I’m late with this, but the three Wisconsin police officers accused of attacking Frank Jude Jr. and Lovell Harris were found not guilty on April 14. The three were accused of being among a dozen off-duty cops, all white, who dragged Jude (who is biracial) and Harris out of a truck. Harris successfully fled after being cut with a knife, but Jude was pulled to the ground and beaten to a pulp.
I’ve never heard of the Jude case before today. Am I ridiculously out of it, or has the media severely underreported this story?
Here are some details. For a much fuller account, read the newspaper story reprinted at Thefreeslave.
Jude, a part-time stripper, attended the party at the invitation of two women who saw him perform at a different party earlier that night. The women testified that Jude was dragged out of the truck and beaten. But other off-duty cops at the party claimed that Jude began the fight after being accused of stealing a badge, and that the force used against him were reasonable.
The police report indicates that Jude fought the off-duty officers and later the uniformed officers, refusing to put his hands behind his back. Antonissen and Brown said that’s not true.
“They had his arms behind his back the whole time,” Brown said. “There was nothing he could do.”
None of the cops defending themselves against Jude were injured at all. Jude, however, “suffered a concussion, a broken nose and fractured sinus cavity, cuts in both ears, cuts and swelling to his left eye, neck, head, face, legs and back, and a severely sprained left hand, his attorney said. His left eye was swollen shut and continued to bleed for 10 days… Jude said he will need surgery to breathe through his nose again, may have permanent disability in one hand and suffers diminished vision.” Also, Jude was left naked from the waist down by the cops.
From the transcript of the 911 call:
At one point on the tape of the 911 call, Antonissen tells the operator one of the officers is trying to get her off the phone.
“He’s stealing the phone from me,” Antonissen says. “They’re twisting my arm.”
A man says, “Hang up the phone.”
“Hello?” the operator says.
Then the line goes dead.
* * *
So how did they get a jury to let them off?
Well, it sure as hell helped that they were white, and cops, and that their victim was neither. And the defense lawyers managed to purge the jury pool of all black members (the last two taken off were accused of not being attentive enough).
It also helped that most white cops, when it comes to racist criminals in their won ranks, are happy to cover up crime. From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:
[Prosecutor] McCann hammered on a “police code of silence” during the 13-day trial, noting that a half-dozen non-police witnesses saw kicking and beating, while none of the eight police witnesses for the defense said they saw that.
On the state’s side was the graphic post-beating photo of Jude blown up to poster size, and two key witnesses: the first on-duty officers on the scene. Those officers identified the three defendants. They also told of retaliation because of their cooperation in the case. One has taken a stress-related retirement.
The defense railed against those officers and accused one of them, Joseph Schabel, of being the one who kicked Jude, an accusation that didn’t surface until the trial. They pointed to a 911 tape in which a witness said on-duty officers were kicking Jude, too.
Interestingly, the three defendants had three different lawyers who chose to tell three different stories.
Each defense attorney argued a different case: Bartlett was trying to make a legal arrest and Jude was fighting; Spengler restrained Jude but was blamed for beating him because it was his party; and Masarik was inside the house looking for his police logbook when the beating occurred and was confused with someone else.
The three defendants were charged in each count as being “a party to the crime,” an important distinction. It doesn’t require proof that the person committed the crime. The person also can be convicted if he or she is “aiding and abetting” the person who did it or was a member of a conspiracy to commit the crime.
Under that definition, even if it was proven that a defendant stood around Jude and was “ready and willing to assist,” but didn’t do anything, he could be convicted, according to the jury instruction.
Of the three defenses, only one of them – the cop who claimed that he wasn’t in the area and didn’t know the beating was going on – strikes me as even marginally plausible. The other two officers essentially claimed that nothing untoward happened and that reasonable force was used. Given the huge extent of injuries suffered by Frank Jude, the eyewitness reports, and the 911 call, the idea that the cops did nothing wrong here isn’t credible.
* * *
I’ve seen a couple of right-wingers point out that Jude himself is apparently a woman-beating asshole. But that in no way excuses this verdict, nor does it mitigate the obvious racism and brutality of the cops who beat Jude.
There’s a lot in common between what happened to Jude and when the Klan burns a cross on a black family’s lawn. This is a horrible crime against individuals, but it’s also a hate crime against the entire black community. The effect of a crime like this – and the subsequent not guilty verdict – is to remind all blacks that a substantial number of whites consider blacks to be a good deal less than human.
Frank Jude said: “If I committed this crime, I would be in jail. They should not be on the street. I am scared. I don’t need that, and my kids don’t need that.”
How big is the white privilege that comes with not having to fear that cops will beat me within an inch of my life for no reason? How big is the white privilege of never having the cops send my community a message of hate like that? Frankly, I don’t have a measuring stick big enough.
(Cross-posted at Creative Destruction. If you’re a right-winger who is having trouble getting your comment through here, you might try posting it over there.)
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Rhetorical question, right? Juries almost always either acquit cops or hang juries. It’s like either they don’t want to believe cops commit crimes or they want to believe that there is some good reason. Who wants their perception of those who “protect and serve” turned upside down? Very few White middle class or better off people, for sure. Most people in that class don’t even want to go there.
I’m not sure prosecutors try these cases as zealously as they do others. After all, they have to kick out their bed partner and say, I have to prosecute you now. Then there’s the fact that it also depends on which LE does the investigation. Is it the same one that employs them? Sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes not, if it’s another agency doing it, but almost always(I say almost, b/c molestation crimes might be an exception in some cases) it makes a huge difference if it’s the same agency.
It should never ever be the agency that employs them. Not ever.
Other agencies might be more zealous(I talked to one sgt. who busted one of our local cops for a DUI and he was pissed off that she got wrist slapped by the DA) . Some not, almost like they want to help a fellow brother or sister out.
Expulsion of Black jurors? Yep. DAs in several jurisdictions including Philadelphia and one in Texas actually had manuals on how to expel Black jurors.
Pictures can indict as can video in cases where the only one facing charges(usually resisting or battery of an officer) would be the victim. But repeat this,
Videos do not convict.
Plenty of examples to cite there.
(emphasis, mine)
The first is the “code of silence”. Of course, they, the police witnesses, didn’t see a damn thing. Civilian and police accounts of incidents often conflict. The investigating LE agency fixes that, by discounting the civilians. Problem, solved.
The second, is one important reason *why* the code exists. Breaking it can endanger your safety as an officer (if no one will back you up when you need it) and sadly, few things are more stressful than when you do. Stress retirements are the norm, not the exception.
No you don’t, Amp. You really don’t. A lot of it is racial privilage, but cops beat gays, transgenders and lesbians too. Ours did. Nationwide, they pick on the most vulnerable populations that people don’t care much about.
I live in Wisconsin and I hadn’t heard about this case until the verdict came in, so I think you’re correct that it was underreported. I tend to get my news from a wide variety of online sources because the local news is way too fluffy for me, but strangely the first time I heard about this case was as I waited for my local television news to get to the weather report one morning.
Oops, this section I wrote ended up in the quote by accident:
Pictures can indict as can video in cases where the only one facing charges(usually resisting or battery of an officer) would be the victim. But repeat this,
Videos do not convict.
Plenty of examples to cite there.
————————————————-
Juries tend to be mostly White, because often these the defense attorneys file for a change of venue, arguing they can’t get a fair trial where it happened(i.e. King’s case went to Simi Valley(aka as Copland for L.A. officers and Amadeu Diallo’s case went from NYC to Albany. Both resulted in acquittals (although jurors in King’s case did deadlock on one battery charge). White juries also account for the high acquittal rate. People of color who serve on jurors especially African-Americans tend to scrutinize the testimony and evidence presented by LE witnesses more carefully. Too many White jurors assume if a cop testifies to something, it’s fact.
Yes, including officers. Ever heard of the term NHI and wondered where it comes from?
Cops
The code of silence is stronger for White officers. Some White officers who believe that this wall should be iron clad around the misconduct of White male officers will gladly spill the beans on alleged misconduct of female officers or male officers of color. Didn’t know this, until I saw it myself.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I’ll never get this “blockquote” figured out.
[I made my best guess at fixing the two posts! –Amp]
thank you for the post and for your last paragraph in particular. if anything, i think the following has changed since the king verdict: i think more people (white males in particular) are beginning to understand the nature of white (or male or heterosexual or whatever) privilege.
the justice system (from the cops to the courts to the prisons) largely don’t work for american black people (or at least it is perceived not to work, which might be just as bad). i doubt that anyone deserves a beating like jude got, but if no cops were injured in apprehending him there’s no way he deserved it. we white people all need to understand the peace of mind that comes from “knowing” that if we are wronged, there are institutions in place to right that wrong. i don’t think american black people “know” it in the same way.
so anyway, thanks for the privilege-reminder.
Well, it also helped that this happened here in Milwaukee, the city where cops kill black men with impunity.
Having an all-white jury sweetened the pot, too.
And the reaction here in my city is pure disgust and indignation. As an interesting twist, though, one of the officers who got off is now in court facing a lawsuit brought by the family of another black man he shot (7 times) and killed two years ago.
Polymath wrote:
Now if we could just figure out a way to keep those understanding folks from getting thrown off juries during the selection process.
It helps when understanding folks don’t treat dodging jury service as a sign of higher intelligence.
Hopefully this man will at least be able to sue the officers. No Fifith Amendment for them to hide behind anymore.
In fairness to the jury, mythago, it sounds like they didn’t have a lot to work with. The problem appears to have been that nobody would testify, not that the jury wouldn’t accept the testimony. (They did deadlock on one battery charge, which implies that at least some people on the jury believed that the cops had done at least some of what they were accused of.)
I don’t know of any way to mitigate the problem. Policing ethnically diverse places is tough, even with the best will in the world – and it appears that they’re far from having that will.
I don’t think it’s just a perception. It’s reality. It’s always been reality.
There are many people who believed that the death penalty was established to replace lynching, given its propensity in the South(where 80% of all executions occur) and the Slouth West(where Latinos were lynched in the 1800s).
The death penalty is sought most often against defendents(especially of color) who are charged of killing White defendants Only Asian-Americans are tried under the death penalty more for intraracial homicides more than for killing Whites.
That’s not really uncommon. Officers often are involved in prior shootings or other excessive force incidents.
The L.A. Times did a study on officers with more than two shootings in the LAPD. They found that officers had a 1/10 probability of shooting one person. Those with one prior shooting had a 1/5 probability of shooting a second person. Those with two prior shootings had a 1/3 probability of shooting a third person. They interviewed several officers including one who lateraled to my city(and shot an unarmed man there) and several said, that it was like something changed after their first shooting that made it easier. One officer said that he should have never been in LE to begin with. I wish in his case, he had discovered that a lot of earlier.
My city’s agency has two officers involved in recent shootings, who had prior shootings. One two years before, just after joining the force. Another, five months after his first shooting. The department’s response is to say, hey these are very productive officers with a high number of arrests in “high crime” areas and put them to work in the same neighborhoods where the shootings occurred. I attended a meeting last night where one resident stood up and said, how offensive it was that they put the White officer who shot a Black man back in the same place one week after the shooting. The community applauded her words in front of the mayor, city council representative and the police officers. I hope they took that home with them.
My only call to jury duty, mythago, was for an indecent exposure case brought by a woman against a man. The defense lawyer’s first act was to remove all the women from the jury pool.
Make of that what you will. It depressed the hell out of me, and I hope never to be called for jury duty again. >:
Even when they show up, Blacks and Latinos have a hard time getting on juries. Prosecutors will kick them off, one after another and the judge will yawn and not call for a Wheeler motion, until the fifth one(usually the last one in the pool) but the DA will give a weak excuse and the judge will allow it.
Wheelers are top-secret in my state, done in chambers, as to not prejudice the jury pool.
Prosecutors are clever though. They’ll routinely kick off postal employees, saying that they are emotionally stressed(and throw in the “postal” reference) when they are Black(and I think about 30% of all postal service employees are) and social workers b/c they “root for the underdog” but they’ll all be Black women who are in social work.
When the United States Postal General discovered what was being done to postal workers and why, he raised a stink about it.
Occasionally, you’ll get the “rule of one” which means that only one Black person is allowed on the jury, no others.
Their exception is when they have a Latino or a Black defendent on trial on gang allegations. Then they want all the jurors of the opposite race they can find, b/c they believe that since Black gangs and Latino gangs don’t get along, that members of the opposite racial group of the juror will surely convict them b/c they don’t like members of that racial group either. If this sounds outrageous(and it should in the emotional sense, but I mean in the logical sense), a supervising DA in my county explained this strategy to me by phone, but explained it as he put Black jurors on trials with Hispanic gang members b/c he thought he would get convictions out of Black jurors simply because they didn’t like Hispanics b/c the Black gang members didn’t. I don’t think it dawned in how offensive and racist it is and if it did, I doubt he’d care. It’s a numbers game.
alsis, mine was for second degree murder with gang enhancements(hate crime charges b/c of sexual orientation were dismissed early on).
I would have never gotten on. There was easily dozens of reasons to disqualify me for both sides. I did have to go in chambers for a “for cause” challenge.
Yeah, radfem, what got me was that they kicked off all the women. Not just pushy feminist, political junkie, Lefty-Jew-civil-servant-partnered with-a-lawyer-and-looks-like-a-fat-hippie-me, but also the retired sixtyish grandmother. Also the blonde suburbanite with the vintage Tammy Wynette hairdo and the cowboy boots. Etc. Somehow, we were all tainted. Ho hum.
They did that in the theft case I was called for. The entire jury were young White men. The defendent was a D.A. investigator dressed up in really short skirts and stilleto heels. I tried not to be cynical and think what angle the defense attorney was working here.
I heard she got acquitted.
It’d be easier if they treated the members of “ethnically diverse” places like human beings. They might even be surprised by how much easier.
I was called for jury duty yesterday, a domestic violence case. I was never called up to be questioned, but the defense attorney did remove almost every woman from the jury. The numbers started out a little better than even – 7 women, I think, and 5 men. By the time they swore in the jury, there were only 3 women left.
Radfem, I remember the story of the Texas handbook. Have you found that on line? I remember that they didn’t want African Americans. I seem to remember that they also didn’t want men with beards, Jews, and some other groups, but I can’t remember….
I also heard that partt of the reason these White men were so angry was that this victim was supposedly “messing with White women” or something like that. What do people know about that angle of the story?
>How big is the white privilege that comes with not having to fear that cops will beat me within an inch of my life for no reason? How big is the white privilege of never having the cops send my community a message of hate like that?
This particular framing has always bothered me. It is privilege if you have something you are not entitled to. However do you want an equal chance of being beaten by cops for no reason? Do you think it would be progress if your chance of this increased? Obviously this is not a case of white privilege but opression of people of color. White privilege is where you gain because of opression of people of color. For example even though you are not currently making a living from your cartooning, you have a better chance of doing so someday because of your color.) But the fact the police mostly get away with beating people of color is not a benefit to you or to most white people; in fact it increases their chances of someday facing the same violence, because the mechanism that let police get away with it with people of color can also work for white victims.
This particular framing has always bothered me. It is privilege if you have something you are not entitled to. However do you want an equal chance of being beaten by cops for no reason? Do you think it would be progress if your chance of this increased?
The answer to question #1 is a resounding, “YES!” The answer to question #2 comes in two parts. The first part is, “Yes.” The second part is that you are asking the question in both a leading and a wrong manner. The question should be, “Do you think it would be progress if the chance of this for oppressed groups decreased?” And the answer to that is,” Yes.”
I also think that your second sentence is just playing with semantics. Here is the definition of privelege from dictionary.com:
1.
a. A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste.
b. Such an advantage, immunity, or right held as a prerogative of status or rank, and exercised to the exclusion or detriment of others.
You’ll notice that a component of privelege is immunity. Why does everybody who writes what you did in the second sentence quoted always omit that? Is it that you really don’t know?
Not as big as you apparently think. I personally know of a case where a young white kid was beaten to death by a couple of cops. Kid was a local neighborhood troublemaker who got pissed off and tossed a rock through a window. The cops picked him up and threw him in the back of a paddy wagon. Thenthey got in and shut the door. Witnesses said (in my presence) that the truck rocked back and forth for a few minutes. Then the cops got out. The wagon went to the station, and the kid was thrown in a cell, where he was found dead the next morning. The kid was white, the cops were white. The cops got suspended with pay.
The locals hit the street. I’m not just talking the local youths, I’m talking 40-year old men and women with families. They got tear gassed for their troubles; for some reason these fine folks thought that their status as local middle-class taxpayers would make a difference to the local cops. Sorry, mark “false” on your answer sheet.
Tell me that racism had something to do with this guy getting the crap beat out of him and I’ll say, “Yeah, you’re probably right.” Tell me that “white privilege” prevents the same thing from happening to you or me and I’m here to tell you I’ve seen different.
mythago:
Hear frick’in hear. People complain about the law, the legal system, the courts, the cops, lawyer, etc., etc. They talk about making sacrifices for this country, and patriotism. But when it comes time to actually sacrifice some time to participate, not only do people duck it, THEY BRAG ABOUT IT!
I better right now before I get started ….
In fairness to the jury, mythago, it sounds like they didn’t have a lot to work with.
Robert, my point was more that the only complaints about juries one hears more than “they’re stupid” is “thank god I got out of jury duty”.
No, I’m not claiming that lawyers are pure of heart in the way they pick jurors. But it’s damn hard for a good lawyer to pick a smart jury if smart people treat it as a nuisance best left for their inferiors.
I personally know of a case where a young white kid was beaten to death by a couple of cops.
Yeah. I had a friend who was beaten so badly by the NYC police that he missed the last 5 months of his senior year of highschool. He was white. Big fucking deal. That is anecdotal evidence and not valid in the big picture. The fact is that you are more likely to be beaten or killed by the police if you are not white.
(A quick search will lead you to http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/race/criminal_justice.htm#11 where it has this to say:
In its first report to the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, submitted in September 2000, the United States acknowledged dramatically disparate incarceration rates for minorities, noted the many studies indicating that members of minority groups may be disproportionately subject to adverse treatment in the criminal justice process, and acknowledged concerns that racial minorities are more likely to be victims of police brutality
I do agree that there is more than just the issue of race when we talk about police brutality. But just because there are components other than race does not mean that white privilege is not relevant to the matter of police brutality.
Mythago:
Robert, my point was more that the only complaints about juries one hears more than “they’re stupid” is “thank god I got out of jury duty”.
Fair enough. My bad for misinterpreting. (I keep trying to get on, but they won’t take me. Is it my “Fry Him In Hot Fat” t-shirt?)
Jake:
That is anecdotal evidence and not valid in the big picture.
Um, OK. So Amp’s post, which is also anecdotal evidence, is equally meaningless. Right?
Or does it magically become “data” when it fits into a worldview which you find congenial?
I personally suspect that the picture is very complicated. The Sunday School version of racial privilege touted by the left doesn’t adequately explain the observed facts. There’s a great big whacking chunk of racial privilege in there, but it isn’t the whole enchilada.
I dunno, Robert. Perhaps looking at studies that cover more than the incidents that we personally hear about would give us a more accurate picture of reality. That’s why I wrote about searching for studies & quoted one that I found in a very quick search.
And, yes, Amp’s post is anecdotal (or a single instance rather than a study of many examples). To say that racism is solely responsible for that incident & subsequent acquittal is somewhat simplistic and ignores other factors (which, of course, doesn’t mean that racism or white privilege didn’t play into it and which I wrote in my comment). How sharp of you to make the connection. Or perhaps you didn’t read through to my final paragraph & you missed my statement about there being components other than race that make up the problem of police brutality.
In fact, your last sentence is a statement of agreement with my last paragraph. So, other than displaying your dislike of me – what are you trying to accomplish with your comment? If you’re going to try to insult me, at least do it while disputing what I actually wrote instead of implying that I wrote the imaginary statements that you are disputing.
But none of your comment nullifies, or even disagrees with, anything that I wrote in comment # 23.
Wouldn’t it just be simpler & more considerate to others if we just wrote simple “fuck you” emails to each other rather than posting “fuck you” comments?
Wouldn’t it just be simpler & more considerate to others if we just wrote simple “fuck you” emails to each other rather than posting “fuck you” comments?
Yes, but so pedestrian. We can do so much better.
Amp, this case was on one of the night-time expose news shows a while ago. The women that brought them to the party and called 911 were interviewed as well as Jude.
Blah, with regards to jury duty. I’m scheduled to go in on May 5th, and really want to go, but not sure how I can with nursing Maddox. I’ve been wrestling with whether or not I want to put off duty or not (I can fill out a form to do that since I’m a nursing mother). This is going to sound stupid, and is a small derailment that I apologise for, but how exactly does jury duty work? Are you called in for a specific case? I thought it was a big pool of jurors that is there for any number of cases.
This is going to sound stupid, and is a small derailment that I apologise for, but how exactly does jury duty work?
Well, if this is for Multnomah County (and not Federal) you have to go in for one day. They seem to go back and forth on whether or not you call a number the day before to find out if you go in. In any case, you go to the court building downtown & sign in and then you sit in a big room with everybody else who bothered to show up and wait. Depending on your random number & how many cases they need to pick juries for, you may or may not get called to sit on a panel. If you don’t get called or you don’t get selected you go home at the end of the day with your patriotic duties fulfilled. If you are selected for a jury, you sit on the jury (usually that same day & most trials don’t go longer than a day). Also, depending on the timing, you may be asked if you can sit on a Grand Jury. But if you say you can’t do 2 weeks (I think), they won’t force you to do that.
Mostly it is one day of sitting in a fairly uncomfortable room.
Wouldn’t it just be simpler & more considerate to others if we just wrote simple “fuck you” emails to each other rather than posting “fuck you” comments?
Actually, I was considering that a more succinct way of expressing what I was thinking was to say “Try saying ‘fuck you’ to a cop the next time you get stopped for whatever reason and see whether or not the fact that your ass is white will keep it from getting beat.” The fact that I look 100% white will help keep me from getting beat. So will the fact that I’m 53, not 23, and that my personal situation is such that most people view me as a pillar of the community. But it won’t keep me from having a complete lack of fear that I could get beaten by a cop for no reason. Amp’s statement seemed like it was absolute, not relative, and I was offering evidence to the contrary.
Kim, Jake’s story is the same as mine in Cook County, Ill. You go in for a day, fill out a form, and sit and wait. If I were you, I’d ask to take a pass. Unless the facilities where you live are much better than here, it’s not a good place to have a nursing child all day. You probably wouldn’t make it though voir dire, anyway; you’re bound to be distracted at some point during a trial.
Nothing Has Changed Since The Rodney King Verdict
You really think so? Nothing has changed? You don’t think that this kind of thing is less likely to happen, or that it gets more attention from both the media and the authorities than it did before? I know that I’ve seen video of people getting beaten by cops on TV since then, with more uproar about it.
Ain’t technology wonderful. With digital camcorders, cops and criminals both can’t count on not seeing themselves in action on TV anymore.
That’s interesting. I know how White cops can be hostile to interracial relationships, particularly between Black men and White women so it wouldn’t surprise me at all, in the case of a hired stripper. In fact, that was my sense of what motivated the officers to do the beating in the first place.
Who said that White people never get beaten by police officers? I haven’t. White people do get beaten and shot, often if they are homeless, mentally ill or young teenagers. There was a case of a White dentist who was shot and killed by police allegedly because he tried to hit one with his car. I do think that race makes it more likely that members of certain racial groups(i.e. Black, Latino) will be disproportionately represented in terms of this. This appears to be particularly true for Black women and Latinas, in comparison to White women. I also stated that sexual orientation/identity(i.e. being gay, transgender or lesbian) puts White people at risk.
Then there’s the thing of anyone who will get beaten if they say “fuck you” to an officer. A lot of officers won’t do anything if you say that to them, b/c it goes with the job. Some will decide who gets “punished” based on race. Others won’t be able to control themselves enough to care.
Even the LAPD hasn’t improved much if at all since King was beaten in 1991. That’s with the Christopher Commission, the federal investigation and others finding that it is a poorly managed and supervised racist, sexist, violent department. Even though the LAPD has been under court mandated reforms for five years, it was unable to have its consent decree with the US. DOJ dissolved next month.
More attention does not always translate to results. That takes a lot of commitment from a lot of people over a long period of time. That’s rare that this happens, especially internally within LE agencies.
Yeah, judging by the body count in PDX, I’d have to say that little has changed for the better. Video cameras help, but we should all know by now that they are not a panacea. Too many folks are still determined to elevate a LE officer’s humanity above that of a POC, no matter what evidence you literally re-run before their eyes. Just as too many folks were willing to say “she deserved it” in that rape trial even when there was a videotape of male rapists callously assaulting an unconscious female who literally could not fight back.
The mind is a powerful thing, and it has the damndest way of re-inventing what is placed before the eye in order to keep the human’s traditional thought patterns intact.
White folks are brought up to believe that the cops are our friends. Movies and TV largely reinforce this view. Any wavering on that in my case comes from having a parent who was the archetypal “bad kid” in his Brooklyn youth. He was extremely bitter toward the police in his childhood and used to call the local suburban specimens in our hometown “gutless idiots,” in front of his kids. Actually that was one of the kinder things he said about the police. :p
Nowadays, I do meet White folks who say that they’d never call the Portland Police for anything. These folks are usually either lawyers working on police issues, or the lawyers’ support staff. Experience can trump pre-programming. Sometimes.
Definitely true.
I would never call my police department for anything, because I would never feel it was safe to do so. I might call if another person needed help, but not myself. My own mother told me never to call them, after reading the press converage on my blog. I have had a couple of officers from other agencies give me their cell phone numbers to call them if I ever do need assistance.
In the past, when I and my neighbors did call them, they would not show up even when people were shot at. The “improved” agency’s officers have made it clear to me that they won’t come if I call them. Which is fine, but then please don’t tail me in your car when I am walking down the street, or park several times on one street, waiting till I go by before driving further up the street and doing it again. And don’t sit for fifteen minutes in your car and watch me eat lunch at an outdoors restaurant(especially since our police department is understaffed in the patrol division and you are probably needed elsewhere).
Also, if you are going to do “hang up” calls, do them away from your police radio. Background noises do travel across phone lines. On the other hand, why not? Your sergeant will back you up and say he made them. This happened several years ago.
Whether it’s unidentified officers ranting on my blog about how they hate me or the police chief making derisive comments about me at a closed-off advisory board meeting simply for having concerns and questions about the shooting of an unarmed Black man on a street at least some of his own employees apparently believe is inhabited by “animals”, I’ve pretty much learned that it’s up to you to keep yourself safe, be watchful and to keep LE agency’s accountable. They are not going to do it on their own, no matter what they say. It’s up to the communities to push them.
The good ones in the mix do not usually have the push to drive reform forward by themselves so I do believe that it is important to do it for them, as well as the communities served by police officers. But it gets discouraging. Probably the most progressive long-time officer in our department left out of disgust late last year. I don’t consider that a good sign for the future. The good ones need to stay and move up, the bad ones need to go(hopefully not to another LE agency) and move out, in order for things to change.
But I say this, knowing that the police only hate me as much as they do, because I do what I do. If I didn’t, I’d be a White woman who they certainly would never harass, or assault. Black and Latino people especially do not have that luxury. Just their skin color is enough to experience all that and worse. If you can’t be in medical distress inside a car and be safe from police, where can you be safe?
Definitely. The prosecuter sees it, thinks “This guy protests too much…probably going to acquit no matter what the evidence” and strikes you.
No, I didn’t mean it as an absolute “whites are never, ever, in any situation, abused by cops” statement. Did you seriously think I believed that no white, ever, had been abused by cops?
I do think whites in general have far less reason to fear police violence and overreaction than blacks and latinos/as in general.
I read this:
as a statement by you that whites don’t have to fear that cops will not beat them within an inch of their life with no reason. I read it as an absolute statement, especially given “Frankly, I don’t have a measuring stick big enough.”
Now that I can agree with wholeheartedly.
There’s a correlation to income, too. People with higher income are less likely to be subjected to this than people with lower income. I speculate that some of that is likely because people with higher income live and work in areas where the cops are less likely to be out patrolling around and predisposed to seeing whoever they are looking at as potential criminals. Given that minorities are less likely to be in higher income brackets than whites, these two factors feed off each other.
It occurs to me that cops are pretty much the only people I know who are actively paid and otherwise rewarded to “look for trouble”. Small wonder that they often find it.
Ron;
I think this is actually pretty true. White have to fear it the same way they have to fear very unlikely occurrances (same way you’d fear a serial killer perhaps?), whereas people of different ethnicities seem to have to fear it on a much more normalized basis (apprehension out of simply getting pulled over that it might escalate). How that compares is that when I’ve been pulled over, I’ve never been worried that I’d get abused, but instead started trying to figure out how I could convince them not to give me a ticket – that right there is an example of white priviledge.
Here’s an example that happened in Portland a few years ago that I came across while researching what jury duty in Multnomah County is like:
Jake Squid wrote:
>Do you think it would be progress if the chance of this for oppressed groups decreased?
No I was deliberately phrasing the question to distinguish between white privilige and white supremacy (white privilege being one component of white supremacy). One possible change is that Portland could hire a bunch more cops and they could start beating the hell out of everyone the way they now beat the hell out of black people. Maybe we are going to see a reversal of the rightword trend in politics, but if we don’t that is not impossible. So the question is would you see that as improvement – white people having a chance to get treated as badly as black people without an decrease for black people. In other words, instead of the oppressed winning the fight to throw off their oppression it was extended to some of their former oppresser without diminishing the burden on those oppressed.
>You’ll notice that a component of privelege is immunity. Why does everybody who writes what you did in the second sentence quoted always omit that?
However if you look at the etmology you will see
“A privilege…etymologically “private law” or law relating to a specific individual…is an honour, or permissive activity granted by another person or even a government. A privilege is not a right and in some cases can be revoked
The key point here is that a privilege is not a right. I could add that words have connotations as well as denotation and that the idea of a privilege not referring something that is a fundamental right is pretty strong. Freedom of speech is not (by connotation) a privilege even if not everybody enjoys it.
My reason for emphasizing this is not just semantic; I think it reflects something important in how white supremacy is fought. If all forms of white supremacy are considered privilege the assertion is implied that on at least one dimension it is mostly rational. That is in a very narrow selfish amoral sense it is rational not to give up a privilege. Of course we are not just little self-seeking atoms, and there is more to us than self-interest. And there other dimensions such as class along which you can argue that such privileges are not rational on the part of whites even from a narrow selfish viewpoint. But it seems to me that term ‘privilege’ hides a really irrational component in white supremacy. And the being beaten by the cops is an example of this; there is no gain to a white person from beatingsof others by cops. That doesn’t mean that racist whites, (including whites who don’t think of themselves as racist) don’t in fact often support it and “give the cop the benefit of the doubt”. But whatever is going on it is something nasty and irrational. There are real privileges in white supremacy – increased access to scarce opportunties, immunities from a share of responsibilities and liabilities. But there is also that goes beyond that, something worse.
One possible change is that Portland could hire a bunch more cops and they could start beating the hell out of everyone the way they now beat the hell out of black people.
That’s always been my take on racial disparities in death penalty sentencing. We need to be executing lots more white people.
Well Kim, I’d have no reason to be smug. Let’s just say that I’m pretty familiar with the “what to do when you get pulled over” routine. And even though I’m about as white as it gets, I know what a cop’s gun looks like when it’s pointed at me. That’s because one cold day when I didn’t have gloves on I made the stupid mistake of 1) getting out of my car and keeping my hands in my pockets (I’ve got bad circulation in my hands), and 2) not taking my hands out of my pockets immediately the first time I was told to do so. One valuable lesson my Dad taught me was to always be polite and never, ever, give a cop any static for any reason.
He was entirely justified. I pulled my hands out of my pockets and apologized profusely and sincerely. Cops get shot. When a cop pulls someone over and they don’t do what the cop says, their alert level escalates rapidly. Little old black lady that she was (the cop has no idea if she’s a grandmother or worked for Loaves and Fishes), she could have a gun or have something concealed in her car. And she might well have gotten it out if she hadn’t been restrained. Unless, of course, you think her sex and her age should have granted her some kind of privilege. And when a cop does something as simple as ask you for your license and registration and you start asking questions and maybe copping an attitude instead of complying, the wheels in that cop’s head start turning pretty fast.
BTW, that license belongs to the state, not you, and a cop has every right to ask to see it without explaining why first.
All of which still leaves plenty of room for this cop to have used excessive force in this instance and for the jurors to be racist. But I’d have to hear the full story to judge. I’d also caution those smug jurors that think that such a thing could never happen to them to try getting stopped for, oh, say, having forgotten to renew their licence plates, and then refuse to produce a license and start giving the cop some lip when he or she pulls them over and see what happens.
Well, there you have it, Folks. Ron’s been pulled over, so that Black grandma could have been packing heat and there’s also no such thing as racial profiling.
I would urge every White person in the audience who’s with Ron to do an informal poll of all the White folks they know and find out how many of them will describe Ron’s experience as not just one experience, but a routine part of their life. Then poll all the Black folks you know. If you don’t know any Black folks, maybe you could kibbitz a few blogs.
Over on Pandagon right now, there’s a thread where Amanda asserts that the constant need of certain White folks to deny that racism still exists is itself, a form of racism. Having listened to the songs and dances on the issue on this blog over the last couple of years, I think that she may be right.
I was actually at the August anti-Bush demo a few years back when White protestors, including kids, were pepper-sprayed by cops. I glanced at a video the other day of a young, White female anti-fur protestor being pinned to the ground, straddled, and having her arm twisted –nearly broken– by a White male cop who probably outweighed her by at least 150 lbs. Yes, that shit makes my blood boil. No, I don’t think that exactly negates the fact that cops are racist. What it shows is that White folks have to go out of our way, generally, to be in situations that leave us on the receiving end of violent law enforcement. To be potentially on the receiving end as a WOC, I really wouldn’t have to do much of anything but go shopping at Safeway and/or drive a car after sundown.
One valuable lesson my Dad taught me was to always be polite and never, ever, give a cop any static for any reason.
Since you’re awfully white, I doubt your dad also felt the need to point out to you that sometimes the cops would give you static for no reason other than the color of your skin, that they’d assume from the start that you were probably a drug dealer or a gangbanger, and that you’d better be careful to have your insurance and license in order if you happened to be in a ‘nice’ neighborhood.
Oh, and that if the cops went apeshit on you, a bunch of white people would prissily talk about how you asked for it.
As someone who is also very white I can tell Ron he is wrong. I’ve gotten tickets while driving with white passengers, and while driving with black passengers. And I can tell you that the second has a whole different feel. And from what I’m told (and believe) there would be a whole different feel again in a car that consisted of nothing but black people. And that feel is part of the oppression tool Of course the worst experience is when that potential violence becomes real when you are actually beaten up. But having to worry about it all the time, having the threat of it is something else.
I’m going to go back to point on privilege here; defining the white supremacy ONLY as privilege is one of the things that helps white supremacists maintain denial.
A white person has a real chance of facing unreasonable violence by a cop. A white person has a much much lower chance of this than a black person. However, if the cops stopped being racist in this manner, and black people no longer faced this increase risk, whites would not be at an increased risk. That cops focus in this way on black people does not really decrease the risk for white people.
Thus if you focus on “privilege” a white person can say “I have no privileges here. Certainly you don’t want cops to start beating me up,” and ignore the racism . What you are dealing with here is white supremacy; white privilige is part of white supremacy, but there are other components.
So do I, twice. Both times because the officers were waving their guns around at “suspects” not really caring about the other people in the parking lots including children. Frankly, one of them looked terrified. They were plainclothed, never identified themselves. I called 9-11 on the first one as a crazy guy. I thought the second pair of them were men trying to rob me as they were plainclothed as well. They wanted a guy next to me in a group of pedestrians but weren’t specific when the gun was aimed at me.
They wouldn’t conduct themselves like this in “White” neighborhoods.
That is smart. LE is a dangerous profession(but not on the top 10 list) and traffic stops especially the moment the officer first approaches the driver are when they have to be most cautious. However, there is still responsibilities they are obligated to. That White guy who they relax around, turn their back on, allow to stand(and not sit on the curb like with Black and Latinos) might be packing heat too. Officers get shot and killed by people of all races. But many years according to FBI stats, they are in the most danger when they are behind the wheels of their cars and the gun that’s most likely to kill them is their own at their own hand. The suicide rate in LE is very high.
That said, being White, I’m guessing that’s where the lesson plan intended. Did your father ever tell you how to respond if the officer asked what I call the P&P question(are you on probation or parole?) or the keeping the hands on the wheel at all times. Or how to deal with a man with a gun who is afraid or in some cases, even terrified of you even if you are harmless? Does your father sit up at night and wait until you get home(most parents do but White parents don’t worry about their sons especially the tall and muscular ones getting pulled over by cops).
Most excessive force incidents stem from anger, not fear. Poor training, age, experience supervision and lack of access to less lethal options also contribute to excessive force, as well. Eliminate racism and you still have to address the other factors involved. The balance of racial representation in excessive force incidents might change, but there would still be a high number of total incidents.
If any hint of change is in the air, then comes the reactionary forces in law enforcement. Or the backlash, as you might call it.
The one thing police officers don’t like is to be criticized at all by people of any race, though with White people, race might still be a factor if they view you as a “n—-r lover” or a “race traitor”.
You do that and they will say or write things like this:
————————————————–
Dear[My RL name],
I have seen you on your daily strolls around the east side, about five times or so the last couple of weeks. Each time I see you, you are wearing the same purple sweatshirt and blue jeans. Then I think to myself, I wonder if she wears the same pair of skid marked granny panties everyday….. Then following that thought, I throw up a little bit in my mouth.
Instead of spending so much time trying to find negative things about cops, why don’t you try taking a shower and changing your clothes at least once a day!
B. Fife
Friday, April 28, 2006 6:25:30 PM
—————————————————–
This is one of the nicer comments I have received by a law enforcement officer from the agency in my city.
Here’s another:
You really don’t have anything better to
do? I pray that someday, in a
beautifully poetic example of justice,
you, or better yet, somoene you love is
the victim of a brutal violent crime.
The suspect will undoubtedly be one of
the worthless parolee animals that walk
the “U” near where you live. One of the
animals who you glorify in all of your
propaganda, who are constantly
“harrassed” by the horrible RPD.
How about we leave the East Side to who
should really be patrolling it… Animal
Control. Surely they’re better suited to
handle the “problems” than Police
Officers.
Keep up the wonderfully cleaver and
original hate-filled writing that you do
so well. You’re really doing a great job
improving your community.
Best Wishes,
Kevin, R.P.D.
————————————————–
The “East Side” is a community populated primarily by Black and Latino residents.
I was wearing different jeans, and on some occasions, a purple knit button-down sweater but this is their way of saying I’m being followed and watched when I am on their turf. The second post was an indirect threat for me to avoid that same turf all together.
They do all this under the watch of their department’s management which is apparently helpless, when it comes to addressing the issues of its culture b/c these individuals would not be so blatent and brazen otherwise. They also did this while the police department was under the oversight of the State Attorney General’s office.
That’s the harsh reality is that there is very little that can be done to address police cultures because the people who are supposed to dismantle them and replace them with something healthier can not do so.
There’s also the usual sexism and misogyny so ripe in the police culture tossed in these comments. I’m not surprised of the dozens of officers they hired last year, less than 3% of those were female.
But this is what the racist, sexist culture of police departments does when it is challenged. They fight back harder against their own when they complain of the hostile work environment they might face as Black or Latino male officers. Female officers of all colors would face worse if they challenged it. Black and Latino residents especially in the poorer communities face it every day because I hear about it.
There’s such a huge disconnect between our city’s poorest residents and the “community leadership” that there’s this sense that nothing is happening on top, but tension and turmoil lies underneath. I think this is going on in most cities in this country to some degree.
There are so many factors why policing in many cities has changed so little since the beating of Rodney King. And whatever change that has occurred anywhere has been slow and a long time in coming. But the inability to change the police culture is #1 on the list.
Well, there you have it, Folks. Ron’s been pulled over, so that Black grandma could have been packing heat
The woman certainly could have been packing heat for all the cop knew. This is the United States of America; anybody a cop stops could be packing heat.
and there’s also no such thing as racial profiling.
Are you proposing that this is my position? If so, perhaps you could quote the statement I made that supports that. Was it this one: “All of which still leaves plenty of room for this cop to have used excessive force in this instance and for the jurors to be racist.”
Gar Lipow said:
About what?
Was this statement offered to rebut a presumed opinion of mine? If so, what would that have been?
I’m also curious as to whether or not the race of the LEO makes a difference in the instance above, as well as the other ones you later described?
[Radfem describes a couple of cops who apparently need a lot of retraining on how to use a handgun]
Dang. Lucky no one got wounded or killed, including you. Although I’d offer that’s it’s one thing to be around a cop waving his gun around, and another to have a cop point his gun quite steadily and purposefully at you, which was my experience.
However, there is still responsibilities they are obligated to.
Agreed. In my case, I’d unwittingly given the cop a good reason to get his gun out. When I removed that reason, he put his gun away. Having the right to use deadly force to protect the public carries the responsibility to use that power in a specific and controlled fashion. It is human to make a mistake under such circumstances, but that can’t excuse it.
That said, being White, I’m guessing that’s where the lesson plan [ended]. Did your father ever tell you how to respond if the officer asked what I call the P&P question(are you on probation or parole?) or the keeping the hands on the wheel at all times.
Yes to the latter, no to the former. But then, since the answer would be “No”, he probably figured he didn’t need to. I should clarify one thing; I look about as white as it gets, but it turns out I do have some African ancestry. Not that anyone looking at me would think so.
Or how to deal with a man with a gun who is afraid or in some cases, even terrified of you even if you are harmless?
Nope.
Does your father sit up at night and wait until you get home(most parents do but White parents don’t worry about their sons especially the tall and muscular ones getting pulled over by cops).
Either Mom or Dad were usually awake when I came home. Either my wife or I were awake when my son or daughter got home. Hell, they’re both out of their teen years and I still worry about such things. And I do worry about my tall, muscular son getting pulled over. He’s gotten into mischief a couple of times; underage drinking (not while driving) and trespassing (but no vandalism or B&E), and I was quite worried for a while that another instance might start getting him on the radar of the local constabulary. Fortunately, a couple of court appearances finally convinced him that just because a friend proposes something stupid doesn’t mean you should go along with it.
Spare me, Rob. If that had been your Grandmother, no way would you be making justifications for that cop’s behavior. No damn way. You have absolutely no intention of putting yourself in that woman’s shoes, or her family’s shoes. Not even for a minute, here in an arena where it costs you all of nothing to do so. Instead you opt to rain down sympathy and benevolence on the cop and give no credence at all to folks with other skin colors and their experience of life in this country. You can do this and still consider your view reasonable, and I can’t even begin to convey how much that fills me with despair.
I’m sure when some cop says all he needs is the big “bang”, he’ll see the error of his ways.
Spare me, Rob. If that had been your Grandmother, no way would you be making justifications for that cop’s behavior.
Of course not. But I’m not that woman’s grandson. The issue isn’t about my feelings, or her grandson’s feelings, or anyone’s feelings.
No damn way. You have absolutely no intention of putting yourself in that woman’s shoes, or her family’s shoes. Not even for a minute, here in an arena where it costs you all of nothing to do so.
Oh, hell, no. I can see myself in high dudgeon at the Police station or hospital, screaming at the cops, hiring a lawyer, talking to the papers. But that has no bearing on whether or not the cop followed the law or used excessive force. Let’s not confuse the facts by invoking emotion.
Reminds me of when Dukakis (who I voted for as Governor) was running for President and someone asked him some question regarding rape laws and what his reaction would be if his wife had been raped. He fumbled along with the legal reasoning. He was excoriated, and rightfully so. What he should have said is “Why, I’d want to kill the bastard. But the law is here for justice, not personal retribution.” What I would feel and what the right way to apply the law is are two different things.
I can definitely see myself saying, “Shit, Gramma, next time show the cop your license, will ya? What were you thinking?”
Instead you opt to rain down sympathy and benevolence on the cop and give no credence at all to folks with other skin colors and their experience of life in this country.
Where did I do these two things?
RonF:
And with yet another invite to bash my head against the wall some more, I hereby decide to instead throw in the towel. >:
I can definitely see myself saying, “Shit, Gramma, next time show the cop your license, will ya? What were you thinking?”
Grandma was, after all, asking for it.
In my case, I’d unwittingly given the cop a good reason to get his gun out. When I removed that reason, he put his gun away.
Because you’re white, and so there is no other reason the cop might find you threatening, or have an excuse to abuse you. Is this really so hard to grasp?
Well, the cop isn’t subject to feeling, as we mere mortals are. The law and procedure are the magic charms that protect him from being subject to the baser instincts than plague us ununiformed mortals. Therefore the racism that tells him it’s okay to scare someone’s grandmother nearly to death is a higher mental state than some random civilian’s disgust with his behavior. >:
Some cops are looking for an excuse to abuse black people. Some cops are looking for an excuse to abuse poor people. Some cops are looking for an excuse to abuse anyone. It’s unwise for anyone – young or old, rich or poor, black or white – to not follow a cop’s directions when he’s got every right to give you those directions. First, because you should follow a legal directive by a cop; they’ve got a job to do. Secondly, because a cop with a bad attitude can ruin your whole day. You know that. I know that. My Dad knows that. Anyone old enough to be called “Gramma” should know that. The fact that the cop (I’ll posit for this argument) was not justified in doing what he subsequently did doesn’t mean that it’s not smart to keep your mouth shut and do what you’re initially asked under such circumstances. I’ve had at least two cops angry at me. I attribute not being cuffed and smacked at that point to that fact that I spoke respectfully and politely to the cops at that point and did what I was told when I was told to do it, not to my race.
Because you’re white, and so there is no other reason the cop might find you threatening, or have an excuse to abuse you. Is this really so hard to grasp?
It’s easy for me to grasp that kind of behavior by a racist cop. But, that presumes that the cop was racist and would have treated a black person differently. Maybe he just put his gun away because that was the way to meet the responsibility that you spoke of?
Do you think most cops are racist? Note that I’m not putting those words in your mouth, I’m asking your opinion. Although I must say that after going through your blog and seeing both your experiences and some of the stuff that you’ve been sent by people identifying themselves as cops, I can see where you might not exactly have a positive image of at least the cops in your city.
BTW, given our relative sizes, there was definitely a reason for the cop to still consider me a threat; I had about 6 inches in height and about 50 lbs in weight (I estimate) over him. Had I evinced an attitude, I can see where he might have kept that gun out. Had I continued to not comply, I can see where he’d have decided to restrain me.
It’s not just a matter of whether or not this cop or that cop is a racist, it’s a matter of whether or not the culture is racist.
If the culture itself is racist, then many of the cops including men and women of color(sometimes especially so) are operating under that system and act accordingly. Many LE agencies operate under cultures that are racist and sexist. Most of them are predominantly White and male even if the cities and towns they police are not. Often police departments are resistant first to the inclusion of men of color, then women of all races.
Officers come in who may or may not be individually racist, but have to work in a department where culturally, there is racism and sexism. Racist and sexist jokes, comments and slurs are still commonplace, whether in the lockerrooms, in the field or even in a roll call room. Women and men of color may find it difficult to advance in rank, or even integrate into the department’s ranks. They will be treated with severe ostracization and harassment if they complain of racism or sexism in a LE agency. This treatment may or may not be life threatening, based on whether or not it extends to receiving back up officers when they need them.
I had an officer on my site say that officers within the department who were hostile to the racist and sexist comments that he and other officers had written there, were “tattlers” just out to get promoted and should be ashamed of themselves. Of course they should! They broke the rule of the code of silence. Naughty boys and/or girls.
Well, that’s pretty clear. My experience with cops is mostly traffic stops, and when my new neighbors, just moved out from the city, took umbrage to me burning some branches in my back yard (which abuts to theirs) and called the cops and the fire department on me.
I can’t say that I have any specific insights to what goes on in a police locker room, either first-hand or from someone who works there. The fact that there would be racism in at least some such organizations doesn’t strike me as not credible. Not excusable, yes. Not credible, no. I would be interested to see what the extent of this problem is nationwide, and if there’s differences between urban/suburban/rural LEO’s. If there’s even a credible way to measure it.
I would regretfully say that I’d guess that there’s a likelihood that there’s at least a correlation between the racial balance and any inherent racism in a police department. I say that because I know that in an all-white group, those who are racist feel much more free to express racism. That may be true for any all-one-race group; it’s just that I obviously have no way to tell.
What does being “racist” mean? In some cases, cops may genuinely view Blacks (or Latinos, or Indians, etc…) as inferior to whites – something we all recognize as “racist.”
But what about a cop who doesn’t actually think blacks are inferior in any essential way, but reacts in a practical way to power structures? Maybe that cop feels like cracking skulls, and will do so if he has an excuse.
But if he pulls (say) my father over, odds are strong that cop won’t find an excuse – not even if my father acts arrogant or has to be told things several times. Because everything about my father screams “I am someone with serious money and privilege,” and any cop will recognize that within two seconds of talking to my father. And cops won’t shoot or hit someone like that unless there’s a genuinely life-threatening need.
Some impoverished person of color can be pulled over and act exactly the same way as my father, and maybe they’ll find themselves sitting on the curb, and maybe they’ll get hit, and maybe they’ll get arrested. Is the cop racist? I think so, but not in the sense of hating people of color. Just in the sense of acting according to the informal rules which say that whether or not it’s safe for cops to hit someone depends on that person’s race and class.
A friend of mine was arrested in New York years ago with a group of Latina protesters; she was the only one who spoke English fluently, the others all spoke Spanish primarily. The cops treated them all like shit, until finally my friend spoke up and said what the hell are you doing? And why haven’t we gotten a chance to call our lawyers? The moment she spoke – with the unmistakable accent of someone who has graduated from a high-level college – the way the cops treated her changed 100%. Not because they suddenly liked her better, but because they recognized that this was someone who might be able to talk to reporters and get listened to, or know how to sue the police department. It’s about power.
My experience with cops is mostly traffic stops
Indeed. Do you think that might affect your perspective somewhat?
Look, nobody is claiming it’s wise to smart off to a cop. But you’re going a step farther to actually blaming the victim rather than focusing on the police officer’s disproportionate reaction.
Do you think most cops are racist? Note that I’m not putting those words in your mouth, I’m asking your opinion.
Have you stopped believing that cute little puppies are fit only to be put through a wood chipper? Note that I’m not putting those words in your mouth, I’m asking your opinion. ;)
I think that the cops who enjoy abusing their power are, like most bullies, smart enough to pick their victims carefully. Of that subset of the police, some are racist. Some aren’t, but are quite aware that if they slapped around, say, Amp’s dad, they’d be facing an uproar and lawsuits out the wazoo; whereas if they harass prostitutes, or beat up a mouthy black guy who’s probably got a record anyway, nobody will care.
And privileged white people who’ve never heard anything worse than “Please keep your hands on the steering wheel, sir” will shake their heads at whatever the foolish victim could have done to provoke that nice police officer so.
Amp wrote:
(my emphasis added)
This is so, so right. I had a very similar exoperience the first time I went with my wife to 26 Federal Plaza in Manhattan to deal with some immigration issues. (We were in the process of applying for her green card at the time.) We were standing in what I came to think of as “the sorting room”…I forget the number…where people had to wait on line to explain to someone why they were there and then that person would tell them which room in the building to go to. There were two lines in the room, one quite long, on which my wife and I were standing, the other, much shorter. My wife asked one of the security guards what the purpose of the other line was and he responded by imporvising a small “rap,” complete with appropriate hand gestures and body movements (he was white), about how that was the “VIP line,” and it was clear he had not intention of actually answering my wife’s question. I put on my best teacher’s voice and asked quite loudly, so that everyone in the room turned to look at us, “Would you please answer my wife’s question?” and once he understood that I was not an immigrant, that I was a native-speaker of English and that I probably could get him into trouble if I wanted to, his whole manner changed. He became solicitous and helpful, though he never apologized.
That was a relatively harmless incident; my wife, and many of the ESL students I have taught over the years, have told me many other stories that do not end with someone like me being there to “save the day,” so to speak. On that same day, when my wife and I got to the window where we explained our purpose for being there, I was astonished to see the differences in the ways the immigration officer spoke me and my wife, even when we were standing right next to each other. To me, she was polite and respectful; to my wife, she was belligerent and dismissive. We did not complain only because we needed to make sure we got done what we needed to get done, and my wife was afraid…probably reasonably so…that, if we did complain, it was quite likely that they would make it more difficult for us to get it done.
I have no doubt that not one of the people we have over the years dealt with in immigration are openly racist (or xenophobic) in the sense that Amp means when he defines one form of racism as the genuinely held view that “Blacks (or Latinos, or Indians, etc…) [are] inferior to whites,” but they are all of them, at least in New York City at 26 Federal Plaza, part of an institution in which it seems like the degradation of foreigners is a normal part of the routine, and they behave accordingly. This is the way institutional racism works, and law enforcement is an institution just like any other.
Oops! That parenthetical statement about the rapping immigration security guard being white should have been deleted; it was a part of a tangential point I was going to make and then decided not to. Sorry.
“doesn’t strike me as not credible. Not excusable, yes. Not credible, no.”
Your negation blows my mind. I get your drift, though.
Regarding Radfem’s 67. You mention racism and sexism in police departments. We’ve all seen how institutional racism can affect the interactions with police, but what about police sexism? Does it have effects outside of the relative absense of women from the ranks?
[snort]
Pdf, ask that question of women who’ve had to report things like stalkings, rape and DV.
Yes, I think what alsis said is true. Women who report the crimes of rape, domestic violence and stalking have often encountered great difficulties because of sexism in police departments. It took years for rape to be taken seriously by police departments, for example, a problem that still exists today.
In Austin, Texas for example, there was a woman arrested for DUI who was in jail for two days, and she requested a rape kit exam. The police department refused to do one and I think she sued.
Police departments used to believe that domestic violence was a “private matter”(especially in their own households).
Police officers are disproportionately represented in domestic violence, and also have been involved in stalking cases as well(often in relation to the DV.). They access professional databases for personal reasons, which has happened in various police departments and their training makes them very good at engaging in behaviors to cover their tracks when it comes to DV. I did not know about LE and DV until I was at a conference and attended a DV round table. Over half the women there reported DV from LE officers.
The most well-known case involved Chief David Brame in Tacoma, Washington, who shot his wife,Crystal(who later died) and then himself in a parking lot in front of their kids. He had a history of both DV and sexual assault.
Less than 50% of all departments even has a policy to address DV in house. Often, cases are not investigated at all. Sometimes, the women who report it have to face not only their spouse or boyfriend, but also his friends in the department.
Sexual assault by LE officers onduty is unfortunately a serious problem. Either by force or coersion(by threatening arrest). The women most targeted are those with criminal records, because even if the LE officer gets charged, the defense lawyer can say, the women are liars, look at their records. Very rarely, do they get prosecuted and/or convicted.
Walkhill, New York Police Department faced a state issued consent decree because of a series of incidents where officers sexually propositioned female motorists. Another agency in upstate New York was investigated by the feds after several officers stopped women, then forced them to strip to their underwear and had them carry their shoes and clothes for blocks. I think some criminal prosecutions arose from that case.
Fact Sheet on Police DV
Wallkill’s investigation into sexual misconduct
Thanks for the in-depth reply, Radfem.