On being better-liked after losing weight

An “Ask Polly” reader describes a conversation with her friend who lost 125 pounds dieting…

He then went into lawyer mode, showing me Facebook posts from his heavy days and now; the same clever Facebook status that had gotten 30 likes when he was overweight got over 100 now that he was thin. He then became upset, near tears even, and told me that the saddest part of losing weight was that people finally complimented him on qualities he’d always had.

Another reader, in Polly’s comments, echos the sentiment:

This one hit close to home – I lost a lot of weight in my 20s and it is a total and complete mindf*&k. Everyone starts paying attention to you, valuing you, and it’s really difficult to navigate without becoming incredibly shallow and choosing the wrong people because you have no idea who YOU really are anymore.

When I think about losing weight – and like nearly all fat people, my mind sometimes strays there even though I’m against trying to lose weight myself – this thought always bothers me. I’ve read enough studies – and seen enough life – to be convinced that I would probably be better liked, and treated better – not by my close friends, but by acquaintances and strangers and business associates – if I lost a lot of weight.

But I think that would in turn make me paranoid. How could I make new friends, for instance, if at the back of my head I’m wondering if they’ll drop me if I regain the weight (as most weight losers do)? Would I take every instance of nice treatment as an opportunity to think “if you saw me two years ago, you wouldn’t be being this nice?” It’s a creepy thought.

(Via.)

[Comment moderation note: Weight-loss advice will be deleted.]

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26 Responses to On being better-liked after losing weight

  1. 1
    Copyleft says:

    I wonder if people who go through etiquette classes and social-skills training ask the same questions? “Do they like me for who I really am, or just because I’ve made myself more appealing?”

    And likewise for people going through therapy to resolve social dysfunctions and disorders (social anxiety or depression, for example).

  2. 2
    Lee1 says:

    And likewise for people going through therapy to resolve social dysfunctions and disorders (social anxiety or depression, for example).

    Speaking as a sample size of one, yes.

  3. 3
    Ann Queue says:

    Wow, Copyleft, this points out an important difference: social skills actually have to do with how one treats other people, and learning more skills makes interactions with others more pleasant. Thus it makes sense, painful as it may be, that learning social skills will make people like you more.

    Weight doesn’t affect interactions, except maybe in a very limited sense of, for example, occupying more physical space in tight quarters.

    I’m discovering my own version of people liking me for the wrong reason: I’m suddenly on the other side of a certain political debate with a bunch of friends, and I think I’m losing one of them over it. Our values are really very similar, but it’s starting to feel like one of these folk mostly got along with me because I was politically useful.

    I think if you know the person long enough these things come out regardless.

  4. 4
    Eytan Zweig says:

    Not sure if this is a derail or not, so please feel free to delete this post if it is, but what I find confusing here is that I’m not sure what the difference between “who I really am” and “who I made myself to be”. Is this a distinction that other people find easy to understand?

  5. 5
    Copyleft says:

    How about image and fashion consultants? What about public-speaking courses? Social appeal is physical, mental, and emotional. It wouldn’t make sense to suggest that one of these aspects is unfair while the others are reasonable.

    As for liking someone for the wrong reasons, I’m not sure I agree. If you suddenly discover that a close friend of 10+ years has a hatred of Asians and Asian culture, you might reduce or even end your friendship with her… not because you were wrong to be friends before, but because you’ve learned about an aspect of her that doesn’t appeal to you.

    Etyan also raises a good point: When you make a change in your life (whether it’s getting therapy, updating your hairstyle, trying to be more positive and outgoing, or getting breast implants), you change who you are. Asking whether people like “the real me” may be confusing who you are now with who you -used- to be. even if Who I Am Now is nothing more than “the same as before, but with better-fitting pants.”

  6. 6
    Pesho says:

    I’m also with Eytan. As far as I am concerned, you are whom you appear to be, period.

    Your actions speak for themselves. You are the only one who knows your own motivations, your real values, and your real desires. If your actions are worthy of respect, you are no less (and no more) worthy of respect because you decided to act contrary to the self only you know.

  7. 7
    Eytan Zweig says:

    I’m also with Eytan. As far as I am concerned, you are whom you appear to be, period.

    That’s not what I said; “who you appear to be” and “who you are” are pretty different things for most people. What I’m confused about is the distinction made by Copyleft (and not by Amp) between “who you really are” and “who you have made yourself to be”. In particular, what does “really” mean in this context? Is there a distinction between “who I am”, and “who I really am”?

  8. 8
    nm says:

    Lee1, speaking as another sample size of one, no. Sometimes people who suffer (which is, I think, the correct word) from social anxieties and depression feel that getting rid of those problems has let the “real” them get out to enjoy the world. I’m one of those, and it doesn’t surprise me that I find more friends now that I find more good things in my life generally. I can understand the opposite reaction, certainly, but I don’t share it.

    And I would figure that a person who was constantly feeling bad about him/herself because of weight issues, or who suffered from severe health problems because of weight issues, who then lost weight, might come out of the process more cheerful and win more friends because of that. (Not that most fat people do feel bad about themselves, or suffer health problems; but there are some who do.) And disentangling that subset of new friends from those who were willing to be friends now only because of a new conformity to body norms would surely feel very icky.

  9. 9
    Pesho says:

    That’s not what I said; “who you appear to be” and “who you are” are pretty different things for most people.

    How would you know that, except for yourself? Are you including the “future them” in this? If someone burns with desire to murder those who bully him, and does not act upon it, he is not a murderer. He only becomes one once he snaps. And even if he does, you can’t say much about whom he really was before he snapped.

    The same way, the person who loses weight becomes a different person. He will still have the experiences of the fat person, and his behavior may or may no reflect that. But his behavior will certainly reflect the fact that he is no longer fat.

    Talking about “he is this”, “he has become this”, “he appears to be this”… as if they are different things is at best poor semantics, and at worst meaningless. If someone appears X but you know he is Y, then he does not appear X, he appears to be Y. You can say he acts like X in front of someone else, but he is Y, and it will be clearer, because it’s true without going into metaphysics.

  10. 10
    Copyleft says:

    The philosophy is upon us, with no end in sight! *grin*

  11. 11
    Eytan Zweig says:

    How would you know that, except for yourself?

    I know it about myself. I assume I am typical.

    I don’t understand the rest of what you are trying to say, or how it relates either to what Amp said in his post or to what I said in response.

  12. 12
    Pesho says:

    I know it about myself. I assume I am typical.

    I would assume the same. What does it matter? No one but you will ever know it. Everyone else will know the person defined by how you act. That’s the person you are/you’ve made yourself/you’ve become/you appear to be.

    Even if you try to share the information with other people, they will still not know that ‘inner you’. They will have their understanding of your explanation of what you believe you really are. They will just make it part of their image of you, the one formed by your actions, including the “I chose to talk about my ideas of who I really am with you”.

    I think that I am what people think I am. The drives on which I don’t act are just some the things I deal with, in the same way in which I deal with a branch on the road or a shoe dropped by a toddler in his mother’s arms.

    The philosophy is upon us, with no end in sight! *grin*

    Is that surprising, given the topic?

  13. 13
    Harlequin says:

    Pesho:

    I think that I am what people think I am. The drives on which I don’t act are just some the things I deal with, in the same way in which I deal with a branch on the road or a shoe dropped by a toddler in his mother’s arms.

    Not to wander into the weeds here (okay…just a bit), but–at least personally–I don’t act the same with everybody I interact with. But I don’t think it would be accurate to call me 10 different people on the day I talk to 10 of my friends. So I don’t think it can be as simple as “I am what other people think I am.”

    ***

    Copyleft:

    How about image and fashion consultants? What about public-speaking courses? Social appeal is physical, mental, and emotional. It wouldn’t make sense to suggest that one of these aspects is unfair while the others are reasonable.

    Sure, that’s fair. But the differential of going fat to thin (according to the people I know who’ve done it) is much bigger than the differential of, say, a new wardrobe*, or somebody who goes to an etiquette school and becomes less of an asshole, or things like that. Some of that is probably because we attach a lot of moral judgement to fat that we don’t to most of the other kinds of things that make people less attractive, but I don’t know if that explains it all.

    (* A minor sociological experiment I enjoy is counting up the people who hold doors for me when I’m wearing skirts vs wearing pants. As far as I can tell, it’s nearly zero when I’m wearing pants, and 10-20% in skirts.)

  14. 14
    Harlequin says:

    Feeling like I should quote from Community here: “When you really know who you are and what you like about yourself, changing for others isn’t such a big deal.”

  15. 15
    nobody.really says:

    [Y]ou are whom you appear to be, period.

    Your actions speak for themselves. You are the only one who knows your own motivations, your real values, and your real desires. If your actions are worthy of respect, you are no less (and no more) worthy of respect because you decided to act contrary to the self only you know.

    Certain existentialists (Sartre? Camus?) argued that we don’t have an identity; we make/discover an identity through our conduct. I vaguely recall research on the relationship between preferences and financial contributions. The study found that people often give to causes/organizations with which they have a long attachment, even when that attachment was not based on their own choice. In other words, instead of saying “We support what we like,” we might get closer to the truth to say, “We (grow to) like what we support.”

    If someone appears X but you know he is Y, then he does not appear X, he appears to be Y. You can say he acts like X in front of someone else, but he is Y, and it will be clearer, because it’s true without going into metaphysics.

    If you aspire to clarity, may I suggest avoiding use of the verb “to be”? I sometimes find it helpful.

  16. 16
    Pesho says:

    Certain existentialists (Sartre? Camus?) argued that we don’t have an identity; we make/discover an identity through our conduct.

    You may as well as go to an earlier philosopher: “You shall know them by their fruits”. And lets not go into who that philosopher is most likely to have been.

    But I don’t think it would be accurate to call me 10 different people on the day I talk to 10 of my friends.

    No, but is it inaccurate to say that you are the person capable of, and choosing to act in those 10 different ways? Sure, your friends may not have yet polled their information, and used it to build a consistent image of you… and they never may. But that person, acting in those ten ways, is you, more than that inner image you have of yourself… of at least, I think so.

    But after all, you are the best observer for both. Are you saying that the latter is more important than the former?

    If you aspire to clarity, may I suggest avoiding use of the verb “to be”? I sometimes find it helpful.

    I agree it can produce helpful results, but avoiding it requires more effort in some cases compared to others. In this discussion, you’d have to go through serious contortions.

  17. 17
    Harlequin says:

    No, but is it inaccurate to say that you are the person capable of, and choosing to act in those 10 different ways? Sure, your friends may not have yet polled their information, and used it to build a consistent image of you… and they never may. But that person, acting in those ten ways, is you, more than that inner image you have of yourself… of at least, I think so.

    Hmm. I think maybe we’re in agreement here, or close to it, but talking past each other. My point was that there’s obviously a self which is distinct from my interactions with any one person–that the most true representation of myself is some kind of least common denominator of the facets I show to different people. And I bet that representation is a lot more closely aligned with my self-concept than any one of the individual facets.

  18. 18
    Copyleft says:

    Then there’s the question of how accurate a person’s own self-concept is–something that clearly varies wildly across a broad spectrum, from the egotist who think she’s the greatest thing on two legs to the suicidal depressive who’s convinced he’s ugly, stupid, and worthless.

  19. 19
    La Lubu says:

    you are whom you appear to be, period.

    “Whom you appear to be” isn’t objective criteria. “Whom you appear to be” is inherently subjective, filtered through the minds of people who’ve been taught to interpret certain images one way or another, which sometimes include stereotypes that wildly diverge from more objective (measurable, verifiable) criteria. Physical appearance is especially vulnerable to misinterpretation, even setting aside how malleable physical appearance is.

    So when Amp is saying “who I really am”, I took it to mean his internal concept of himself, full-boat: the compilation of all his characteristics which may or may not be revealed at every occasion to everyone. Meanwhile, the “who he appears to be” is far more limited: casual observers aren’t getting the (sorry for the bad pun) big picture—they don’t have much if any insight into Amp’s thoughts, hopes, dreams, philosophy of life, what have you. They get more “out-sight” than insight; they see a big fat guy, and attribute the characteristics they’ve been taught about the class of people known as “big fat guys” to him, regardless of whether those stereotypical traits fit or not.

    This is a problem. When “who you appear to be” to others is filtered through stereotypes (especially negative stereotypes), “who you appear to be” doesn’t tend to be within shouting distance of who you are. Pause for a moment and think about some stereotypes attributed to fat people. Don’t stop there either; think about some stereotypes attributed to other maligned groups of people. See where that collection of learned stereotypes could be a problem when asserting that ‘who one appears to be to others is who one is’ yet? Especially for those who have that baggage foisted upon them?

    There is no such thing as the “neutral” eye. Eyes belong to people, and they see not just what is in front of them, but also what is in their mind.

  20. 20
    Ann Queue says:

    early morning musing… how does all this relate to Grace’s recent post about first impressions vs. true nature?

  21. 21
    closetpuritan says:

    La Lubu:
    This is a problem. When “who you appear to be” to others is filtered through stereotypes (especially negative stereotypes), “who you appear to be” doesn’t tend to be within shouting distance of who you are. Pause for a moment and think about some stereotypes attributed to fat people. Don’t stop there either; think about some stereotypes attributed to other maligned groups of people. See where that collection of learned stereotypes could be a problem when asserting that ‘who one appears to be to others is who one is’ yet? Especially for those who have that baggage foisted upon them?

    Exactly.

    Copyleft:
    How about image and fashion consultants? What about public-speaking courses? Social appeal is physical, mental, and emotional. It wouldn’t make sense to suggest that one of these aspects is unfair while the others are reasonable.

    Maybe not “unfair”, but if someone’s friendship with me is strongly affected by things like whether I dress fashionably/flatteringly, I would say that that’s rather shallow. And the same goes for weight.

  22. 22
    Eva says:

    Thanks for posting. It reminds me to be prepared for compliments, whatever my current weight status. If it makes people feel good to tell me I look good, who am I to dissuade them, right?

  23. 23
    Simple Truth says:

    I think this has a lot of overlap with Grace’s thread and perceptions vs. realities. To the person who has lost weight, they are still the same basic person: same laugh, same mannerisms, same morals. All the things that they feel make up who they are on the inside (which many people consider pretty much the sum of the real worth of a person) have stayed the same. Only the outside has changed, maybe to match what the person inside feels. But people are reacting to that outside change as if the person inside has changed, become more virtuous, more funny, etc.

    Just as in Grace’s thread where the object itself does not change its character, a person who loses weight doesn’t automatically change who they are, either.
    Being given a privilege that you were previously denied causes a fair bit of resentment – why wasn’t I worthy before? It’s realizing the privilege is that superficial that makes it distasteful.

  24. 24
    Ann Queue says:

    Yeah, a boyfriend’s social group in my 20s first decided I wasn’t cool enough to talk to. Then when they decided I was, I didn’t have any interest in talking to them, because it was clear how shallow their definition of ‘cool enough to talk to’ was. (He eventually dumped these people.)

  25. 25
    Eva says:

    Simple Truth, you hit the nail on the head. I’ve been trying to articulate this experience for a long time. Thanks for articulating it so well.

  26. 26
    nobody.really says:

    Tangential story on weight loss and attendant effect on status.

    For years I’ve volunteered to work with Merlin providing tech support for community and highschool theater. Tech support involves working in darkness and silence around lots of expensive equipment amidst a constant flow of new teenagers. Part of the job involves staying on your guard to keep kids from walking off with remotely-operated lighting fixtures and $400 wireless mic cables.

    Merlin’s 5’7”-ish, and maybe 40 yrs old, with nary a gray hair. As far as I’m concerned, he commands utmost respect due to his technical mastery of mind-numbingly complex sound and light boards and attendant equipment.

    Merlin recently lost a lot of weight. I don’t know how he perceives the change. But here’s how the change has affected me:

    1. I can now scarcely distinguish him from the highschool students we work with. Thus, I have to wonder that people who encounter him for the first time (parents of highschoolers, say) accord him a lower status than before.

    2. My subconscious does not recognize him. He simply does not move the same way he used to move. So in low light, I find myself on constant alert because my peripheral vision keeps registering that a total stranger is handling all the stuff! By the end of our last show I was exhausted.

    I imagine I’ll acclimate to the change in time. But I haven’t acclimated yet.