprise of the endgame of Prisoner of Azkaban, in which Snape heroically re-enacts the most traumatic experience of his teenaged years by heading down to the Shrieking Shack in the middle of the night to protect his charges from Mass Murderer Black and his accomplice, the Werewolf Lupin–only to get attacked, vilified, mocked, reminded of his dreadful past, and made to look like a right ass in front of the Minister For Magic for all his pains.
His capslock explosion at the end of HBP was a revisitation of his nervous breakdown at the end of PoA. Except, well, you know. Magnified about a thousandfold.
Barry, why are you doing this to me? Dammit, man, I have left the fandom! Left it, I say!
As a point, there are a few very interesting posts on why it is very bad to read the end of this book as Snape doing a complicated triple-cross. I continue to be of two minds about whether he’s really good or bad: on the one side, I think that this very elaborate game is a bad trick to end the series on, and makes the books more about Snape than they need to be; on the other side, if Snape truly is bad, it makes for an incredibly simplistic moral universe. I hope JKR has a solution to this, but given her occasionally simplistic solutions (Cedric! I am still bitter about this), I am unsure.
For all that (including the plain predictability of most of the last few chapters), I think this book came close in caliber to the first 3, far better than 4 and 5. The plan to leave Hogwarts shocked me — it was the right move, but I was not at all expecting it.
Oh, wait. I outed myself just last winter, didn’t I.
Right. I’d forgotten. Nevermind then.
Ack, whatever happened to my first two links? Trying again.
JennyK
I was not and would never tell Ampersand what to write – just trying (but obviously not hard enough) to be funny about my unfortunate antipathy towards HP.
I was genuinely surprised to see the review having thought I would be safe at my favourite blog in my efforts to avoid HP today at – and couldn’t resist making a comment, but will in the future.
Anyway, Ampersand I hope you didn’t take my comment as a serious attempt to stop you writing about HP – put it down to my weird Scottish/Glaswegian sense of humour not travelling well. I’ll shut up now and resume my usual lurking behaviour.
Leslie,
I may have been too harsh on you, partly because what you said just resembled all the guys on dKos and Drums site constantly asking “can we focus on something important?” everytime a “woman’s issue” is brought up just a bit too much for my peace of mind. Not um, that I consider HP to be equal with the wage gap, ;) – just that I have developed a bit of a knee jerk reaction to people who feel the need to post on topics they find “unworthy” or “annoying” simply to say that they find such topics unworthy or annoying, without giving any arguments as to why others should see them that way.
Please don’t go back to lurking! I wasn’t trying to say that I don’t want to hear your opinions (including that you don’t like HP)! Just that I’d prefer a bit more than just that you don’t want to hear about it.
Elkins,
Great point about PoA and HPB, I hadn’t made that connection.
I also see a bit of a pattern in terms of light/dark books. While the series in general keeps getting darker, it also seems very cyclical to me (starting with PoA, anyway). Book 3 starts very dark, but ends on a light note, book 4 starts out very light, but ends on a dark note, book five was very dark all the way through, but despite Harry still being in mourning in book 6, it isn’t substantially darker than book 5 until the end.
I had the same thought about Snape not really knowing what Voldemort had told Draco to do, until I realized that Bellatrix would most assuredly mention this to Voldemort and if Snape didn’t really know, he’d be outed. I don’t think Snape would take that chance. I’m going back and forth on him being evil/not. I do agree that it would be a let-down if he’s really been evil all this time, and a little simplistic, which I don’t think JKR is.
I too believe that Snape is still working for Dumbldore, for the very simple reason of he has never been wrong. And I can’t start thinking he is now, it’s just too scary of a road to go down! I do wonder how, if ever, will Snape be able to explain to Harry though. And why the heck did Dumbledore freeze Harry under his cloak, prevent him from helping?
Leslie, no worries. I got that you were joking, and thought it was funny. I hope you won’t really decide never to post here again – now that would make me sad!
Erin:
Actually, I don’t think he would be “outed.” Yes, Voldemort would know that Snape uses intellectual manipulation to try and find out the secrets that other Death Eaters know – but I don’t think that’s an unusual way for Death Eaters to act. In fact, I suspect The Dark Lord rather enourages and expects that sort of intra-Death-Eater plotting.
R.A.B. is Regulus Black, Sirius’ brother
Oh, and Leslie, it was probably also very much my still trying to recover from working until 3 am Friday night, then working another 8 hr shift on Saturday (most of which I spent trying to avoid being accidentaly spoiled by customers and coworkers), then spending most of Sunday finally reading the damn book that made me oblivious the fact that you were joking. Apologies again for taking you too seriously.
Presumably Narcissa told Draco that Snape would help, so even if Snape didn’t know what he agreed to at the time, he almost certainly found out shortly after.
If we’re looking for red-related people to die, well, there are a lot of Weasleys who have been very lucky so far, too.
Maybe next book there will be some version of ‘hey, women do stuff in books too’, but I doubt it. Yes, Hermione is important, but she pales in comparison to Ron, and the great leap forward in Ginny in OotP was not really continued in this book.
That book 7 would not be a Hogwarts book *floored* me; as, in fact, did Fawkes’s leaving. Both of these were the right moves — the only way the book could progress — but (unlike the death and the identity of the HBP) I never imagined them coming. I hope that Fawkes returns, somehow, in the final book.
If R.A.B is black’s brother, then slytherin’s locket is likely in #12 grimmauld place which harry inherited.
No one ever seems to come up with the theory that was so obvious to me that I was looking for it to be revealed in the denouement.
Not only did Snape not turn, but he accepted the Unbreakable Vow on Dumbledore’s orders. Dumbledore was not following a blind lead, and he did find the 1st horcrux — and activated it. The horcrux was the potion, not the locket, and the reason Dumbledore was weakened and truly frightened was because he was fighting Voldemort for his soul and wasn’t sure he’d be able to finish his task in time…which was to die. He called Snape in specifically for that purpose, and the hate and loathing in Snape’s expression wasn’t for Dumbledore…it was for Voldemort.
Perhaps the red herring of the locket was dealt with by the simple expedient that the barrier around it let through anyone who was a death eater or who had Voldemort’s soul, which is how RAB (probably Reg. Black) was able to swap lockets thinking he’d thwarted his former master in a betrayal.
So yeah, I think Snape will save Harry yet again, and probably sacrifice himself for him.
oh yeah…and further…do you really think that Dumbledore would be wrong about the Horcrux being there…after all that talk of knowing Tom Riddle’s style and the strength of the magic and all? The Horcrux was definitely there, and Dumbledore knew exactly what it was all along. He’d gotten the information from RAB. :)
The locket is no longer at 12 Grimmauld place, as Mundungus has stolen and (probably) sold it. It was there in book 5, when they mention ‘a heavy locket which none of them could open’.
Yup, yup, yup, about the locket. It’s very like JKR to add in throwaway bits like Mundugus and Kreacher stealing from Sirius and Harry and have it turn out to be really important information. I wonder if Regulus managed to find some of the other Horcruxes and that one of them is in Kreacher’s horde of Black family heirlooms.
Re: leaving Hogwarts. I think that they will come back for a while, or that something important will happen there, only because the connection between CoS and HBP suggest that Dumbledore’s remark in CoS that “I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me… Help will always be given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it.” means more than just Fawkes helping Harry in CoS.
Yes, which is why I keep hope alive that Fawkes will return in some way in book 7: the repetition of “Dumbledore is still around in spirit” suggests there’s something else going on. I am sure Hogwarts will be around a bit — if nothing else, for Harry to get a job as DADA teacher, as people are suggesting all over — but I am still amazed that she ripped the series out of itself (one book for each year at Hogwarts).
(Does anyone else think Dumbledore set up a Horcrux of his own at some point?
(No?
(Right, then.)
Kip
For an instant as I was reading the last chapter I had the same idea – and hope – and then I remembered that splitting up your soul is a very bad thing to do.
After thinking about it, I believe that Snape is still working for Dumbledore so to speak and that killing Dumbledore was the only for Snape to get closer to Voldemort and possibly kill the Hocrux closest to him, the Snake?
hi .. i was disapointed by the latest Half blood prince book .. it wasnt excitin as the prev ones .. but then it answered lots of questions we all had in our minds.. Now that Dumbledore is dead harry potter is alone to defend the wizardin world from Lord Voldemort . Many ppl expected this would happen and it did. Now that the we also know that there are Horcuxes and stuff. This answers how the diary had a life on its own in the Chamber of Secrets book . I also have come across so many ppl saying that in the last chapterof the final book that JK Rowling has already penned long back harry potter wil not be there .. that is he wil die in the end .. Now i am havin a vague answer to about every thing that seemed to have happend till now .. I think Harry potter is the LAST HORCUXE that lord voldemort had accidently created and therefore harry potter dies makin voldemort mortal .. and then lord voldy dies .. I came to this conclusion based on so many things .. There is always a connection between voldemort and harry from the first book .. he always feels what the lord is upto .. and den the fact that harry dies ( which is still a rumour) in the last book.. Hope that JK is not too obvious abt the endin .. even i pray that wat ever i expected to happen shouldnt happen .. cos it spoils the fun of readin the book ..
i agree wid the fact that snape might be a good guy after all . Its pretty obvious that dumbledore wud hv anyway died wid all the death eaters surroundin him .. so think snape wen he killed dumbledore wil make him closer to lord voldemort and there by can help harry by acting as a spy .. lets see..
Does anyone else think that it is strange that Dumbledore died right after giving Draco a long speech detailing the benefits of having the world believe that you are dead? After all, as it says in one of the other books, you can’t kill someone with avada… unless you really have the will to do it. And pleading for his life? No, more likely he was pleading for Snape to try the very difficult task of “almost” killing Dumbledore, who could then hunt down the remaining horcruxes alone and return later with a surprise for Voldemort. As for not returning to Hogwarts, it seems more likely that someone will come along and convince him to do it over the summer.
Does anybody else think that Harry is one of Voldemort’s Horcruxes?
It might explain why infant Harry didn’t die when Voldemort tried to kill him–Voldemort wasn’t trying to kill him–and why Voldemort wants to destroy Harry himself–it’s the only way to keep Harry alive until he can ensure that there’s no one left to get in his way. And Harry’s burning scar and insights into Voldemort’s thoughts during the first few books makes more sense, too. Somehow the “He transferred some of his power to Harry when he tried to kill him” argument never really worked for me.
It’d be a brilliant idea on Voldemort’s part. This way, he lives on no matter what. Unless Harry dies, too–by Neville’s hand, perhaps. Now that would be a plot twist.
odanu:
I’m not sure about the potion being the Horcrux. Wouldn’t RAB have consumed it, then, when he went for the locket the first time?
Aw, crap. Looks like Sharath got to my theory first. Serves me right for not reading to the end of the comments.
Anyhow, I agree with Sharath.
Hestia..
RAB was a death eater. I’ve already opined that the setup was that a death eater would be able to penetrate the surface and go for the red herring without realizing the import of the potion itself…a second layer of defense. And Dumbledore really understood magic. He stated several times that he was positive that the horcrux was there. I simply can’t fathom him being that wrong, unless we’ve been misled about his wizardly abilities for six books, in which case its very poor (and sloppy) writing, and frankly I don’t think JKR is sloppy, no matter what else she is.
odanu,
I can deal with Dumbledore being wrong about that more than I can deal with him being so very wrong about Snape.
It’s not as if he was completely wrong (the Horcrux was there – just not anymore) and it’s not like he’d necessarily have any idea that someone else already knew about it.
I do like your theory (mostly because it explains ow Dumbledore found out about this Horcrux and because it gives more evidence to the idea that Dumbledore knew he was going to die), I’m just not convinced – yet.
Hestia,
While assuredly thought-provoking, the theory of Harry being a horcrux himself doesn’t follow suit with the theme of Harry’s greatest strength being his family’s love and THAT is why he is saved. Along the same lines, I think that it is interesting that no-one has yet written about how this theme will play out in the 7th book. I don’t think that the teenage love triangles happening in the 6th are completely superfluous. I think that they mesh nicely with this misunderstood power that Harry has and should return full circle in the last book. Without a doubt Ginny will prove to be an essential new character.
Just gonna through this out there, since I just finished the book too. Don’t they have paintings of all former headmasters is Dumbledore’s office? If so, wouldn’t a talking, moving, basically alive version of Dumbledore be in there? Hmmm. I’m no harry potter mega geek, so does anyone else know?
If you are interested what Rowling has to say about if snape is evil or not, go to mugglenet.com to see the first part of what will probably be the most informative interview ever with the author (She did an exclusive interview with her 2 favorite big fan sites). It’s still debatable though, according to the people arguing about how she phrased it.
My only thought was that Snape attacked the messenger (Flitwick) getting him to help the order of pheonix during the last battle scene. Why would he do that if he’s good?
buckydabadger – good points re: Harry being a Horcrux (and it’s a good think I have two more years to mull this over).
Sergio, I was wondering about that too. I’m assuming there are portraits of him somewhere, but how does it work exactly? Do they simply retain the personality of the person painted, or are they something more?
Great book, much better than the 5th anyway.
Snape is probably the person who knows Dumbledor(rip) best after harry. It is for tis reason that Snape kills Albus. He kills albus to save Malfoy. Wen in the cave albus tells harry that his life is more precious than his and I think that albus would apply this principle even to Malfoy and realising this Snape kills Albus.
Snape has a lot to play in the next book. Talking about the next book its gonna be sooooooooooo long considering Harry has to find the 4 pieces and kill Snape and Voldermort or die trying.
6th book has many similarities with THE LORD OF THE RINGS, even in TLOTR frodo has to go about destroying a ring into which the bad guy has put his soul which is similar to the Horcruxes. Probably the last Horcrux is Harrys scar or something.
Did someone already write this?
It seems to me that Dumbledore might himself be a phoenix and hence the flames and Fawks when his body turned to the white tomb. Surely, he’ll be back.
Hestia,
Was very interested in the thought that Moriy might have left a horcrux in Harry; but wasn’t one of the attempts to kill Harry during the battle in the Ministry in the last book when Voldemort attempted to inhabit Harry’s body ““ but couldn’t because of the “extra Powers” Harry possess? Ergo, Voldemort’s soul wouldn’t be able to exist within Harry for the same reasons (which were again alluded to by Dumbledore in this book as well) thoughts?
and i would just like to add that i disagree that love story is distracting– i actually wanted more business about them being just teenagers. that’s what makes the books so compelling for me– the character development. they are so real, so fleshed-out, so human. the more i learn about who they are, what they do– from the mistakes they make to the sweetest smallest gesture– the more gleeful i become while reading (that’s why book 5 is my favorite– all that “other” stuff). beyond the fantastic, the magic, and the adventures (which are, of course, utterly wonderful), i love the minutiae. the tiny details that make it as real as a book about bunch of kids in a regular school in any place, any time. it’s what makes it so easy for me to imagine myself as a student at hogwarts, as a gryffindor, observing friends in the common room. like watching people unfold on a reality tv series or just people watching at the park, the beautifully described elements of people being people is what makes me so very curious about harry potter’s world.
Jessica,
I think you are on to something…
I do believe that Dumbledore did have a Phoenix as his Petronus. And it did seem that he was pretty deliberate in having Harry lead him down the path toward his demise.
I think he knew what he was doing. Look for Book Seven – The Return of Dumbledore the White!
also, as i ride the high that always seems to come with finishing the latest harry potter, i can’t stop thinking/ talking about it.
my feelings, though perhaps disorganized at the moment, about snape as good/ evil all tie into the title of the book.
as we find out in the end that harry’s potions come from a book that belonged to snape, but as harry has gotten to know him, to the half blood prince, we realize that, in a way,
rowling felt that snape was important enough to name her book after.
stepping outside his mother’s maiden name or the idea of muggle v pure blood, half blood prince could perhaps suggest that snape is, in part, really a good person struggling to do the right thing.
half of him still looms in the darker side of things, but in this book, the princely, the honorable side of him triumphs. again, his actions (as a “prince” — a good guy) are so crucial that they entitle him to- well- the title.
remember, there is the side that torments harry in class but there is also the person that harry admired, that harry took after in a way. the guy who filled that text book full of interesting ideas and led harry to some very important information– saved ron, won him the potion.
snape is not a nice guy, not even a good guy, but he’s on the right side and he did exactly what dumbledor (his greatest ally) wanted (i also think the “please” was a ‘please do this snape’– in the way he had to remind harry in the cave that he had promised to do his bidding no matter what– even if he didn’t feel right about it)– as much as he loathed to do so. and as snape, he kept harry from commiting crimes, from being killed. i think, because he is lily’s son, snape has a love for harry somewhere.
anyways, i think in book 7, we are going to see many more similarities between snape and harry and that we are going to see just how brave snape really is.
First of all, Regulus Black can’t be RAB because that’s too obvious. Everyone will be thinking that, so Rowling will make it someone else to surprise them. Whoever RAB is wouldn’t give his or her real name or initials (to Voldemort) for the obvious reasons, so RAB has to be a code or an acronym (e.g., really astonishingly bad, rabid angry bolshevik, etc.). Snape is clearly the hero (or Miltonian anti-hero) of the entire series and the most interesting, perhaps only interesting, character. I propose Snape is RAB.
Jimbo has the right idea when he says “The Return of Dumbledore the White!” How could Dumbledore be anything but Gandalf-like? Didn’t anyone see the movies, with Ian McKellen as both Dumbledore and Gandalf?
Everyone is forgetting that Dumbledore said (more than once?) that he can/has/will make mistakes, and that his mistakes (being Dumbledore’s mistakes) would be greater than others with greater consequences – i.e. his mistake about Snape. I don’t think I’m making this one up…
Snape may still end up saving the day in the end, but not because he has always been loyal. He killed Dumbledore because he is a death eater. He entered into the unbreakable vow knowingly – LeStrange didn’t expect him to do it, neither did Narcissa Malfoy – he easily could have told them that Voldemort knew what he was doing, or some million other excuses. Maybe not so predictable that Narcissa would ask him to do it for Draco, but he easily could have gotten out of it with an angry retort. He is already thought of as Voldemort’s most trusted advisor – there is not much more of a need to gain more trust, although killing Dumbledore should rank pretty high up there…
Dumbledore also expected to tell Harry about how he injured his hand (somewhere along the lines, they assume something about the Slytherin ring burning his hand, but there is no explanation for the connection – edited out?) and other stories/explanations he never had time to tell Harry. If he knew he was going to die, he likely would have tol d Harry before then. (Or, of course, maybe he didn’t know WHEN it was going to happen…)
Maybe Dumbledore’s iron clad reason is another Trelawney prophecy that Snape will help lead to Voldemort’s downfall?
Also, Harry’s instincts about Snape have now been proven to always have been right. Why would JKR build Harry’s hatred of Snape over all 6 books just to show that Harry was wrong in the end? Again, if Snape helps out in the end, it will be a last minute redemption type scene. This would avoid the ‘simplistic’ angle complained of above.
I can see the idea of Harry being the horcrux, and Harry killing himself when he realizes he can’t kill Voldemort in the end – all curses failing – with Voldemort laughing about it, then screaming as he sees what Harry is about to do…then they both disappear.
RAB? Who knows – but Harry will obviously need some help on this new “quest” from someone else who knows about the horcruxes. Regulus makes sense, with the whole locket at the Black house and all. That Nigellus (sp.) portrait also seems to be playing a bigger role. Mundangus will have at least one horcrux, maybe the locket, but won’t be helpful, other than to lead Harry to the next clue.
Anyway, I’m for Snape being plain old evil. That’s what Harry truly believes , and he should be validated for sticking to his guns. He is teh chosen one, after all. We’ll just have to wait a couple more years to find out.
Ian McKellan wasn’t Dumbledore…
Richard Harris and Michael Gambon–
but he would have been really great…
I TOTALLY second Jessica’s sentiments, here. I think JK does an excellent job of not overdoing the love stories. She instead gently incorporates them so that they actually ADD to the plots, and to the believability of the characters, without overwhelming the plot. And this is really important to me. I mean, this is what keeps me coming back to these books over and over. Who out there has not secretly had a crush on one of your friends? And who has not been totally elated at the hint that a long-nurtured attraction might be returned? I love these characters because I can identify with them. Without that, what would be the point?
As for Snape being good or bad, I definitely (like many of you, it seems) still harbor the belief that he is good but misunderstood. And I believe that Dumbledore was asking for him to do what he had to do at the end. But that didn’t keep me from crying the whole time I was reading the final 20 pages of the book. I, personally, don’t think Dumbledore’s faking it. I don’t think he’ll magically return at the end somehow. Maybe his picture on the wall at Hogwarts (which they DO refer to) will give some more sound advice, but that’s not the same as having the man. And, to me, the fact that I had such a visceral reaction to the death of a fictional character is proof that JK is doing something right when she includes those little details that make these characters so real and so lovable.
What I think Is, yes, Regullus had wanted a revenge for the death of his brother and had went after the 3rd discovered horcrux.
Also, Do you remember when Mundungus had been caught In hogsmeade stealing the stuff from Black’s house? Some people think he wanted money, I think he is a death eater for Voldemort and is planning to keep the 2 or 3 remaining horcruxes in safety.
Here is a list of the Horcruxes:
T.M. Riddle’s Diary (Destroyed)
Voldemorts Grandfather’s Ring (Destroyed)
Salazar Slytherin’s Locket (Replaced With Fake By Supposed Regullus Black)
Possibly the Scales that the “Girl” was holding and broke and hermione repaired.
Something from Godric Gryffindor (not the sword)
Something From Rowena Ravenclaw (Possibly the heir of ravenclaw has it)
oh yeah…and further…do you really think that Dumbledore would be wrong about the Horcrux being there…after all that talk of knowing Tom Riddle’s style and the strength of the magic and all? The Horcrux was definitely there, and Dumbledore knew exactly what it was all along. He’d gotten the information from RAB. :)
…he does know tom riddle’s style…the note left by RAB lets us know that the locket WAS there, but was already removed by someone else. And why would Dumbledore mislead Harry and not tell him the Horcrux was the potion afterall? Everyone knows Harry wouldn’t let Dumbledore drink it then, but if Dumbledore dies, then Harry still believes that he must find the locket and that the Horcrux was not distroyed. He would still think there was one Horcrux out there and would therefore waste time looking for it.
while i like the idea, i don’t think the potion in the basin in the cave can be the horcrux.
if RAM came before Dumbledore and Harry, than in order to remove and replace then locket, he would have first had to imbide the potion and it would be gone. but because it rematerialized, it seems to be just another magical block to keep people from reaching the locket.
unless it’s a deatheater thing… but then wouldn’t he know that it’s the potion not the locket?
hmmm…
In response to Jeremy, why would the scales the have been a horcrux? I don’t think they are one. Also, you failed to mention hufflepuff’s cup. That is sure to be one, as is the snake. Also, I’m not sure about your theory on Regulus. How could he be mad about his brothers death if he had already dies 15 years earlier as was stated in book 5? I do agree that Mundungus is not as harmless as he seems. His thievery of items from #12 is sure to be of some importance.
questions:
1) why did dumbledore show Slug the ring on dumbledores hand when dumbledore took harry to Slugs house?
2)if snape is really a death eater and hate muggles and all then why does he live in a small house in a muggle village?
3)why did tom riddle go to work at ‘Borgin and Burkes’? just because he liked the dark arts? and another thought both owners of the shop have last names that end in B and while Burkes first name is known (and thus cant be RAB), Borgin’s first name is not and leaves him as a candidate. and remember that the witch that Tom stole the locket from, originally bought the locket from Borgin and Burkes. maybe they wanted it back?
4) why did the death eaters attack the ‘other ministers’ second in command (or who ever he was)?
5) why did dumbledore take harry on such a dangerous mission of which a fully qualified wizard would have been better suited? the boat that dumbledore and harry used to get across the lake (that could only hold one magical person) is not an answer because obviously RAB did it. thus if RAB did it, it either means he did it alone (thus no point of dumbledore to bring harry and dumbledore didnt really have to drink it) or that RAB found a way to bring someone else across the lake (unless RAB also brought an underage 16 year old).
7) where did all the inferi come from that are at the bottom of the lake?
8) who was the person tom killed to put part of his soul in the diary while he was still at Hogwarts? Mooning Myrtle?
9) wasn’t random that aragog died? I know that it helped get the information from Slug, but it still seemed all of the sudden.
pointing out:
1) the prophecy says that one cant live while the other does (or something like that) thus if harry must kill himself to kill the dark lord….well it doesn’t make sense.
Just thinking out loud
I don’t know guys… I kind of think we’re giving Snape too much credit… Somethings not right…
I do think that Snape’s forgivness is far too predictable, whether he is innocent or not I think there will be much more depth than expected, and if R.A.B (who I beleive is a character that surely will have been mentioned beforehand) managed to get hold of the locket who did he take with him (under 17 year old)?????perhaps the A stands for And??? Any thoughts?
I don t know if this theory is wright but i would like to share it with you. Since the idea of Dumbledore pleading for life is kind of awkward, i think he was most likely asking Snape to kill him and don t ruin the aliby on the fight agains Voldemort. They both know Oclumency and Legerimancy (whatever reading other minds is). And that would be also the issue that Snape has about being called “coward” since it was probably really hard to kill Dumbledore without really wanting to. And, it would also make sense since Dumbledore would be totally trusting Snape as he always did.
Okay, with two new teachers needed for next year, I’m betting Tonks is placed as the new Transfiguration teacher, and Shacklebolt is named the new DADA teacher – unless they can convince Mad Eye to do it…again, sort of .
Also, did anyone else notice that Snape’s mother would have been at Hogwarts the same time as Tom Riddle which coincides to the original opening of the Chamber of Secrets?
A great book with a very stark ending; Rowling has the courage to destroy the cozy world she’s so meticulously built up – before it’s literary qualities have disappeared. Note how the familiar themes like the ghosts, house-elves etc are “phased out” – they are there, but play no crucial part, having already been long introduced. The exception is Moaning Myrtle, but note that her interaction with Malfoy is accounted for very briefly. Yes, Hogwarts has revealed its secrets and played out its role. It’s been a great time, but now Harry has grown up!
But what I simply don’t get is why Fawkes capabilites are ignored in Dumbledore´s death scene. He could obviously be summoned instantly – see the final fighting at the end of HP2 as well as HP5 – and protect his master (or Harry) in a critical moment.
I don’t see why Fawkes does not swoop down on Malfoy, who wastes his momentum igniting the bird (no harm done). Meanwhile, Dumbledore gets his wand again and makes short shrift of Malfoy.
Unless of course Dumbledore wanted to die, for some obtuse reason left unexplained until the last book.
This book, while not the most eventful in the series, did more to advance the plot and left more to ponder and conjecture about than any other. While I like the idea that Snape killed Dumbledore to keep his cover, since when did having a spy count for more than having the most powerful wizard in the world alive and on the good side? I still think Snape is on the Order’s side but i can’t back it up with any evidence. As far as Mundugus Fletcher stealing the locket from #12, what happened to it when he was sent to Azkaban, does the ministry have it? Does Kreacher? Or perhaps Bellatrix, Kreacher’s favorite family member. I do agree that #7 is going to be a very long book (i am predicting well over 1000 pages) having to attend a wedding, go to his parents’ house(surely to be eventful), having to locate and destroy 4 horcruxes, and have a final, hopefully mortal battle with Lord Voldemort who is now, with the death of Dumbledore, the uncontested, most powerful wizard in the world. Even if Harry manages to destroy the soul fragments and make Voldemort mortal, how will he ever manage to duel competitively with him? With all of this going on, I think that Neville will become an impact character. His role in the last 3 books has dramatically increased and his presence in the prophecy is undeniable. I also believe that Hagrid is going to die. So far in Harry’s life there have been 5 adults that have been very close to Harry: Lily, James, Sirius, Dumbledore, and Hagrid. 4 of whom are dead (just a thought). But after all, we’ll just have to wait until the next installment is released to quiet all theories and rumors (which JK will almost certainly prove all wrong).
***Much speculation about HP7 follows***
Let’s look at this like writers…
JK is a master of using “cast off” elements of previous books as intregal plot elements in later books. As such, I feel that all of the pieces we need to understand the 7th book “Harry Potter and the Sixth Horcrux” are already in play.
I do believe that Regulus Black is RAB, but that we will have to take a ride similar to that where we watched Tom Riddle evolve in order to get there. I believe that Slytherin’s necklace was at Number 12, and that it was stolen by Mundungus. I also believe that Kreacher will have tucked away Hufflepuff’s cup, and that it will be disposed of quickly. If it’s there, all Harry has to do is ask his houseelf for it. He will have to fetch it – or he may smash it himself out of spite toward Harry.
There will be a chase as Harry sets off after Mundungus. As to the old theif being crafty or a Death Eater…I really doubt that. He would no doubt deal with the shady characters that are Voldemort’s followers, but he would have no convictions (except gold) one way or the other. That makes him nearly useless to both sides.
Nearly, that is. The fact is that he “aquires” things that are hard to find. He’s a petty theif and a fence, but he undoubtely has the necklace. He is in extreme danger and one can only guess that he will die somewhere around page 300 of the seventh book.
I beleive that Snape will show up at that point with some sort of story about Dumbledore telling him to carry out his orders no matter what they were – just like what he told Harry. He will insist that he was forced to kill Dumbledore in order to maitain his cover and to win the Dark Lord’s graces. He will show his good faith by giving Harry the location of the Ravenclaw artifact.
This could be anything, and to stretch the plot while we get exposition on Ron and Hermione’s relationship, as well as the final word on Snape, it will be very hard to reach. Remember that when Dumbledore went after the ring, he was injured quite badly. I think it will take a combination of Harry, Ron, and Hermione to reach the Ravenclaw item. They will find it and destroy it, with Hermione and Ron arguing all the while about whether Snape is on their side or if he has just led them all into a trap.
Now, as for that sixth horcrux…
Harry is going to see Nagini there, in the locked crypt after he destroys the Ravenclaw horcrux. Perhaps she was drawn by the spilt power of her master’s soul as it drains away, or perhaps she just arrived too late to protect the item. It doesn’t really matter.
I believe that Harry will talk to Nagini and that there will still be a surprise or two thrown in. It’s all a stall while Voldemort seals the place up and traps Harry – alone – for the final confrontation.
Harry gloats as Voldemort appears, empowered by the thought of having destroyed the Dark Lord’s only friend and the final horcrux. Voldemort is unfazed, though. He can’t love. The death of Nagini is nothing to him. Another weak follower has fallen.
Dumbledore was right when he said that living beings are bad places in which to store fragments of a soul. Anything that thinks and breaths – that has a soul of its own will corrupt and change the fragment of evil that has been placed there. It was said early on that part of Voldemort’s power was transfered to Harry when he tried to kill him. I suspect that it was more than that.
Voldemort used the killing curse on Harry’s mother, breaking off a piece of his soul. At that moment, he turned his wand upon Harry and found that Lilly’s love protected him. He could not hurt him. The curse was turned back upon him and he had only a second in which to preserve one last part of himself – the fragment of his soul that he had just ripped out.
He placed it into the object at which his wand was aimed.
Dumbledore knew that Nagini was not the final horcrus, but he did not tell Harry that. Imagine if he had told the boy that HARRY was the final horcrux and then died? How would Harry, a boy bent on revenge anyway, take this news?
No, better to keep that hidden until the right time.
Harry will discover that he is the final piece of the puzzle during the fight and will ultimately sacrifice himself in some way that leaves the both of them dead. With all seven pieces of his soul now destroyed, Voldemort will be vanquished.
And Ron and Hermione will name their first son Harry.
In response to # 10, I know someone said this already, but it was because he killed Dumbledore that he has an issue with being called a coward. He is now Voldemort’s favorite, if he wasn’t before, and still being good, which I believe he is, he is thrown deeper into the evil side, and the good side, which he is on, hates him. He feels horrible that he killed Dumbledore, the only one who ever truly trusted him, and was hsi friend. THAT is why he doesn’t want Harry to call him a coward. And why else is he still good???? Because as he was running away, he kept telling harry to shut his mouth and close his mind. He was still helping him. Harry is just too hellbent on hating Snape to see it.
Ah, thanks for letting me do that. . :-)
Throughout the Harry Potter books the question of snape’s true alleigance was alwasy there. IN this book it seems to get alot more confusing. In the beggining when he is tlaking to Narcissa and Bella it seems as though he is tricking them into telling him the plan, meanig that he is on dumbledores side. But when Dumbledore is tlkaing to Draco, towards the end of the book. Draco tells him that snape has been working on his mothers orders and that he was really loyal to voldermort and not him. Dumbledore replied to this not saying that he knew it was tre but saying that snape was just saying that. We, the reader, saw him take an unbreakable vow. Thus, dumbledores ignorance seems to mean that snape was not being truthfull to him afterall.
Any ideas?
Furthermore, Harry believes that the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape was because he apologized for lilly and james’ death. I dont think that can be the reall reason. Can Dumbledore really have been so foolish? I dont think so!
Any answers? PLease post em
Crookshanks
I believe that u are a genius if you are right , I must say that i agree with everything except for the fact that the hufflepuff cup will not be in 12 grimauld place because i am lost as to how the cup would have gotten there in the first place. The cup would not be a part of the black family heirloom
I agree with a lot that has been said already, especially that RAB is Regulus Black. This is my theory: Regulus somehow gained information about the Horcrux, since he was a Death Eater. Since he had the Dark Mark, he was able to pass through the potion without drinking it (just as Snape passes through the barrier during the fight at the Astronomy Tower at the end of Book 6), therefore replacing Slytherin’s locket with the fake one. He stashes it in #12 Grimmauld Place, but is killed by Voldemort before he can tell anyone about it. However Mundungus or Kreacher could have stolen it, and Mundungus could have sold it.
I also believe that Voldemort didn’t make Nagini a Horcrux. Instead, 4 of the 7 Horcruxes are from each House of Hogwarts, 2 have been destroyed (the ring and the diary), and the part of the soul within Voldemort himself. Slytherin’s horcrux is the locket (in Grimmauld Place, or sold by Mundungus), Hufflepuff’s is the cup (which we don’t know the location of yet), Ravenclaw has a Horcrux that we don’t know of yet, and the Gryffindor Horcrux is Harry himself. James and Lily Potter’s house was in Godric’s Hollow, which is one possible connection to Godric Gryffindor. Supprting this is also the fact that Harry was able to pull Gryffindor’s sword out of the Sorting Hat in the 2nd book; Dumbledore then tells Harry that only a true Gryffindor would have been able to pull that out of a hat. Also, Harry could be related to Gryffindor, which Rowling hinted at in one of her interviews.
When Harry was being sorted in the 1st book, the Sorting Hat seriously considered placing him in Slytherin, possibly due to the fact that Harry had 1/7 of Voldemort’s soul within him.
I also agree that Snape is still a good guy. Dumbledore needed Snape to kill him for 2 reasons; firstly, if Snape killed Dumbledore, then he (Snape) would be seen as a much more loyal servant to Voldemort. With this, he may be able to gather more information as to the whereabouts of the 2 remaining Horcruxes (Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw). Secondly, Snape needed to kill Dumbledore in order to save himself ; if he had not done the killing, then Snape would have died due to his breaking of the unbreakable vow. Snape realized that Malfoy was not going to kill Dumbledore, and in the vow, Narcissa had specifcally stated that if Malfoy was unable to perform the task, that Snape would have to do it. (Snape had to make the unbreakable vow in the first place because if he hadn’t, Narcissa would have suspected that he wasn’t loyal to Voldemort).
And my boldest prediction yet: SNAPE IS NOT THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE. When Harry looks at the date when the book was used, he sees that it was used about 50 years ago; this disappoints him, because his father was not yet at Hogwarts. However, Snape was the same year as James Potter; if James was not yet at Hogwarts, than neither was Snape. However, 50 years ago, Voldemort (Tom Riddle) was at Hogwarts, as we learned in Chamber of Secrets. However, I don’t know why Snape would pretend to be the HBP.
At the very beginning when I noticed the HBP’s amazing talent at potions, I had a growing suspicion that it could have been Snape himself..however when the date was checked,and it appreaed it couldn’t have been James. I gave that thought up. I therefore still don’t understand how Snape claims himself to be the HBP.
Again..I agree with Kbaug when he writes:
“While I like the idea that Snape killed Dumbledore to keep his cover, since when did having a spy count for more than having the most powerful wizard in the world alive and on the good side? I still think Snape is on the Order’s side but i can’t back it up with any evidence.”
But I suppose that is how the story should move cause Dumbledores’ presence would never let Harry move along on his own. He would always be dependant on Dumbledore and perhaps the absense of Dumbledore will make Voldemort more careless..in the light of which he will be tempted to make mistakes. Given with all these possibilities…like Kbaug says..with the world’s most powerful wizard gone…which leaves Voldemort to replace the position…one would wonder how much chance Harry potter has against him in duelling.
Much has been said already ..and Harry being one of the Horcrux does make a lot of sense. The Slytherin’s Locket part does confuse me though. Someone here earlier mentioned that it was the same locket that was mentioned in Book 5, that all of them had failed to open. Had it been so..how come the ring, another horcrux, caused Dumbledore’s hand to shrivel while the locket caused no harm? Is it not likely for Voldemort’s horcruxes to be filled with all sorts of Dark magic.
I still feel it was too early to kill Dumbledore even for the sake of the pot and no matter whichever way Snape tends to justify himself…it won’t be worth it.
Well nyways…any of you got any idea when the 7th book may be published?
We all think that one of the missing horcruxes has something do to with Ravenclaw, right?! Well, Luna Lovegood is in Ravenclaw, isn’t she? I think, that she will possibly play some bigger role in the next book!
Any comments on this?
as to the folks who don’t understand how snape could be the half-blood prince since he was at school with james–as melissa says in #61 snapes mother was at hogwarts at the same time as tom riddle, 50 years ago (which is when the book was dated to). so the book belong to snapes mother first. which i have to say i wasn’t expecting at all. i kept thinking–who else was at hogwarts the same time as riddle besides hagrid…
The whole death of Dumbledore confuses me. Why did he immobilize
Harry unless he had a orchestrated what was about to happen and
wanted to make sure Harry didn’t interfere with his plans? Why did
Snape “kill” him so quickly instead of pressing Malfoy to complete his
duty like the other Death Eaters? Why did Snape’s killing curse make
Dumbledore float up into the air and off the balcony? Think of Harry’s
flashback to his parents or Cedric or Riddle’s Dad or the spider. In all
other cases there is simply a flash of green light and then death. No
bodies flying around or anything. No, I think whatever Snape did to
Dumbledore, it wasn’t kill him. See how strongly Snape continued to
protect Harry after Dumbledore was “dead”? I don’t think that was
simply to save him for the Dark Lord. He is still executing the plan he
and Dumbledore worked out.
As to why Dumbledore trusted Snape, I do think it has something to
do with Lilly, but I don’t think it was simply that Snape “loved” her.
This is a lot to do for unrequited love. There is some other bond.
I think Dumbledore will be back. He will certainly talk to Harry
through his portrait, but I think there will be a stronger return as
well. I agree with those who compare Dumbledore and a Phoenix.
Melissa,
I believe that u r right in saying that Tonks will be the new transf. teacher but it would be a good fit if Lupin, her lover, would teach DADA once again and that they could get married in the wake of Bill and Fleur. Who else thinks that Harry will need Grawp to destroy one of the Horcruxes and Hagrid will be killed in the process? after all, JKR didn’t put Grawp into the story to be Hagrid’s summer project.
All of these theories on Harry being the 6th Horcrux are great but if Voldemort had meant a Horcrux for James and Lily’s death he would have done it after he killed Harry (which we know he failed in doing and was immediatly cursed into mere nothingness). But even if Voldy managed to turn Harry into a Horcrux, how would harry kill him? He would have to die, come back, and then kill Voldemort. That can’t be right. Then Voldemort would live forever b/c Harry is the only one who can kill him. Maybe by making harry the Horcrux (highly unlikely) Voldemort ensured his own immortality. That’s why i don’t think Harry is a Horcrux b/c that would make the book suck which i know it won’t. JKR is a much better writer than that. (although that bit about harry being the peice of Griffindor was most interesting, Huaguft is most certainly a clever thinker).
You talked about the throwaway elements:
What about the mirror Sirius gave to Harry in #5? Wasn’t it disappointing that such a nice toy wasn’t used?
Does anybody think it will play a bigger role in book #7?
:D I really laughed out loud when I came across the word “voldy”. I couldnt help but imagine, had it been a real Wizarding world and the word voldy was said out liike that..how many people would have had a mild cardiac arrest by then.
Well I suppose, Fred and george are already on the track :D, the You-no-poo thing was hillarious!
errm well yeah i guess Harry being the 6th horcruz does hav a lot of contradicting points, yet him being a piece of Griffindor would undoubtedly be an interesting twist to it.
I kept thinking a lot ..with much annoyance I might add, why Dumbledore had to immobilise Harry? Harry was more than enough to handle a git like Malfoy,and then he could have handled Dumbledore his wand back and even a weak Dumbledore with his wand in his hand would be more than enough for the Death Eaters.. but I suppose unless he didnt want Harry to interfere in his plans..
However if Harry really is the 6th Horcrux the possible conclusion would most certainly be that both Harry and Voldemort would have to die at the same time.Which would suck again cause the poor boy never did have a chance to enjoy his life.I hope it doesnt end that way, its too unfair that his whole life(which again would be extremely short) was spent first haunted by Voldemort and then hunting Voldemort..but yeah extinguishing Voldemort forever would of course be a worthy task
There could be magic to remove the pieces of soul from the horcruxes and return them to Voldy…
Or, Voldy’s own piece of soul is already destroyed by backfired curse on Harry, and he will die when remainder of horcruxes are destroyed…
Only reason he survived the death of Harry’s parents was because pieces of his soul were already safely stashed away…
OR – when curse backfired, he immediately put a piece of his soul in Harry to ensure his survival?
Lots of things JKR can do with this one.
If Harry is the last Horcrux, he would not have to kill himself to kill Voldemort. Dumbledore did not have to destroy the ring to destroy the Horcrux, so there is a way to remove the Horcrux without destroying the object. Even if he did have to destroy himself he could kill Voldemort’s body and then himself, and he wouldn’t have to kill himself first.
Also, it isn’t at all clear who immobilized Harry. There could have been someone else in another invisibility cloak, or maybe Kreacher did it. Harry assumed Dumbledore didn’t protect himself because he had to immobilize Harry, but it could have just been the effects of the stuff he drank. It’s also possible that either Snape or Dumbledore were really other people who used the Polyjuice Potion.
Pierre
I like the idea about being able to remove the object w/out destroying it. That could be a possibiltity. But, Harry would have to kill himself first if that is not the case b/c Voldemort cannot be killed until all the Horcruxes are destroyed. Therefore, if Harry attacks Voldy first, there will still be the peice of soul residing in Voldemort himself.
Kbaug
If Harry first destroys the bit of soul in Voldemort’s body, then Voldemort will still be alive, but only because part of his soul is in Harry. Harry could then destroy himself which would destroy that piece of soul. But that doesn’t really matter because we already know that a Horcrux can be removed without destroying the object.
About RAB, I expect that jkr was planning to make it be Regulus Black and make the locket they found at 12 Grimmauld Place in The Order of the Phoenix be Slytherin’s locket, and it was there because Regulus Black lived there. But now that people have figured everything out she is probably going to change it and maybe introduce a new character or make it be someone who’s initials aren’t really RAB.
One person that is being overlooked is Albus Dumbledore’s brother, Aberforth Dumbledore (the barkeep at the Hogs Head Inn). He is in the Oop b/c he was in the pic that Mad Eye showed Harry in the 5th book. He has so far had only a small part in the books. Albus mentioned that he was arrested for using charms on a goat and also said that the abuse he got from the daily prophet wasn’t taken to heart b/c he probably couldn’t read. Aberforth was also the one who threw Snape from the door the night that Trelawney made the Prophecy, he was the one who stopped the information from getting to Voldemort. Look for him to large role in #7, after all, he shares Albus’s genes.
There is no doubt in my mind that Dumledore let Snape kill him for a reason and that Snape followed through with it because he knew that’s what the headmaster wanted him to do under those circumstances. I also strongly believe that Albus D. will be back in the seventh and final book, rising like the Phoenix. Think what an advantage it gives him and the Order, Voldemort will think it’s all in the bag and it will be his undoing.
Okay, I think that Harry Potter is a Horcruxes. Because:
He belongs to Gryffindor. (Remember he said one of the pieces could be from Gryffindor.)
They sorting had said he would be good in slytherin. Because he was sensing Voldemort’s soul.
The scar sensing him/dreams.
Voldemort was weak after his first encounter with Harry because he lost part of his soul.
Voldemort’s orders was to not kill Harry.
I don’t think Harry’s a horcrux ’cause it doesn’t completely jive with the Prophecy AND, Lord V. has aimed the killing curse at him twice. Once in GoF when their wands locked and in TOotP when Dumbledore blocked the curse with the head of a flying statue.
I like the idea of Dumbledore rising from the ashes like a Pheonix, but I don’t recall his Patronus charm ever being revealed as a Pheonix.
Dumbledore was the one who froze Harry for obvious reasons:
1.) Don’t interfere with a carefully laid plan.
2.) Learn that Malfoy isn’t all bad and finds himself doing Voldemort’s bidding because his parents’ lives are on the line. (i.e. Evils doesn’t mean PURE evil)
3.) Keep yourself driven by witnessing my death and finish the task I’ve given you.
Snape’s still good, I think. Someone mentioned earlier and I noticed when reading HBP, that Snape is still “teaching” Harry even as he flees; making him aware of his weaknesses (i.e. saying spells aloud).
His “I AM NOT A COWARD” comment is obvious. He’s working his tail off to prove his worth, and is still undercover. He’s the farthest thing from a coward based on all of the danger he’s endured. Also, by “killing” Dumbledore…he is released from the Unbreakable Vow.
Lastly, remember: Voldemort takes out his biggest foes personally. Which is why Harry lives. They are like his trophies he’s fond of.
I dunno why I keep spelling “phoenix” wrong.
I think it makes perfect sense with the prophecy that Harry is the last Horcrux. When he kills the body of voldemort, V will try to use Harry to come back to life.
The prophecy states that one will kill the other. Two souls and one body, but of course, we all now that Harry has many aspects of his life that are the same as Voldemortes were. It seems likely that the real message of the books may be about Harry’s personal struggle of choosing between good and bad. This has been alluded to in all of the other books, sometimes fairly brazenly too.
So, at this point in the book, to kill Voldemort all he has to do is kill the evil in himself (hatred, fear, predjudice – his exact feelings towards Snape).
Well that’s how I’d write it anyhow.
I am SO glad to see someone else who remains convinced that Snape’s a good guy.
I disagree with WHY Dumbledore was pleading–I don’t think it was for Snape’s life–but for Malfoy’s. Dumbledore just explained how he’d spent all term trying to save Malfoy and how convinced he was that Malfoy was not a killer–I think Dumbledore was desperate to save Malfoy.
In any case there’s no way Dumbledore would plead for his OWN life–so it had to be for someone else’s! I think Snape (being an expert DADA & potions guy) could tell Dumbledore was done for which was why he complied. I think Snape’s going to die saving Harry’s life in the next book–it will be the only thing that could redeem him in Harry’s eyes–which I think HAS to happen.
I love that you want Harry to be Snape’s kid! I’ve wondered that myself, but like you don’t expect it to fan out.
Snape really is a great character! I hate having lost Dumbledore, but better him than Snape!
Anyway, love your post on the book!
-K
Wow. O.O Now I’ve read ALL the other posts. I LOVE YOU GUYS! okay…I’m done with that.
Um….about Harry being a horcrux–interesting, but I don’t think it could work–after all wouldn’t the prophesy then be “one cannot die while the other survives?” lol! (I suppose you could argue that Harry cannont live while V. survives inside him, but…no.)
As far as the cave potion being the Horcrux…I don’t think so. As far as R.A.B. — I think it’s 3 people–3 underage wizards — almost has to be doesn’t it?
I agree that there was way to much exposition–I loved the scenes with Dumbledore and the pensieve–but it really is a cheap trick to fit in back plot and I think she could have done better.
As far as book seven being huge–if the kids aren’t going to be at hogwarts then we aren’t limited to seven books anymore are we? That was always the deal–7 years, 7 books. So if Hogwarts is closed or if we don’t have Harry in his 7th year…..
I would love to believe that Snape didn’t really kill Dumbledore as would suggested, quite predictably, I’m in that first stage of grief-denial. And I must admit the point about arvarda being rarely lethal and the fact that Rowling was not going on and on about how someone was going to die as she did for POA do lend some credibility to the Dumbledore in hiding theory. But really, I think Harry is to be the next Dumbledore (not the next headmaster–the next DUMBLEDORE), and well, that means Dumbledore had to die. Plus, I totally agree with whomever put is so eloquently–Dumbledore DID have vultures over his head from his first appearnce in the book.
Snape in love with Lilly–ABSOLUTELY! That much seemed pretty clear before.
Hey, does anyone know anything significant about Harry’s Grand-Parents? Previous generations seem to be becoming increasingly significant.
well nice to “meet” and chat with you all!
-K
I’m right there w/ what Kip has said.
All right. All together now to the tune of Detachable Penis…
Redeemable Malfoy….
That is one thing that I was never sure about. I mean, Draco just had never really developed as a character. Sure, he did stuff & we were shown some nefarious doings in the past, but he hadn’t developed. I was afraid he would be a stick-figure bully throughout the whole series.
The one thing that I have been right about from the time “somebody dies” began in the series is that the “somebody” would not be Hagrid. As I’m sure Elkins can vouch for, I said it over & over. Before book 5, I said that Dumbledore would die long before Hagrid was killed. But deaths in book 7 I am much less sure about. I’ve gotta go w/ the alchemical black/white/red sequence & Hagrid is certainly red. I’m still not sure that he dies in this series, though. I would prefer that the “red” death come from the Weasley family (preferably one of the twins because of the absolute awfulness that comes w/ it), but names seem awfully important.
As I waited for my book to arrive (I just received it on Friday), I re-read OotP while in Chicago. I had not liked it at all on first reading. On re-reading, I liked it much, much better.
Redeemable Malfoy (doo do do do, doo do do do)
Redeemable Draco….
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The second chapter was unneccessary. Setting Snape up as really being bad (whether or not he actually is) spoilt the shock of his ‘killing’ Dumbledore. Personally I believe that he still working for the Order and the episode on the tower was all planned by him and Dumbledore so he could infiltate the Death Eaters and bring Voldemort out in the open. I’m sure the old headmster will be back to help Harry in the next book in some form or other. Snape is definately the best character in the whole series – I love the way he hates the increasingly annoying Potter and co!
A quick note – Harry can’t be Snapes son because the books always go on about him looking like his dad and since Snape inherited his mothers skill at potions wouldn’t Harry aswell? He clearly hasn’t.
Wow, these are all really exciting theories. In that interview mentioned further above this post, JKR seems to imply that Snape really is evil. However, she’s quite ambiguous about it; she seems to bluff a lot and her answers are seldom clear, which is a strangely admirable quality of hers as an author! (As she mentions in the interview…)
I just wanted to say, that if Harry is one of the Horcruxes, it doesn’t mean that he will have to die, or harm himself in any way… If Harry is housing one and a seventh souls, then perhaps a Dementor could be involved in sucking one of those souls out of him? I suppose this would be very risky, and perhaps impossible considering they seem to be very evil and Hellbent on the destruction of people’s lives and their happiness, but still… My point is that you never can be too sure about these books! There are endless theories. I must say, I love Crookshanks’ theories, and the idea of Harry sacrificing himself, and Ron and Hermione’s first child being named in his memory. That would be so touching. Poor Harry, if he dies, but it is quite a fitting end for a ‘hero’: if he goes down fighting everyone will have so much more respect for him, not that I think it likely to happen. JK loves Harry more than any other character… I’m not sure if she has the stomach to kill him off! Then again, who know?
I hope that JKR doesn’t read the theories and then change something in the book! That would be ridiculous; Hopefully, if she hasn’t thought about anything said here so far, she will see it and add some of it to the story! She has said that she loves theories… I would like to point out though, that we are all going to be sorely disappointed if the ending is more simple than this… When I first finished the book, I imagined that the plot was very literal, but now I hope that I was wrong. Especially about Snape; naming the sixth book after him emphasises his importance, perhaps to an extent that we have not yet witnessed.
And I don’t think Snape is Harry’s father, because when he looked in the Mirror of Erised, he saw his straightforward, simply named ‘family,’ featuring James and Lily, and many other bearing their characteristics. Plus, I think it would shatter all of Harry’s memories and finally traumatise him to the point of insanity.
Anyway, thanks for sharing all your thoughts and theories on here! It has been a fascinating read.
I was expecting Dumbledore to buy the farm myself, but I’d finally been lulled into a false sense of security when I reached the final chapters. Talk about a shock! I literally cried. To discover that SNAPE of all people, was the Half-Blood Prince… I was shocked! It never crossed my mind, isn’t that strange ? Probably because the HBP seemed like an evil bastard, and I accepted the fact that Snape was “reformed”. My… I for one don’t believe he’s still acting for the Order. I think he’s been for Voldemort all that time and he did kill Dumbledore, just when he was dragging Draco back from the edge too!
He stole Draco’s chance to be redeemed. My guess is that he’ll tell him what to say to Voldemort (style: he was taunting Dumbledore and Snape took over because he was wasting time) because Snape didn’t have a choice. Having made the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa (why?) he would’ve died if Draco hadn’t survived. So he took him with him and will probably say and do what he must to keep Voldemort from killing him. Poor Draco is stuck with the Death Eaters without any decent protection. I’m just sick about it.
It’ll be at least two years because we get to read the 7th and final book, and speculation will run rife the entire time. I’m interested to see who shares my view that Snape is doubly damned… Remember he “failed” to teach Harry Occlumency in Book 5… Pfft! Didn’t try very hard, I think.
I’m a little annoyed at the Harry/Ginny ship. Way too expected.
All in all, a very good book and a shocker.
I just can’t see J.K. killing off Harry in the 7th book. This series of books started out as children’s books and as they gained in popularity they took a more adult direction. If that is the way she had intended this to go since before she wrote the first book then she should kill him off, but if it’s because she’s trying to reach the more adult audience I think it’s a mistake. I personally would hate it, I’ve gotten personally involved in these characters and I want Harry to have a good long life. He’s faced so much in his young life at some point I want him to know some kind of peace and happiness, we shall see.
I LOVE these theories! Now I have one of my own to add…
In several books, Petunia acts strangely in the presence of magic. Yes, her muggle family is scared of it and turns that fear into anger. But Petunia seems to have a slightly different reaction from the rest of her Muggle family.
Since her sister had powers, do you think it is possible that Petunia knows more than she has shown to us so far?
I want to say I am all for Snape turning out to be on the good side.
Firstly, I think the matter of what exactly was the reason that Dumbledore trusted snape is fairly easy to guess. I pondered about it for a long time before it hit me. It is probably the most obvious clue that JKR could have left us. JK said prior to the release that there were a lot of clues in HBP but I think that she could not help but leave a layer of speculation on top of these clues. Now I think that we all agree that Dumbledore was a very clever wizard and just a mere statement of repentance by snape would not have been enough to convince him of snape’s loyalty (everybody knows snape is one heck of an occlumens). So I think it is obvious that snape made an unbreakable vow with Dumbledore that he would do all in his power to vanquish voldemort (or something like that).
Secondly, let’s discuss snape’s position in the current plot. One thing is certain about snape, he is one of those guys that look out for their skin first and then think about others (a true slytherin won’t you say?). I would like you guys to think on that line when Dumbledore tells Harry about the thing that ‘tyrants are always afraid of the people they rule’. I mean snape is a very powerful wizard, probably most powerful after Voldemort, Dumbledore and James Potter (guessing from that famous chapter from OoTP). He knows right now voldemort’s focus is on Harry but if Harry goes he might one day turn to snape. After all both of them are power hungry wizards, riddle and snape. So snape’s best chance is that riddle is vanquished. I am convinced that snape knows about the horcruxes. Most of you guys have guessed rightly about the pleading that Dumbledore did right before snuffing it. The argument that Harry learns about from Hagrid reinforces this line of thinking. They argued and snape said that he didn’t want to do it anymore, (see where I am trying to point) and Dumbledore replied that he had agreed to do it. Snape is one very clever wizard. If you read spinner’s end very carefully there are more than few clues in that chapter. His argument or reasons if you want to call it with Bellatrix is very enlightening if you look at it in this way that his method of spying for riddle is exactly the way it is for Dumbledore. In fact the twitch of his hand while making the unbreakable vow is the biggest give away.
One stupid thing that JKR made Dumbledore do was that if Dumbledore was willing enough to give his life for a higher purpose then why the hell did he care about the Malfoys. What is ironic is that ‘he acted exactly as voldemort expects the fools who love to act’ (OoTP, chapter: ‘the lost prophecy’).
I have loved reading all the comments. I just finished the book last night, cried most of the way through the last two chapters. I just have one question and a few comments. First, I saw a few people comment that McGonagall was Vold. in disguise, I don’t remember reading that at all.
Second, I agree that Snape will prob. turn out to be good, but will die in the end helping Harry and thus redeem himself in Harry’s eyes. ( it is just so easy to hate him though!) Third, I don’t think that Harry is the Horcrux. It doesnt’ fit with the idea, in the first book, that he couldn’t be touched by something so evil because love is so pure and good. I do believe though that it is prob. in his home town of Godric (very interesting that it shares the name of Gryffindor’s founder), where it just so happens he is going. Anyway, LOVED the book and can’t wait for the next. Oh also, Lady K makes a good point about 7 years, 7 books, I can’t help but believe that the next book will not be her last. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking though.
Hi, im new and i just started reading these comments…and damn, most of these are very clever and smart, i have to say that i agree with some like hagrid dyin and snape being good, but others like harry dying, or mcgonagall being v cant be true.
You know, one thing i was thinking about though, was that albus told harry that his love was the one power that V didnt have, from this i look at who harry has left to love, he has hagrid, ron, hermione, and now, ginny, and no matter how the ending in HBP ended with him goin away and thinking he has to do it alone, they will play a big role and his love for them will help hiim beat V.
Forgive me for this wierd comparison, but part of Harrys struggle reminds me of Star Wars, u see, Harry is..especially right now..full of hate and vengance, much like luke skywalker was, and luke had to overcome his hate and defeat the empire….now im not saying that it directly follows any of the star wars idea of a jedi, but still i think harry cant fully complete his goal, unless he accepts the love from his friends and new girl friend and draws his power from there instead of from hatred.
One more thing, i read somewhere, i think it was on answers.com, that the sorting hat also belonged to gryffindor, if so, maybe that could be a horcrux?
Why does Dumbledore trust Snape?
We learned in HBP, Voldemort did not plan to kill Lilly, just James and Harry. Lilly chose to remain and sacrifice herself for Harry (a moment of HUGE import for the book – the old love magic, etc.), despite Voldemort giving her the opportunity to flee and survive.
We also learned Snape is the one who overheard the prophecy. Why did Voldemort initially spare Lilly? At Snape’s request. We’ll find that Snape was in love with Lilly, whom he convinced Voldemort to spare. When Voldemort killed her anyway, Snape’s dedication to Voldemort wasn’t quite the same…
Does Snape fell remorse over being responsibe (by relaying the prohecy) for killing James (as discussed in the hospital wing at the end of the book, where Lilly’s name is glaringly absent…check the book…)? No. But Lilly, well, that’s a different story, and Snape has been tormented by guilt for the death of Lilly,and chances are Snape could never forgive Voldemort for killing her, and that is why Dumbledore trusted Snape.
That is also why Snape hates Harry- b/c it is Harry’s birth /part in the prophecy that brought Voldemort to James and Lilly’s house, resulting in the loss of Snape’s love, Lilly.
Lot’s of hate there…