Pedophilia Fears Contributed to Child's Death

It’s a rare day in Mudville that I agree with Wendy McElroy

The toddler wandered from her nursery school, Ready Teddy Go, through a door left open. A bricklayer named Clive Peachey drove past her in his truck. At the inquest, he stated, “I kept thinking I should go back. The reason I didn’t was because I thought people might think I was trying to abduct her.”

Instead, he assured himself that the parents must be “driving around” and would find her.

A few minutes thereafter, Abby fatally fell into an algae-covered pond.

There’s no doubt that child molestation is a real problem, and increased awareness is a good thing. But as Abby’s story horribly illustrates, societies in which adults don’t feel free to approach or help strange children, are not child-safe.

McElroy, uncharacteristically, doesn’t comment on how this effects men in particular. But I think men are more likely to be seen as sexual predators, with the result that innocent men are more likely to worry about their actions being misconstrued than innocent women. (I’ve posted in the past about the extra suspicion some male child care workers have to deal with).

Curtsy: The Argument Clinic.

UPDATE: Abyss2hope has a different take.

This entry posted in Rape, intimate violence, & related issues, Sexism hurts men, Wendy McElroy. Bookmark the permalink. 

55 Responses to Pedophilia Fears Contributed to Child's Death

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  5. 5
    Lee says:

    I agree with you, Amp. There should be some way an adult can deal with a child without fearing a sex molestation charge. You can’t always be sure that there are two adults around, even in public places. Just recently, I was grocery shopping and came upon a lost 2-year-old child in one of the aisles. I had to stop and think very hard about what the best thing to do would be – I was afraid that if I left him to notify the store manager, he would just wander outside (we weren’t far from the loading dock), but I didn’t feel comfortable leading him by the hand to the store manager’s office, either. I finally just squatted about 6 feet away and talked to him until another shopper came by and asked her to report a lost child to the manager’s office. The period I was alone with this child was about 10 minutes, and I was almost as distressed as he was by the time the announcement went out over the P.A. system.

    Some states are more paranoid than others, as that very sad IL case illustrates. (In that case, I blame the parents for part of the problem – they were the ones who started the ball rolling by insisting on pressing charges, if I remember correctly.) For a while, our church actually had a policy where no man was allowed to change a diaper – not even the child’s parent. After about 6 months, this policy was modified to allow male parents to change diapers, but it took a lot of effort to get the church’s attorney to allow the amendment. Gaaaah.

  6. 6
    Jules says:

    That’s awful. But I sympathise with the brick layer. I would be afraid to approach a strange child as well, and I’m female with a child of my own. I avoid talking to my son’s peers in the park in case I’m accused of something. I can’t imagine how much worse men must feel about it.

  7. 7
    Roni says:

    My daughter’s daycare has one male worker and I know that for some parents it took some time to get use to him changing the diapers. It’s very, very sad.

    One day many years ago, while the hubby & I were at a park near the zoo, a lil guy was obviously at the park alone. He had wandered out of a nearby building after his karate practice (he was in his uni). We just talked to him and the hubby went to the building to look for a parent or staff member. Soon enough the mom came by. We did have a talk for a few secs about how to deal with the situation without us looking like we were kidnappers. It’s a crazy world out there!

  8. 8
    Kell says:

    Yeah, but…

    If I were in that situation (male & see a vulnerable kid), I’d first call 911 and give them the info, and ask whether or not they wanted me to stay nearby to keep an eye on her until the police arrived. And, if there were a radio in the truck to a work dispatcher, I’d let them know what was going on in case I were on my way to a work site or some such.

    In other words, the answer in this case is to be very, very visible. I can understand the guy hesitating, but a little common sense would go a long way, here.

  9. 9
    NJG from NYC says:

    I think the level of fear in our society for the safety of our children is fast approaching paranoia.

    Businesses, knowing that a parent’s natural concern for their children can be exploited to get them to buy stuff, play up this fear as much as possible in order increase sales. And of course the news media loves any story involving a child in danger: it gets ratings. So put that all together and you get a climate where people think that a child molester is lurking on every street corner, waiting to snap up their kid the moment s/he sticks a nose outside their front door.

    In reality, a kid today has far more to fear from obesity than child molestation.

  10. 10
    gengwall says:

    story 1. I wrote a sketch one time for church. In it, a child wanders off from a tour group and gets lost. Originally, I had her being befriended by a construction worker at the site. I had him sit next to her and talk to her, and then take her by the hand to go and find her parents.

    The leadership of the church made me change the sketch so that it wouldn’t conjure up images of child molestation and wouldn’t counter “stranger danger” messages being told to children. I protested saying I was sick of the worst being presumed whenever someone sees a male with a child, especially if there is contact between them. I lost the argument and changed the sketch so that the man never came close to the girl.

    story 2. My daughter wandered off from daycare one time when she was 4. She got quite far away. Finally, a police squad car tracked her down. The policeman asked her to get into the squad and he would take her back to daycare. She declined, saying she was told never to ride with strangers. “But”, she said, “you can follow me back if you want”. Indeed, he followed her all the way back. She never got into the car.

    It is a sad world we live in. The dilema for adults (particularly men) is quite real. But predators are real too. Whenever I have run across kids who I know personally who might like a ride home, I have always given them my phone and told them to call their parents first and tell them I am bringing them home. That never would have happened when I was a kid, and not because there were no cell phones then. We simply lived in a more trustworthy world back then. Now, I feal like I am being viewed with suspiscion whenver I interact with kids, even if their parents are only 20 ft away. I am probably paranoid, but only slightly. I also have kept my eye on kids in the mall, etc. when I see they are getting separated from their parents. I don’t intervene, but I watch until I am sure the parents have located them. I just worry so much about them because it only takes a second to abduct a kid.

  11. 11
    Kell says:

    “In reality, a kid today has far more to fear from obesity than child molestation.”

    The “childhood obesity epidemic” is a myth. Start with http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=030204F, and also Google “childhood obesity Jon Robinson.”

    Get another obsession, folks. This one’s been debunked.

  12. 12
    Sheelzebub says:

    Take the child, go to a business like a store, and ask to use the phone to call the cops, explaining that the child is lost and you’re worried they’ll get hurt. Cops show up, eventually find child’s parents. Problem solved.

  13. 13
    flyinfur says:

    I have never had a problem with helping a lost child or even just a child who appears to be lost. It would have never even occurred to me that someone might consider me a child molester.

    Then again, I look white (although I’m not), female, and grandmotherly. I do know several men who are afraid even to talk to small children who are accompanied by their parents for fear of being thought some sort of child molester.

  14. 14
    Polymath says:

    it’s not just strangers that have to worry. i have read descriptions of incidents written by parents of transracially adopted kids who are reported to police as possibly having abducted a child, and having then been confronted by the police about it. parents of transracially adopted kids are often urged to keep copies of official documents with them at all times so they can prove their parentage in such a situation.

    while i don’t have numbers to back this up, i suspect that the fear is truly way, way out of proportion to the danger.

  15. 15
    trey says:

    Oh, i feel the man’s pain (though like the commenter above, i would have at least called 911)

    I go through similar situations several times a year WITH MY OWN DAUGHTER.

    Because I am a man and my daughter is of a different racial background (and she has two dads, so there is no mother in sight), I get comments, looks and even one man SCREAMING at my partner and whoever would listen because he thought our daughter was being abducted, abused or something for no other reason that she was with a man of a different color.

    I deal with it everytime we leave the SF bay area (where transracial and glbt families are plentiful, so we aren’t so ‘out’). I’m in constant concern that someone is going to call the police because they see my daughter in the back seat..

    we have had this happen to two friends of ours.

    we carry passport and birth certificate copies with us now wherever we go.

  16. 16
    Nathaniel says:

    Indeed, this is one place where men get the short end of the stick. After years in NYC, where hanging out in a park is common leisure activity, I’ve had to give that up. Going to the park alone in most of the United States invites not just stares and whispers, but constant harrassment by cops, parents, etc.

    The notion that a guy wants to go sit on a bench and read a book for a few hours in the sunlight just doesn’t seem as likely as the possibility that he’s there to leer at children and plot their molestation.

  17. 17
    Mendy says:

    NJG

    In reality, a kid today has far more to fear from obesity than child molestation.

    When there are no less than 20 registered sex offenders (those with convictions regarding minors) living within 10 miles of my house, I worry about it. Not that I assume every man walking down the street is a pedophile, but prudence is something I practice.

    My kids know not to go up to strangers, not to go to a stranger’s house, nor take rides from them. I’m blessed that most of those on my street are older retired women that watch after the kids. I don’t know how much danger my children are actually in, but I’d rather not risk it. I can undo many, many things, but being molested is damage that can’t be undone…ever.

  18. 18
    CG says:

    As a woman, I don’t worry about it, but my husband doesn’t want to drive a female babysitter home. I don’t blame him. Recently, my friend’s father was accused of molesting a 12-yr-old girl that he knew. Apparently, someone did something to her because there was DNA evidence that cleared my friend’s father, but it’s been hell on her dad and the whole family and it’s not over yet. The charges will be dropped, but haven’t officially been dropped yet.

    One time, at a crowded outdoor craft show, I lost my daughter. I forgot she was walking beside me and not in the stroller I was pushing. I panicked, looked back behind me into a big crowd and got really worried. About 10 seconds later, she came loping along and a woman was walking near her. The woman said she was just walking with her until she was found. I was glad the woman handled it that way, because I found her (or she found me) so quickly. If the woman had led her off to a place where an announcement could be made, I wouldn’t have found her for probably 20 minutes and would have freaked out.

    To Nathanial, that’s sad about the park, but I’ll admit guilt. I never give anyone a hard time, but I do try to match up men to kids, and if there’s no match, I keep an eye out.

    To Gengall, wow! Four years old and handled herself quite well. Good for her.

  19. 19
    Pony says:

    You believe McElroy? She knows the end of her stories and will make up anything she needs to get there.

  20. 20
    Michelle says:

    I am not sure we are getting the whole story here – the man could have, and should have done something to help even if he was too afraid to approach the child physically. I think this is another attack on the feminist movement and its increased attention to the reality of sexual predation and to the fact that nearly all sexual predators are indeed men. Men are not “suffering” because of this, they are causing it. Thank you Kell for pointing out the ridiculous “obesity” comparison. That just crops up everywhere, doesn’t it?

  21. 21
    Z says:

    Help the child, for goodness sake! I do understand the paranoia. BUT, the reality is – you can let the child be in danger, or risk the vague possibility of being accussed of hurting, or wanting to hurt, the child.

    There would be no physical evidence. No DNA. No evidence, full-stop!

    ALSO, how many child molesters find unsupervised children – molest them – and THEN take them to the police station or to their parents?

    Probably none.

    Children are far too precious to ignore if they are alone and in trouble. Yes, use your cell-phone to call the cops and watch from a ‘safe distance’. That is a GREAT idea if you are concerned about being accused of something. But do NOT just leave the child alone.

    Paedophiles are a concern and should be a concern for parents. The reality is they are most often people who live in your home or who you let into your home and your life. They are not so often the strangers on the street.

  22. 22
    trey says:

    Michelle, yes, most sexual predators are men, and yes, I’m sure anti-feminists will use this as an attack on feminism…

    but the first argument is no better than saying that since a disportionate number of black men have commited violent crimes, it’s all right to show fear when one walks into the elevator. Most sexual predators are men doesn’t translate to most men are sexual predators. I assume you understand that.

    “Men” are not suffering, they are causing this?

    So, the next time a woman screams ‘help’ at the top of her lungs because I’m taking my daughter to the restroom and she thinks I’m abducting her or worse i should blame myself for being a man? Or blame other men? Or just blame those that are the sexual predators?

    Or the next time a woman (you see, its almost always women) comes up to me and asks me who my daughter is, doesn’t believe me (she’s black, i’m white) and then starts to interrogate my 3 year old daughter (where’s your daddy? where’s your mama?… questions themselves loaded unknown to her since I’m Papa), I’ll just blame myself and men as a group.

    Yes, I know… male priviledge and all that. I’ve got it. I understsand it. I live in a deeply patriarchal society and have benefited from it.

    Doesn’t negate that having my morality and motives questions constantly when out in public with my own daughter is easy or right.

  23. 23
    trey says:

    I agree with Z, michelle and others btw, this man had a LOT of options he could have taken. The fear of being labeled a pedophile seems a lame excuse.

    and yes Z, something like over 90something% of child molesters are related to the child or family friends.

    so, if we give as many accusing looks and comments to our uncles, brothers and friends as we do strangers, than perhaps we can call it a rational response.

  24. 24
    dorktastic says:

    Such a sad story. The level of paranoia about children’s safety in North America seems to get higher all the time. Some of this is positive – children should be “street proofed” (this is the term we always used when I was a camp counselor), and taught what to do if someone tries to touch them inappropriately, but a lot of it seems really overblown. Maybe I wouldn’t mind so much if I thought people were worrying about the right things? The majority of child abductors are non-custodial parents, child molesters are often in positions of trust and authority (pastor, teacher, coach, neighbor, family friend), but so many of the parents I know seem to worry about strangers. Of course, this could just be my own perceptions as a non-parent.
    When I was in high school, I worked as a camp counselor at a day camp during the summers. Counselors were told that we weren’t allowed to help kids apply sunscreen (even children as young as 5 and 6) or hug a child. The hugging thing I can sort of understand – sometimes kids don’t want to be touched, and they might be uncomfortable expressing this to an adult who is in a position of authority, and adults might miss physical cues like body language. But we weren’t allowed to hug kids even if they explicitly asked for a hug. A lot of parents expressed frustration wtih these policies – how many times can your kid get sunscreen in their eye or get a sunburn before you just let the counselor help?
    /end ramble

  25. 25
    Z says:

    hehe incidentally I AM suspicious of basically everyone, due to being surrounded by paedophiles growing up.

    I try to think rationally however. You have to look at each situation individually and with some common sense.

    I am less inclined to trust men. However, that in no way means I would accuse a man of abusing my daughter if she was lost and he took her to the police station!

    If there was any real evidence that something untoward had occured – then that is something which needs to be looked into. Otherwise — one is to be damn grateful that someone saved their child from the perils of being out in the world all on their own!

    What I am saying is — you can have a knee-jerk ‘gut’ reaction to something because of past experiences/trauma — but that doesn’t mean you need to act on it and go off your nut about something if no objective evidence is there.

    Take care,

  26. 26
    Nathaniel says:

    I think something people are missing here is not that the man was worried he’d deliver the girl to the police station and then be accused of something.

    What he was worried about (because I would worry about it) is that when he approached the child, she’d scream, attract attention, and the next thing you know ten locals would be on top of him with baseball bats before he could explain he was just trying to help what appeared to be a lost child.

    Either calling the police or going into a local store and telling them about the situation are the only options I’d consider “safe” for the man. Directly approaching the child under any circumstances is an invitation for anything from a few hours of questioning to a night in the morgue. Tsk tsk him all you want, but it’s understandable why he’d just say “it’s not worth it, I’m not getting involved”.

    I’m glad both my neices have a family resemblance to me and people usually assume I’m their father if we’re out.

  27. 27
    Kaethe says:

    While I don’t argue that had the man stopped to think about it he could have come up with options, I do think that the over-hyped (Fox News, I’m looking at you) fear of “stranger danger” was a factor. Children are most likely to be molested by family or associates, and are most likely to be abducted by non-custodial family members. But there’s a lot of screaming and handwaving over pedophiles with no distinction made between a man of 20 who has a relationship with a 16 year old whom he proceeds to marry, and the unlikely danger of abduction, molestation, and murder. All sexual offenders are not equal, and not all offenders are sadistic killers, but those are the ones that get heavy rotation in the news cycle.

    Men are worried. They are afraid. My own father-in-law, admittedly a man who watches way too much news, is afraid to hold his granddaughters lest he be accused of something. We’re doing a huge disservice to men, asking them to be more involved as parents and simultaneously looking askance at all of them.

  28. 28
    ADS says:

    I don’t know, this reads to me a lot more like the same old “well, it’s nothing to do with me, so why should I interrupt my life to help someone I don’t know.” If he were worried about being mistaken for a kidnapper or molester, but actually wanted to help, he would have done SOMETHING, even if only calling 911 before driving away.

  29. As someone who was sexually abused as a kid by a relative stranger–he lived in my building, but no one, as far as I know, even knew his name–and as a parent, I find myself having several conflicting responses to this story. First, and perahps most simply, assuming that McELroy is telling the truth about why he responded to the sight of the little girl in the way that he did–and that is an assumption–it does not seem to me unreasonable that none of the actions that people point out he could have taken did not occur to him. People often don’t think straight when first confronted with a situation where they have to make choices that they imagine could have serious consequences for their lives. If he acted the same way in the same situation a second time, then I would say there is a problem.

    Second, while I am very aware that pedophilia is a problem, as is child kidnapping/trafficking/etc., I am also very aware of how the media has created the monster pedophile as our contemporary version of the boogey-man, the inhuman, depraved monster that haunts our dreams, the nightmare vision we warn our children about, the one who will “get them” if they are not careful–and I am of course not saying we shouldn’t teach our children to be careful. So pervasive has the image of the monster pedophile become in our cultural thinking about child sexual abuse that we end up focusing neither on the real people who commit that abuse nor on the real children who are the victims/survivors of it.

    It is not good that men like McELroy feel the way they do, but it is important to remember that they feel that way not because of the realities of child sexual abuse, but because they are afraid of being mistaken for the monster pedophile, and so it is even more important to recognize that it is the image of the monster pedophile that consitutes a backlash against, as Michelle wrote above, “the feminist movement and its increased attention to the reality of sexual predation and to the fact that nearly all sexual predators are indeed men.” Because to the degree that we can make the (overwhelmingly male) pedophile into a monster who is not like us (men), to the degree that we exclude him from humanity, then we can see him almost as a separate species of man, and so the problem of pedophilia is not a problem of men, of male dominance, a problem that emerges from within and is in fact inherent to patriarchal culture; rather, it is a problem that comes from the outside, is something that “they” cause and that we can “solve” by keeping ourselves as far away from them as possible and keeping them as far away as possible from us.

    But I also wonder about the effect the image of the monster pedophile has on children. What does it teach kids about men and men’s bodies when men like Kaethe’s father-in-law are afraid to hold their own granddaughters? Because children, boys and girls, sense such things even if they have no name for it.

    Finally, as a parent, I am conscious of how important it is to teach my son to be careful; I am also conscious of the fact that he has now, at 7, knowledge of how to respond of he is approached by a stranger in the street that I did not possess when I was 11 or 12 and the man in my building pushed me into a corner of the lobby and groped me (the whole story is longer than that, but that’s where it started), and I am very grateful for that fact. At the same time, I wonder about statements like Mendy’s:

    I can undo many, many things, but being molested is damage that can’t be undone…ever.

    This is, of course, true, but there are many things that happen to children, and adults for that matter, that cannot be undone: the accidental death of a friend or parent, injuries that result in paralysis, being orphaned, losing one’s home and all one’s possessions in a fire–and all of these can happen because one or one’s parents were not careful enough to prevent them. The important thing, though, is that no matter how badly such experiences, including child sexual abuse, might traumatize someone, healing is still and always possible. I am not trying to argue for an equivalence between and among these various experiences, nor am I trying to say that because healing is possible one shouldn’t worry about being careful, nor am I saying that everyone who suffers from such an experience does heal or heal to the same degree. I just think it is a mistake, precisely because it feeds the phenomenon of the monster pedophile, to frame child sexual abuse as an unhealable trauma.

    Sorry to have gone on for so long.

  30. 30
    Kell says:

    Something’s not right here…

    Like, there’s an assumption that a man’s right to be presumed innocent requires that children (and women) place themselves in risky situations to demonstrate how trustworthy those innocent men are? Because the adult male state of mind/access/ease of travel is more important than kids’ and womens’ states of mine/access/ease of travel?

    “Men are worried. They are afraid. My own father-in-law, admittedly a man who watches way too much news, is afraid to hold his granddaughters lest he be accused of something. ”

    Or, perhaps, he’s listening to too much Rish Limbaugh? Sorry, but this sounds far less like fear and a lot more like some sort of resentment at being denied 100% free access to the world at the expense of children’s and women’s safety. OK, so, guys get looked at sideways if they’re at a park in the daylight. And women and kids get killed if they’re in the park at night. Who has the worse problem?

    I repeat. Any man whose worried his actions might make him look suspicious needs only to make himself very visible in order to get rid of most of the problem. If grandpa’s got a kid on his lap at Thanksgiving in full view of the rest of the family, he doesn’t have a whole lot to worry about. Playing victim, however, when coming up against the truth that he does not have the right to do whatever he wants with a kid when alone does make him look suspicious. Playing victim, over exaggerating the risk to men (which is far, far less than the risk to kids and women) is just an attempt to keep the status quo intact. No, kids and women are not property. Yes, the sexual use of children is an epidemic. If grandpa wants to get angry, he should get involved in efforts to protect children’s safety instead of whining because society is no longer tacitly endorsing their use as sex slaves.

  31. 31
    rob says:

    Its a profiling issue. I’d rather have people look askance at me than have children get molested because of an unobservant parent.

  32. 32
    Pony says:

    Children get molested because of an unobservant parent?

    Children get molested because some asshole thinks he/she can do it. Our society tells them they can, and makes excuses for them, like you and McElroy just did.

  33. 33
    Kell says:

    Or, to put it another way…

    Putting up with background checks (as a 25-year-old woman I had to be fingerprinted and record-checked in 1985 to be a student teacher; it’s not just men), or presenting ID, or generally just acting throughout the day with the full knowledge that the threats against kids and women are very, very real is the duty of all citizens when living in this war zone. Being checked out at the park is the same sort of act as going through the metal detector at the airport. And, requiring everyone on the place to risk being hijacked (or worse) just because one person is personally insulted or mildly inconvenienced is simply unreasonable. And, expecting kids and women to put up with a higher level of personal danger in order to avoid inconveniencing some men is also unreasonable.

    And, yes, it’s appropriate to note that it’s not fun. However, the people to communicate that observation to are rapists and murderers, not people merely trying to stay alive and unharmed. (And, there are victim/offender programs that do allow private citizens to do just that. Might be an interesting conversation to talk with these guys about how they’re hurting men, too.)

  34. 34
    Zakia says:

    Pony. I don’t know what society you live in where the masses believe that it is okay for a pedophile to harm a child and make excuses for them. Where I live at, on planet earth. Pedophilia is one of the worse crimes anyone can be accused of and has been the cause of many of men being killed or mutilated. It is also one of the only crimes that an innocent man or women could spend their entire ruined lives trying to wash off of themselves.

    And Kell I believe you are providing the exact example why Ampersand had to address this issue. Your assumption that a man, by the fact alone of him being a man, is out to sexual prey on women and children. You make light of the real damage false suspicions of pedophile can do to a person lives and family.

    “Or, perhaps, he’s listening to too much Rish Limbaugh? Sorry, but this sounds far less like fear and a lot more like some sort of resentment at being denied 100% free access to the world at the expense of children’s and women’s safety.”

    I see an accusation that Kaeth’s father-in-law and the others here that provided such examples as sexual predators that are upset because they cannot sexually prey on women and children. Therefore you are already hinting to this person, whom you don’t not know, as being some sort of sexual predator by the fact he is a man afraid of people like you ruining his life because of your hysteria.

    If ‘Grandpa’ has his granddaughter on an outing for the day and needs to change his granddaughters diaper, say in his car for privacy, you would be one of those people that are thinking in your mind grandpa is molesting his granddaughter a car, probably call the police on him, and ruin his life and the lives of his family.

    Should I require my male sons to only have male teachers once they get to grade school because of the rampantness of female teachers and women in general preying on male children? Should I complain to an airline that no unaccompanied 8-15 year old boy child should sit next to a women. Or should I tell my state that women shouldn’ tbe allowed to teach daycare and kinder because in every developed country they are the main perps of overall child abuse?

    The answer is no. That would be discriminatory and would assume that I felt all women, by the fact of them being women, were child abusers – which would include myself.

  35. 35
    rob says:

    Woah there horsie!!!

    What I was saying is that predator’s use opportunities to abuse. Good parents (oops!!! value judgment!!!) provide them with as few chances as possible.

    My point was that I think its better to have people a bit suspicious of men, even men who have no sexual (power?) interest in children, even if it makes some people feel bad.

    Where did I make excuses for pedophiles? I said that its too bad that some men get accosted when they’re with children, but its better that way. Come to think of it, I don’t see that McElroy did either.

    I don’t see how society encourages pedophila, but that might be because I don’t have a hair trigger temper.

  36. 36
    Nathaniel says:

    I think Kell read a different article and discussion than the rest of us.

  37. 37
    Elena says:

    I have been with my daughter on 2 occasions when she was a little ahead of me in public and a strange woman asked “where’s your mommy?” whereupon she pointed to me and the ladies apologized and I said: thanks for looking out. Because we all have to look out. I once followed a little boy around a store to make sure he’d find his mom. He spoke no English and I couldn’t ask him.

    Point: the man driving by did a terrible thing, by his own description. To see a very young child walking down a street alone and to decide it’s too risky to his reputation to help was wrong. Any decent adult would let his reputation go hang to make sure a toddler stays safe, and the truth is his reputation was never in any real danger anyway.

  38. 38
    Z says:

    I agree about the grandpa thing. I have heard this ‘excuse’ before and it doesn’t wash with me.

    It IS a backlash against a society trying to make a safer place for women and children.

    If you are doing NOTHING WRONG then why so uptight about it? The fact is women do not want to accuse men of abusing when they have done nothing wrong!!!!!!!! You see, this is what I don’t like. This new idea that women maliciously go around making false accusations all the time.

    SOME women might make false accusations. Yes. I have dealt with somebody in the past who made up lies about being raped etc. It didn’t take much pressure (direct questioning) to get the truth out of her.

    However – the vast majority of women and parents in general just want their children to be safe!! You protect your children to the very best of your ability. If failing that, there is EVIDENCE that something awful has happened, THEN you look into it. And yes – you DO keep your eyes and ears open and you do need to be aware of more ‘subtle’ signs that something is wrong. It might not be sexual abuse. It could be bullying at school, or anything. As parents you need to be aware of ALL the dangers your children could encounter.

    A grandfather innocently hugging his grandchildren (Males do not just abuse females and females do not just abuse males. That’s ridiculous) has nothing to worry about. If some ‘bad seed’ in the family decided to make up lies about him the rest of the family would gather around and support his innocence. THIS HAPPENS OFTEN ENOUGH WHEN THE PERSON IS ACTUALLY GUILTY!

    The fact remains — FAR more paedophiles and abusers will never see the inside of a prison cell than those who DO.

    Err on the side of caution. Use common sense.

    There is no need to get all pissed off because society is trying to actually protect our kids now.

    Incidentally I am a survivor of chronic sexual abuse/incest. I have a young daughter. My husband has NEVER felt like he would be ‘accused’ of anything. Know why? Because he is of excellent character and he *would never abuse somebody*. Hence, he has a clear conscience and nothing to worry about. If the grandfather has a clear conscience — go ahead and hug your grandchildren for goodness sake! The ‘risk’ is miniscule and yes — if you are truly concerned, hug them in full view of everybody.

  39. 39
    B says:

    I believe that the most important thing we can do to protect our children is to teach them that they decide over their own bodies. Encourage them to protest when people touch them in any way they don’t like and don’t do it yourself (I’m talking completely innocent touches here). Teach them not to obey adults blindly by offering them choices when possible and explaining your decisions when you are the one deciding. Tell them that they never have to keep secrets and never punish them for telling the truth. Or for rejecting cuddly godparents, aunts, grandparents et.c.

    Looking out for strangers really isn’t very effective at all.

    On another and more happy tangent I cannot walk out the door here in Sweden without seeing daddies pushing around babycarriages on the streets. Things can, and do, change.

  40. 40
    Kell says:

    “I think Kell read a different article and discussion than the rest of us. ”

    What I’m seeing are some men complaining because they think they’re at risk of being wrongly accused as abusers or sexual criminals. (With the subtext that, therefore, the degree of caution exercised to protect women and children from abusers and sex criminals is unfair, unreasonable and excessive, and we need to go back to the prior level of greater male “freedom” — and greater female & kid levels of danger. In other words, men matter more than women and kids, and their concerns should take precendence in every circumstance.)

    I’m saying that the existing level of caution is fair and reasonable (personally, I think we need to do even more) considering the extraordinary level of risk of death and injury forced on women and kids. At least 25% of women will be sexually violated at some time in their lives; the number for boys is at last one in ten. In other words, so long as we’re at war, this is the way we’re going to have to live. Men, certainly, are welcome to offer ideas for refining or improving methods for increasing women’s and kids’ safety, but anyone claiming that their need to feel “accepted,” or to not be bothering by formal and informal security checkpoints (i.e. background checks for getting jobs, or being watched closely by parents at a park) supersedes women’s and kids’ need for safety is not only out of line, he’s also SOL.

    As for the bricklayer guy, his trying to blame his lack of action on the fact that kids and women need to protect themselves is simply specious. No sympathy, here. Taking a reaonsable idea (i.e. communities keeping an eye on kids and their welfare) to an absurd conclusion (accusing a guy of being a criminal if he calls the police or otherwise tries to help a lost kid) is a passive-aggressive and illogical attempt to attack the rights of women and kids to have control over their own bodies. He’s claiming that he didn’t help the kid because other people’s perfectly reasonable precautions somehow intrude unreasoably into his life. I don’t buy it.

  41. 41
    Nathaniel says:

    With the subtext that, therefore, the degree of caution exercised to protect women and children from abusers and sex criminals is unfair, unreasonable and excessive, and we need to go back to the prior level of greater male “freedom” … and greater female & kid levels of danger. In other words, men matter more than women and kids, and their concerns should take precendence in every circumstance

    Yep, that was the discussion nobody was having but Kell.

  42. 42
    mythago says:

    With the subtext that, therefore, the degree of caution exercised to protect women and children from abusers and sex criminals is unfair, unreasonable and excessive, and we need to go back to the prior level of greater male “freedom”

    Um, no. Perhaps with the subtext that we need to stop assuming that real, manly men want nothing to do with all that woman’s-work childcare stuff (therefore men who spend time around children are Unnatural and Unmanly, either queer or predatory, perhaps both).

    And, perhaps, that we should stop assuming that the only people who are sexual predators are strange loner men. It’s ever so much more comfortable to worry about strangers than to consider that Uncle Bob, or the new coach, or a best friend could be rapists.

  43. 43
    Kell says:

    I hear you protesting, but you’re not offering any solutions. There are enough stranger rapes/abductions to make watching out for that risk worthwhile. (I live near Yosemite. Wanna hear some horror stories?)

    What are your suggestions for ways the community can simultaneously foil pedaphiles/rapists/murderers and protect kidswhile also not bothering men more than you feel is fair?

  44. 44
    B says:

    Kell

    Did you see my post?

  45. 45
    Kell says:

    Inresponse to B’s question– that’s good advice for helping prevent incestuous or acquaintenance crimes, and perhaps even some stranger “seduction” crimes, but doesn’t do much for dealing with stranger abductions. Self-defense training of all kinds for kids can help a little, but obviously isn’t enough when dealing with a snatch & grab (and those crimes to occur), or even a seduction criminal who’s not going to be intimidated by a kid saying “no.” There are different types and degrees of violence against kids, and no solutions are mutually exclusive. Some people here are arguing that stranger attacks and abductions don’t occur, or aren’t frequent enough to warrant the community watching out for children, and I disagree. The Nat’l Center for Missing and Exploited Children estimates that the number of “non-family” abductions annually in the U.S. is about 4,500; about 150 of those children and teenagers will be killed, and almost all of them will be sexually assaulted or raped.

  46. 47
    mythago says:

    I hear you protesting, but you’re not offering any solutions.

    I don’t know what you’re hearing. It doesn’t appear to correlate with anything I’ve written. Solutions? Stop treating childrearing as inferior “women’s work”; be vigilant for sexual violence and misbehavior in general, rather than focusing anxiety on strangers and ignoring the rapist in the living room.

    There’s a difference between being aware of rapes by strangers, and pretending that strangers are the biggest threat–the latter does nothing but protect predators. I suggest you compare your numbers of ‘nonfamily abductions’ to the number of children raped, beaten and killed by acquaintances and family members.

  47. You know, it seems to me that being an object of suspicion when it comes to questions of sexual violence, including child sexual abuse, comes with the territory of being a man. How is someone’s wondering what I am doing in a kid’s park without kids or about the possibility that I might not have been safe for the child I found wandering around in the park and then brought back to her or his parent(s) different from a woman wondering about me when she sees me walking behind her and we are the only two people on a dark street? That said, however, there is a difference between acknowledging that a certain degree of caution is necessary, and it may be a very high degree, and suggesting that a response that is congruent with the media-created image of what I am calling the “monster pedophile” is a good thing.

  48. Pingback: New Game Plus » Oblivious Wangst: Coming Out of the Kitchen

  49. 49
    Kell says:

    “Solutions? Stop treating childrearing as inferior “women’s work”; be vigilant for sexual violence and misbehavior in general, rather than focusing anxiety on strangers and ignoring the rapist in the living room.”

    Focusing on both stranger, and caretaker (i.e. childcare workers, which is a far larger number than that 4,500), and familial abuse and attacks can all happen simultaneously. Acknowledging that most victims will be harmed by family members doesn’t make the stranger & caretaker crimes magically disappear. As you said, let’s “be vigilant for sexual violence and misbehavior in general,” and that includes teachers and child care workers.

    You’ve not delineated what practice you’re protesting when it comes to child care. If you’re objecting to background checks and fingerprinting, those practices are extended to all adults, not just men. If you’re objecting to parents not wanting to leave their kids in facilities with men, then your task is to educate them, and perhaps provide better monitoring for kids in particular facilities. (For instance, some centers have a policy that at no time are kids left in the care of just one adult.) If you’re objecting to employers not wanting to hire male child care workers, that decision likely has far more to do with the wishes of their customers than with what they think the reality is.

    And, if you’re objecting to the vigilence in childcare itself, I’m saying you’re sadly mistaken. Parents are under no obligation to place their kids at risk of injury or murder just to make you feel better, and those same parents and kids are not responsible for the danger. In this case, your beef is with the criminals, not the victims. So why aren’t you demanding the crimes stop instead of expecting children and women to just be quiet, cooperative victims and pretend everything’s fine?

  50. 50
    mythago says:

    Focusing on both stranger, and caretaker (i.e. childcare workers, which is a far larger number than that 4,500), and familial abuse and attacks can all happen simultaneously.

    But they don’t. There’s a disproportionate paranoia about stranger rapes and an even more disproportionate lack of vigilanace about all other kinds of sexual violence–the only notable recent exception being the recent panic about abuse at daycare centers.

    I am a parent, by the way. If you’re not, I suggest you stop the prattling about what ‘parents’ want, as though you knew more about what ‘parents’ want than an actual parent.

    instead of expecting children and women to just be quiet, cooperative victims

    Kell, I don’t know who you’re arguing with here, but if you’d prefer to simply invent things I never said and pretend I said the exact opposite of what I did say, then my presence in any conversation with you is not actually necessary.

    Richard, of course it’s wise to be cautious of strangers. The problem is when the woman who is more alert when she sees you walking near her isn’t vigilant when you’re an acquaintance she meets at a party, because she’s lied to about the relative risk of acquaintance rape, and punished if she’s suspicious of anyone but a stranger. (You know the routine: don’t be a paranoid bitch, he’s a perfectly nice guy, why do you assume every guy wants you, blah blah blah.

    Similarly, of course it’s smart for parents at the park to be aware of what other adults are there. But your kids are far less likely to be threatened by the guy sitting and reading his book at the park than by their swim coach, or Uncle Bob, or the apartment complex handyman who has keys to every unit in the building.

  51. mythago: I think we agree. What I have been calling the “monster pedophile” is referring to what I think you mean when you talk about the emphasis people place on stranger rape. My point in the comment you’re referring to is that while I think Kell is correct–if I understand her correctly–that a certain amount of suspicion comes with the territory if you are a man who is a stranger in any of the situations we’ve been talking about, to suggest that it is reasonable to raise the level of that suspicion to the degree “demanded” by the image of the “monster pedophile” is to fall into the backlash trap that she is arguing against precisely because it fails to account for the reality of who abusers really are.

  52. 52
    Mendy says:

    Richard Jeffery Newman,

    I understand what you are saying about my comment, and in that larger sense of “society” I think your analysis holds true. I’ve been the victim of sexual violence as well, and I have healed. However, if at all possible I’d like to prevent my children from ever having to go through that particular hell at any age.

    Rape, assault, molestation unlike the death of a friend or parent (death in general) is different. We expect to lose people we love. Death is a natural part of life, and I’ve also tried to teach my children this fact as well.

    When I stated that I gave my kids information, it wasn’t just about the stranger on the street, but the gym teacher, minister, or Uncle Bob. I am very aware that most abusers are known to their victims. I just prefer to cover all my bases.

    Btw, good discussion everyone.

  53. 53
    mythago says:

    Exactly, Richard. Teaching children to be careful of people they don’t know is wise; teaching them what sort of stranger interactions are appropriate, and which aren’t, is also wise. (Gavin de Becker gives the example of a man in a parking garage offering to help a strange woman load groceries into her car; however well-intentioned he may be, his behavior isn’t appropriate.) The whole “don’t talk to strangers” thing is ridiculous and cripples children’s ability to distinguish between harmless strangers and predators. And it teaches them that only strangers are worth worrying about.

  54. 54
    Jackie says:

    There certainly is sexism, in regards to men being assumed to be sexual predators more than women. In some cases like Debra LaFave, women who are predators get away with it, and their victim is told they were lucky to be raped by such a beautiful woman.

    I’ve been disgusted with this notion that women can’t be sexual predators because of their presumed maternal nature, while men have to walk on eggshells around kids to avoid being assumed to be a predator. Women are just as capable of evil acts as men are, suggesting otherwise is relegating women to age old stereotypes of being perfect. It’s like Rammstein’s video for Sonne, where they showed Snow White was abusive to the dwarves, making them work endlessly in the mines for her gold addiction. It’s fantasy to think women are incapable of harming children.

    Meanwhile the male victims are told to “Take it like a man”, and society just acts as if male rape isn’t an issue. If I were a guy I’d be even more angry, the idea that a woman can rape a boy and just walk out out of the courtroom because, “She’s too pretty for jail”, and a 20 year old man who has sex with a 15 year old dressed like a 20 year old is labeled a sex offender the rest of his life. It’s absolutely stunning inequality, and now this child died because of it.