Over on Moderately Insane, Sailorman – who has two daughters, ages 2 and 4 – writes:
I’m in a small new England community. We have a lot of well-minded liberal folks here. And that certainly helps. For example, their nursery school doesn’t permit any commercial images: No Barbie lunchboxes; no Dora shirts; no TV at all.
We also do our best to encourage things on our own. We don’t EVER show them broadcast TV–not at all–though we do let them watch winnie the pooh movies on occasion. We teach them to like bugs and mud.
But there are still plenty of confusing issues….
What do you do when your daughter’s good friend wants her to come over and watch TV?
What do I do about the fact the they always want to wear pretty dresses, not overalls? That they want to wear tutus? I *KNOW* they’re getting gender-socialized at school, but I don’t want to add to it if I can help things.
What do I do about the fact that their mom is, for the moment, a SAHM doing the vast majority of childcare? She’ll be back at work in a year or two, but (we’ve got a new infant and I often work 12 hour days) doesn’t want to go back until then.
Sailorman is particularly eager to hear specific advice, rather than general theory.
As far as the clothing issue goes, my advice is not to sweat it. There’s a perfectly reasonable, nonsexist reason Sailorman’s daughters might like pretty dresses: Pretty dresses are cool. Hell, I liked wearing dresses when I was a small boy (much to my grandfather’s horror, when he discovered me playing dress-up in my granny’s clothes!).
Raising girls to abhor the feminine isn’t really feminist. What’s feminist is allowing girls (and boys) to express their own tastes without regard to if their tastes are stereotypically girlish or boyish.
(Of course, as Sailorman points out, it’s not like his girls live in a vacuum; there’s no way, really, of knowing how much dress-preference is the girls expressing their individual tastes, and how much is gender conformity. I don’t know what the solution is to this, but I’m sure that feeling bad because many girls like dresses isn’t it.)
Anyhow, there’s more I could say, but I’d rather throw it to comments for now. Even if not all “Alas” readers are parents, probably at least half have been daughters at some point in your lives. What’s your advice?
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Hi, I’m a first-time commenter, longtime reader. I don’t have kids — I’m speaking from my experience as a daughter of feminist parents.
“Don’t sweat it” pretty much sums up my thoughts on this issue. If little girls (or boys) want to wear frilly dresses, they should do so and enjoy it. Parents’ feminist attitudes (or antifeminist attitudes, as the case may be) will come through in the longrun. Kids, especially as they get older, are more than capable of picking up on the subtler elements of the dynamics of their families. If mom is at home because, regardless of gender, that’s what makes sense for the family, kids will sense that; or, if mom is at home because the family thinks that it’s a mother’s specific role to stay home with her children, kids will understand that that’s the case.
Regarding things like watching TV at a friends’ house, again, I think that parents’ ideas will be pretty obvious to children as they get older. There’s a big difference between the experience of a kid whose parents supply something within her home (say, broadcast television) and a kids whose parents say, “This isn’t something we have at our house, but we’re not going to forbid you from seeing it at your friends’ houses.”
Let your children wear what they enjoy. My son and his friends really enjoyed dressing up in pantyhose (often over their jeans). My daughter’s favorite was the “Veterinarian kit” I made up. She’s a nurse. He wants to be a psychologist.
Neither of my children would wear coats (still don’t) — and we do get snow and freezing temps here. Both kids walked to school and have had the experience of frozen hair since they took morning showers. This gave me far more angst than the choice of girly/not girly clothing ever did.
As someone who grew up thinking that it was feminist to not wear pink, etc., I’d say to not sweat the frilly dresses. My own 3yo feminista calls anything (person or doll) in apretty dress a princess. One of her bfs is a princess-aholic, so that’s where I bet she’s getting it. First it’s princesses, then it’s drugs right? ;) But my lil one always wants to wear her white patent shoes out to play on her bike or scooter. The only reason I say no is that I think she’ll be more supported in gym shoes than her “work shoes.”
As for the TV thing…dunno what to say. As much as I try to limit her TV watching, cartoons are our saving grace on weekend mornings when she wakes up way before momma & daddy want to get up. That and she loves to watch ballgames with us. Gotta love that! But maybe a talk with the friend’s mom and figure out “watching TV” entails. Maybe it’s just movies like you do? Heck, my lil one thinks it’s watching TV when we put the TV on the music channels and it’s just a black screen.
Good luck!
I *KNOW* they’re getting gender-socialized at school,..
What does that mean exactly? Sailorman, I’ll see your two and raise you two (daughters that is).
Some ideas..
Encourage them to approve of feminine boys and to be loud and take a lot of place.
Be certain to do everything in the household yourself every now and then so stuff doesn’t get so labeled into thing mothers do and things fathers do – maybe encourage your wife to swap duties as often as possible.
Read them fairy tales where you swap the genders of all the characters.
Teach them how to do things like take care of the car or garden and handle technical gadgets.
Invite a group of kids home and be certain to include boys as well as girls and then help to include all in both “girly” and “boyish” games.
Check yourself and your reactions as often as possible and ask yourself if you would feel and act the same way if they were boys.
Oh – and discuss the general gendered culture we live in. Talk about their experiences and show them other perspectives on what they see on TV or hear at kindergarten or school.
Don’t worry – any sane girl will be a feminist given the option.
I’ll probably think of more specific advice later on, but here’s my first thought, good for raising either gender, but probably particularly important with girls: listen to them and take them seriously. With a bit of luck and not too much contrary socialization from school, they’ll follow your example and take themselves seriously too.
So good to know people are thinking about these issues and acting on them!
My two daughters are 16 and 10. To me “feminism” is about choice more than about what you choose. I lean toward the “don’t sweat it camp,” but also know that it is important to be deliberate when teachable moments arise.
Your words and actions will filter into the kids – like it or not! Self-reflection and attention to all the daily stuff we take for granted is the best advice I can give. What do you say to thers about your kids, whether they are w/in earshot or not? What do you say about other kids? How do you treat others and what are your expectations of them? What do you talk about when you come home from work?
This may sound really odd, but white-out was the key to a huge part of my feminist upbringing.
See, my parents noticed that the overwhelming majority of childrens books were extremely sexist. Even the awesome books. Male was the default gender, and girls were only introduced when a book was about “girl stuff,” or when a male character needed a love object. Books like Cat In The Hat always used the male pronoun for “non-gendered” characters. Books like “Alphabears” included only half a dozen females out of an alphabet of 25.
So my parents changed the pronouns.
Just little nips of white-out, and “he” became “she,” while “she” became “he.” The Cat In The Hat was female to me, while Julie Sings became Jules. The stories were the same, but my parents swapped genders around until half the characters in my books were male and half were female and few were the gender they’d started with.
I know it may sound really trivial but it made a huge difference for me. To this day, I am largely tone-deaf to a lot of the gender-role BS that goes on around me. I think it allows me be more of the person I want to be, without worrying so much about being “womanish” or “manish.”
What they said–you don’t want to send the message that ‘girly’ = bad. The trick is that you don’t want to overpraise; that is, you don’t want to go on and on about how cute their tutus are, but say “That’s nice, dear” if they go through a phase where they dress up like pirates.
my parents definitely did the thing where they praised me for looking girly all the way up to when I graduated from college, and as a not particularly girly woman, it made me totally uncomfortable.
like everyone else, I think it’s important to make sure you don’t act like being girly is either bad or essential.
also: take a look at yourself and your relationship with your wife, and make sure you’re supporting her ambitions (which could be exactly what you’re doing!) I feel like being a good role model that way is important.
you probably still buy a lot of your daughters’ clothes and toys without input from them: try to buy non-gendered, feminine, and masculine clothes for them and let them wear what they prefer.
play hard with them. I mean, you don’t want to hurt them, but a lot more girls could enjoy/benefit from roughhousing than get it. though I’m not a parent, and you may be trying to teach more peaceful attitudes than I have.
don’t use gendered things as rewards (if you stop sucking your thumb we’ll give you a princess wand).
have “feminine” guys and “masculine” women as role models. make friends with some. failing that, find public figures that work.
I don’t know if all this works, because I’m not a parent. good luck!
Pretty dresses? Well, don’t read too much into the fact that they want to wear dresses. As Amp said, “Pretty dresses are cool.” Figuratively, and literally—they’re physically comfortable articles of clothing, provided it isn’t freezing outside. And they generally come in bright colors and patterns for kids; a lot more visually interesting than jeans. Furthermore, the fabric moves with you—when you jump in the air, the fabric goes up. When you spin around, the fabric spins and flounces. Kids get a kick out of that (boys do too, if they ever get the opportunity to wear skirts or dresses). Kids do gather the larger societal messages about gender, but those messages aren’t engrained or entrenched yet—not at your daughters’ ages. Let them enjoy the new experiences of dresses, before they have to deal with the baggage that comes with gendered clothing.
Provide a variety of toys for them—“girly”, “boy-ey” and “neutral”. I really enjoyed a book called “Magic Trees of the Mind” that discussed childhood neural development and learning (no, I’m not a yuppie overgrooming her kid; my daughter was a preemie with neurological damage and I was seeking strategies to help reverse/correct, and/or make the most of what she has); in the back section there were age-appropriate suggestions for toys—from infant to teenagers. Go to the library, check it out, and take some of the suggestions. Kids automatically love learning as long as it’s fun—play is their work. The lists in the book are gendered, but don’t pay any attention to that (as indeed the authors stress you not to—the lists are gendered because they were garnered from parental opinions on the toys their children loved and learned from the most).
Make sure they get time in the great outdoors—even if it’s just the back yard or porch. Let them get their hands dirty gardening, even if you only have room for potted plants. It’s good that you let ’em handle bugs and worms; read books together about how different bugs and worms help things grow! (Do you have a deck or porch? Send ’em under there to find slugs!)
Give them lots of opportunity to use their large muscle groups. Running, jumping, hula-hooping, ball-playing, dancing, etc. Let them lift heavy things (they won’t throw their backs out). Cheer them on. Let ’em get well acquainted with the exhilaration and good feelings (endorphins!) that come from actively using one’s body. Even if they stifle that experience during their teens or young adulthood, pursuing some fantasy about “real womanhood” or trying to “fit in”—they’ll never forget it. They’ll always go back to that; always return to the pure joy of “kid” activities. Providing them with positive experiences with their bodies will inoculate against some of the toxic messages they’ll be getting later on about female bodies. Girls who play sports have higher self-esteem. Keep that in mind.
TV? Well, I think that would be a great opportunity to demonstrate that different people live different ways. You don’t want to make TV the forbidden fruit that “must” taste good. If your girls haven’t been exposed to TV viewing, they may not really “get” it—they might find it completely boring, and pester their friend to do something more fun, like build with blocks, or play catch.
Oh, and let ’em practice “cooking”. Teach ’em how much fun preparing food is. They’re too young for the stove, but they can build sandwiches or make animals and bugs out of different shaped veggies. That’ll help inoculate against the fast-food advertising they’re sure to get one way or another. If they get a kick out of making food they like, it’ll be hard for ’em to really enjoy mass-marketed pablum.
Sounds like you’re doing a good job already, FWIW. I had to wince when you said “no Dora” though—my daughter had a helluva lot of Dora stuff, mostly because mama didn’t get the benefit of having positive characters who resembled her (wicked witches don’t count). I wanted my girl to see dark-haired, dark-eyed girls as being something other than wicked witches or mean girls. That may not be applicable to your situation, but I thought I’d throw that out there, just in case.
Encourage them to approve of feminine boys…. What about masculine girls? Is there a male counterpart to “tomboy”?
… and to be loud and take a lot of place. That’s one thing I don’t need to encourage, if anything, I try to emphasis the opposite…”lower the drama”.
Be certain to do everything in the household yourself every now and then so stuff doesn’t get so labeled into thing mothers do and things fathers do
Hmmmm… I wash dishes, cook (rather well I might add), laundry, vacuum, give baths, help with homework, brush out tangled hair (what a joy on school mornings), and play with my girls.
– maybe encourage your wife to swap duties as often as possible.
Does that mean the missus will mow the lawn and take out the garbage? Maybe you’re on to something here.
Teach them how to do things like take care of the car….
maybe after I learn how
or garden
You’re kidding right? I’m lucky if I can get them to pull a weed or two.
and handle technical gadgets.
This is the game boy generation. Why isn’t it called a gamegirl? Where’s a feminist when you need one?
Read them fairy tales where you swap the genders of all the characters.
Actually my youngest likes Calvin and Hobbs. Besides I rather they read history than fantasy…well maybe some fantasy…let’s not curb the imaginati0n.
Invite a group of kids home and be certain to include boys as well as girls and then help to include all in both “girly” and “boyish” games.
Why not just let them play? I’m sure they’ll figure it out.
Check yourself and your reactions as often as possible and ask yourself if you would feel and act the same way if they were boys.
If I had a boy, at least I wouldn’t be out numbered. I have someone to relate to as a guy. Waitamint… I forgot about the cat…but he’s neutered…uh oh.. so am……..
Speaking of encouraging girls, this was on msn.com
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5836780?FSO1&ATT=HCP>1=8485
I usually just lurk, but this subject is right up my alley:
My husband and I are both feminists, and have a 3 and a half year old. She is princess-obsessed. And she loves to play with Barbie dolls. So she and I play a lot of “subversive feminist princess Barbie”: wherein we pretend our Barbie dolls are going to karate class, doing science experiments, protesting political injustices, living with the other princesses in a feminist commune…
And as for TV, when I think of all the crap that I watched… -yet I still am an over-educated, subversive, socialist feminist. So she can watch just about anything within reason. But I am quite strident about the least exposure possible to commercials. I find commercials personally unbearable, and I don’t want my child being contaminated by them. So I really prefer videotapes for that reason. Of course, the older she gets, the less I will be able to shield her from commercials. So we intend to have a lot of conversations about them, and to pick apart their propaganda.
Really, I think that a child’s TV viewing and princess obsession, with or without subversive snark from Mommy and Daddy, is less important to her future feminist leanings than is the fact that she sees gender-bending, gender role reversal, and non-heteronormativity in real life on a regular basis. Mommy goes to work while Daddy stays home and takes care of her, Uncle David is married to Uncle Sean, Grandpa cries when he is sad, etc.
Hope this helps!
What they said.
My oldest daughter has always been really “girly”, even before going to school. I think it’s just part of her personality to love to decorate herself. But, even in her prettiest dress with bows and ribbons everywhere, it never stopped her from clamering on the boulders in my backyard and jumping off into the mud below. As long as her tastes don’t create artificial boundaries for her (fear of getting dirty, etc.), who cares.
As for TV, we didn’t have one until my oldest was six. Even now, it’s primarily for weekend viewing only (but things are pretty lax here in the summer). But as a kid I watched a ton. I loved violent, gory films. But I remember one day my dad coming in, watched part of a movie with me, then tears came to his eyes, and he said, “I don’t know how you can watch this” as he left the room again. That affected me more than any restrictions he might have put on my viewing habits. No hypocrasy (you can’t watch it, but I can because I’m older crap), just a real, honest emotional response. He was in the war and saw people die in real life. Why would anyone want to watch it portrayed on TV? It didn’t entirely stop me from watching horror films, but it did affect my attitude towards it all.
Thanks all for the replies so far. It’s fascinating to read them.
I know I couldn’t be the only one in this position–maybe I should start a support group :)
But it’s really insidious. Now that I’ve become aware of it, there seems to be an INSANE amount of societal “push” towards the “normal” feminINE (not feminIST) mannerism. You know how it goes: Everyone will tell them how “pretty” they look, but nobody will comment on how “strong” they look. Everyone will comment on their wonderful flowery dress, but nobody will tell them they look great in Carhartt overalls (didja know they made those in kids’ sizes?)
It is really quite something. Fortunately we’ve got some good role models in my area…. but methinks it’s be an interesting couple of decades.
Just a note – Lee in #8 is not me. I have a 9yo daughter and a 6yo son. Dresses have not been and continue not to be an issue – they can wear them, or not, as they please. Each owns both Barbie dolls and Rescue Hero action figures, which are bit players to the stuffed animals in complex story lines. We try to give gender-neutral toys as much as possible, and all outerwear is gender-neutral (so it can be handed down). Both kids get gender-matched presents from friends and family members, but we make it a strict rule that all toys must be shared. My son likes to play with Barbies, but as far as I can tell, they do whatever he needs extra action figures to do, as there are more Barbies in the house than Rescue Heroes. Before the kids could read, we would switch up the names and genders of the characters as much as possible, and after they could read, we tried to make sure there were as many books with male lead characters as ones with female lead characters (which was actually difficult and gets more so the older they get).
I did decide early on to focus most of my energy on TV and toys, though. They were both in daycare and in preschool, and I couldn’t do much to control what they saw on TV in those environments, but I made very sure (and still do) that they only get 1 hour of combined screen time for TV, computer, and video games a day, and that TV can be either pre-approved programming on PBS or DVDs or videos. (There is an exemption for bona fide schoolwork.) If they want to watch something that is not pre-approved, then they have to watch it with me in the room making play-by-play commentary. If they watch a movie or TV in after care at camp, at a friend’s house, or at school, we talk about the plot and what the characters did, and whether it made any real-world sense or not. (This is evolving into more nuanced discussions as they get older, which is actually pretty cool. When my daughter told me that she thought Calvin (from “Calvin and Hobbes”) wasn’t a good friend because he’s always making nasty comments about girls, and that wasn’t right because girls can do anything they want to, I almost cheered.) In general, I don’t ban toys, but the ones I don’t approve of quietly disappear at some point after we talk to the kids about why the toy is not appropriate. I think the Bratz dolls are probably the only toys that don’t even get out of the package in our house.
As a historical note, I have two cousins of about the same age (now both grown women with kids) – one preferred frilly dresses, and the other only wore jeans. The one who loved frilly dresses is an EMT and an avid rockclimber, and the one who always wore jeans is a fashionista and has a small home business as a personal grooming consultant (or whatever it is you call the people who help you figure out how to dress in a way that is flattering to you). So I wouldn’t worry about the dresses too much.
Personally I don’t think in terms of “feminist” in raising my daughters. As to the whole “pretty” issue. I think part of that is gender, not necessarily outside “gender stereotyping or socialization”. My girls like clothes, regardless of whether or not they’re girly or tomboyish. Me, I could care less. Like many a married man, my wife buys me clothes, unless its a sports related items, like the shirt I recently bought celebrating the Azzurri fouth World Cup Win. Sorry.. had to get that in there. Getting back to the clothes with the daughters, why do they fight over clothes? “She took my shirt”, and the other responds with, “well she took my pants yesterday”, and on it goes from there. In that regard, I don’t look at them “feministicly”, but shake my head, and mutter “Madone!” Has anyone out in Alas land experienced this, whether with their own daughters, or with a sister(s) growing up?
Sailorman-
Everyone will tell them how “pretty” they look, but nobody will comment on how “strong” they look.
Ah, I remember that. I always wanted to be strong. As a child I was obsessed with She-Ra and was always flexing my “gun show” trying to get my parents to tell me I looked like a warrior princess. I’ll admit, I had attention issues. ;) At least you and their mom can encourage their strength, and always reinforce that.
I think one of my favorite things to do as a child was dress-up. In the same way that I loved Barbie because she could be any characters, any time and place; I liked the flexibility of different roles (it didn’t hurt that my mom made me cardboard armor and gauntlets…) Whether I feel like being hyperfeminine or not; I never take it to be the “real” me- it’s all dress up, put-on, because the real me is something that can’t be expressed by a clothing change or a dash of lipstick. It’s a mood or a facet of my real personality, which encompasses everything I want to be and everything I want to do. And yeah, it may sound silly, but I think that’s partly due to playing simple ol’ dress-up.
It’s nice to hear that other people like Barbie, and find creative ways to spin her message ! I had all female barbies until I was at least eleven. My Barbies had sisters and mothers and daughters and best friends, but no boyfriends. They were alright with that, and so was I.
Teach them what choice is; what it feels like, how it feels to make one’s own. Support them in making independent, autonomous decisions. Give them a fuller range of options than conventional society thinks is appropriate for girls, and then support them even if they choose that which still smacks of patriarchal femininity. The hardest part of female socialization comes during the middle-school years, IMO. If they have the tools to weed through bull-shit by that age, you’ve done them well.
Q Grrl Writes:
August 15th, 2006 at 8:13 am
…..and then support them even if they choose that which still smacks of patriarchal femininity….
Is there sort of a consensus on this? I was having this exact argument with my best friend and his new girlfriend only two days ago.
The subject was “can my daughter be a cheerleader?”
Personally, I lean towards a plain old “no.” Band, sports, dance, yes. Theater, yes. Most particular ASPECTS of the cheer squad–be it thepublic involvement, the physical workout, the female camraderie–I have no problem with. But the “short skirted high school girls who are only there to support the football team”… yuck. It doesn’t help that I hate football as well.
This won’t happen for at least 10 years. And I seriously doubt any daughter of mine will want to be a cheerleader by that age. But it’s an interesting question.
Q, are you saying it’s better to grant her the autonomy to choose, even if I think she’s making a mistake? Obviously kids need mental freedom and parent’s can’t decide everything–but where does one draw the line? Cheerleading seems (to me) in the same category as beauty pageants, swimsuit modeling, etc–and I don’t want my daighters doing those things.
Sailorman, “cheerleader” is an important social role. Not everyone can be on the team; being the person saying “go, Frances!” is also fun and valid. What’s objectionable is when the support role is limited to one gender, and the active role is limited to another. Since cheering is open to boys and girls, and the social stigma against boy cheerleaders is diminishing or disappearing (heck, POTUS was one) – no worries. It seems to me that “I don’t want my daughters doing those things” is the problematic position, whether you’re trying to stop them from being firefighters or trying to stop them from being beauty queens. Maybe they WANT to be beauty queens.
A “good” feminism, in my book, is one which supports females in their healthy desires and choices. Being a model, being beautiful, being in the rah-rah contingent for a sport that one doesn’t have the physique to play – these are all healthy things, within reason, when being a jock, being smart, being on the team are also valorized and supported. I shudder to agree with Q Grrl – give your kids access to healthy values and then support whatever they choose which isn’t obviously pathological.
Shorter me: Don’t drive the kid to cracktown for her daily rock, but do let her cheer if that’s what she wants to do.
Yes, because misogyny and sexist beliefs do not originate in a little girl. They come from outside of her and they come regardless of the choices she makes. Arming her with a knowledge that choices are hers to make, for her own self interests (hopefull with compassion thrown in!), is a priceless tool.
This is entirely anecdotal to my girlhood, but it highlights why I became feminist:
I was one of the biggest tomboys I’ve ever known. I’ve played more football in my life than most men/boys. I played exclusively with boys after the age of five, and I was highly sought out for sports teams because I was big, strong, fearless, and an excellent athlete. My posse, if you will, tended to be about 6-8 boys all a year or two younger than me. For years we were tight; we were the dominant football team in our neighborhood and we were the best BMX riders for miles around (this was ’77 – ’79 before trick riding caught on). At 12 years of age, I was 5’5″ and 120lbs. I was picked for football teams because it took at least 2 boys to tackle me. When my posse and I got into trouble, it was me who was pushed to the front of the group because I was the strongest and I was the best fist fighter in the group – which unfortunately many of them knew about first hand. I was dominate, brave, fun, and a risk taker.
Then the boys hit puberty. I had already gone through puberty. I had already changed, and it hadn’t phased them. But the summer between the end of elementary school and the beginning of intermediate school, these boys, one by one, and in gangs, worked actively to demonize me. Instead of being strong, I was now “fat”. Instead of being brave and dominant, I now looked like a “penis”. Instead of them innocently asking me why I didn’t join them in their circle pissing/bonding, they called me “man-girl”.
Even at 12 and 13 I knew it was entirely arbitrary and that these boys were just doing that because they thought they had to. In order for me to be an acceptable companion to them, I now had to be submissive, pretty, quiet, and certainly I was not to hog the spotlight. And these were my best friends.
I went on to letter five times in high school: three in track and two in soccer. But it was never with the freedom and spirit of my perpubescent sport with boys. I always doubted my accomplishments because they were always circumscribed by a falsely imposed sense of femininity. My body was the same, only faster and stronger. But now I was on “girls” teams, playing “girls” sports. The message was not lost on me.
So yeah, I avoided all those patriarchal girl chocies towards uber femininity, if that’s how you want it. I did all the independent, intelligent, brave things.
But there was nothing in the world I could do to avoid the socialization of the boys around men.
Sailorman, regarding cheerleading, it seems at their age your daughters are just looking for fun, spirited female role models. You could always take them to a roller-derby where the cheerleaders are men!
:p
I think it’s worth noting again (as others have already) how much kids pick up subliminally (so to speak), and I’d love to offer yet another vote for “let them choose”.
I was an aggressive tomboy raised by parents who were not particularly feminist (very traditional sorts of WASPy people really — SAHM, working father, higher income bracket, suburban yadda yadda), but who were very supportive of my personal choices most of the time. As far back as I can remember, I loathed things perceived as girly (it’s only now, in my mid-30s, that I willingly choose to wear shades of anything pink and don’t feel a deep revulsion when doing so). I “knew” early on, given the culture around me, that “girly” = “weak”, and above all, I was a kid with a pretty raging will to power. ;)
This loathing for the girly, however, did not extend necessarily to despising everything coded as feminine — anything that represented feminine power in some way was interesting to me. Queens and queenliness — I loved playclothes in the (imagined) form of robes, capes, crowns, and other elaborate “power”-wear. I identified more with Maleficent (in Disney’s ‘Sleeping Beauty’) than with Rose (and wanted to steal Prince Philip’s horse. Of course, for about a week I also wanted to be the devil-figure in Fantasia’s representation of “Night on Bald Mountain”…yeah. I went through a bat-winged-power phase, apparently). I don’t pretend that, as a child, I had a very nuanced understanding of power or of femininity — I can only report from here, distant adulthood, that as a child these were the things that caught my imagination — powerful sorceresses in black = good, wimpy, screamy girly girls in pink with stupid ribbons and lacy things = bad, and you can’t ride a horse comfortably in that stupid girly drag anyway (I thought sidesaddle was impractical)! Yeah, that was me. And yes, I also wanted to be Darth Vader when I grew up. I desperately wanted to be able to choke my enemies with the power of the Force while speaking in the menacing voice of James Earl Jones. Sheesh. Now that I think about it, I was a pretty scary little kid — Calvin and I had a lot in common! (No, I don’t want to do that anymore — well, sometimes at very LONG meetings…but not really.)
But the crowning gender-marked thingummy that I owned, as a very young child, was my own football helmet. I wanted that so badly, and my parents (who only very seldom enforced girliness — my mother must have danced a happy dance every time I willingly chose to wear a dress, but she didn’t force the point often, although I think she desperately wanted to) were more than happy to get me my own helmet for Christmas. Football bores me now, but when I was 4 or 5, I wanted to play for the Bears, and the parents were more than happy to indulge me. I figured I’d make a pretty good linebacker.
I think that my becoming a feminist later in life is connected to all of these experiences, but especially to my slowly growing awareness over the years of the way in which gender and power are connected in the culture in which I live. That growing awareness was possible because my parents let me choose, yes, but also because they would talk to me and listen to me on the subject of why I liked things. I had to make the case for what I wanted, especially as I got older, and it made me a lot more aware of what I was doing and why I was doing it.
So, back to practical, concrete advice: Listen to the kids. Let them tell you what they like and dislike, and don’t try to force them one way or the other into some kind of oppressive conformity. Don’t stop there, though — when they tell you what they like, ask them why they like it. That conversation — the one that starts with “why?” — is the most important thing.
On cheerleading – as with all sports, you should look very hard at exactly what’s involved. Far from being rah-rah, a lot of cheerleading squads are expected to do athletic, dangerous maneuvers, and they aren’t wearing padding like the actual sports players.
/lawyer
I’m fairly young, and still live at home. The way that I’m coming to this subject is kind of sideways, ‘stuff that I wish my parents had taught me’, just FYI.
Don’t make money/credit/finances a taboo subject. From a ‘this is the world we live in’ POV, its stupid and cripples you culturally (and financially!). Open bank accounts; make a point to save some of birthday/Christmas money… I see so many tweeny aged kids who don’t seem to understand that don’t understand how credit works or why they can’t always have that expensive whatever (and I work in a grocery store, we don’t have a whole lot of expensive whatevers, you know?)
As a feminist issue, they’ve done some studies (I can’t remember them now, of course) that women, on average are more hesitant to ask for a raise or know what they should be making for their expertise/knowledge/skill set compared to guys. While on one hand, it’s just another way to blame the wage gap on women, on the other hand…
Also? Basic home repair stuff. While I love my father and my grandfather, it’s always them that fix the fuse when mom puts up too many Christmas lights or hangs the picture or snow blows the driveway. I mean, they’re fairly capable is this regard, competitively and yet, I have no idea how to do any of this stuff. And I’ve asked, repeatedly. Sometimes I get the, your husband will know how (not so much anymore, because I’m fairly rabid about these kinds of things with family who should know me better, but I heard it a lot when I was in my teens).
Random thing that drives me up the wall “Someday when you’ve married…” or “Someday when you have kids…” And, yes, it is a dominant household structure; it’s hardly the only one. And it generally ends up “you’ll have to stop doing x thing” when x generally is something not traditionally considered feminine (or you will have to start doing y when y is something traditionally feminine). Sometimes it’s, if you keep doing x, you’ll never get married. Which just, grrrrr, makes me what to rip someone’s throat out but, I guess just make sure they know it’s ok to not want those things and to not have those things. And while relationships always require compromise (because I don’t know that many people who like to clean, male or female) if you have to stop being yourself it’s not a healthy one.
ps: Sundresses are awesome. And I fought with my mom for years about the ‘you have to wear a dress or a skirt at least twice a week’ rule. Because tights? Are not teh awesome.
Well- my mother is a feminist, and I think she did a pretty awesome job of raising my sister and I as feminists (and she was a SAHM too). Here are some things she did:
1. When we were climbing trees or jungle gyms, she encouraged us and didn’t do that “oh no! you’ll get hurt!” stuff
2. She would actually put our hands in mud and make us make mud pies so we wouldn’t be afraid of getting dirty
3. If we felt like tap dancing or singing in front of a fountain at disneyland or whereever (which I often did), or wanted to make an ass out of myself in any other way, she encouraged me too, because she didn’t want me to feel ashamed about being myself.
4. She never said “oh, you can’t do this, it’s too girly”- but, I have to say, there were no frilly dresses just because it was the 80’s and those birthday cake looking things were hideous. She dressed us very nicely and fashionably without making us resemble pastry. My sister liked barbie dolls- I didn’t, I liked books and board games. That was fine. But she did make sure to tell us that no women on earth looked like that and that we wouldn’t want to.
5. I think this is the most important thing- she made us feel like the the things we felt and said were important and worthwhile. This is why I didn’t realize until I read “Reviving Ophelia” that it was odd that I always raised my hand and talked in class.
6. At night we always talked about current events and things, and we were encouraged from a young age to form our own opinions.
I hope that’s somewhat helpful. I mean, that’s not all of it, but most of the good parts. I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell your girls that things that are traditionally feminine are wrong- yes, there will be some gender socialization, but if you can get them to be aware of it, I don’t think it’s damaging.
Sailorman, use positive feedback instead of negative feedback as far as possible. As they grow a little older, ask for their opinions and views on things, and take them seriously. Comment on how wise their thinking is (when they say something wise) and how smart they are (when they do something smart) to put a counterweight on all the people telling them how pretty they are. Praise them for their abilities (being smart, strong) more than for their behaviour (being nice, obedient), as far as possible.
Sailorman
Ages 2 & 4? I remember those years. Enjoy them, because at that age, Dad is still a hero. Its later when the pre-teen, and teen years set in that that cute little girl that used to run into your arms and smother you with hugs and kisses, now its, “Dad you’re embarrassing me”, “get a grip Dad”, or “you don’t understand”.
Is that sailor as in recreational, pleasure craft, merchant marine, Navy, or Coast Guard?
One way to avoid the cheerleading problem is to present other alternatives. Thanks to the Spiderwick books, my 7 year old is just marking time with gymnastics until she can start fencing. I play Superheroes with the kids alot, we enjoy fighting the badguys. Ask their opinion, praise their problem solving, praise their hard work. Whenever they come out with a sex-based generalization counter it immediately.
Perhaps in a bit of feminist overcompensation, the first time Sydney pulled herself up on the bars below my bed (I have a loft bed), her father and I both praised her hugely: “Look how STRONG you are! Wow, you’re SO strong!”
It’s become a habit. Now, when Sydney is going to hang from the bars, first she announces to the room “I’m strong!” It’s pretty cute.
I am struck by the many stories I’m seeing of girls whose parents did everything they could … and how those girls still faced huge obstacles in the form of their peers, or of boys.
I wonder if one of the biggest lessons we need to teach our girls is how to deal with criticism and find your own community? After all, isn’t that the big punishment our world wields against women — isolation, rejection? (“You’ll never get married if you keep this up.”)
Jen, your post made me think too that at the age my peers turned on me, I already had a firm knowledge that I was lesbian. I can’t imagine the confusion and heartbreak I would have endured had I hoped that these boys find me interesting and romantic.
Lots of good stuff here –
IMHO, teaching your child critical thinking is the most important thing. It’s fine to say “let her have choices”, but without critical thinking skills, those choices will be more likely peer-influenced. It’s not necessarily a problem if a girl wants to be a cheerleader, but it is a problem if it’s because she’s completely buying into a harmful mythos about gender roles. If she’s been taught to question things, the latter situation is a lot less likely. And if she is buying into the mythos, there’s still the hope of helping her to see its pitfalls without necessarily forbidding the cheerleading.
I’ve tried to teach a questioning attitude for everything. Some boys at daycare told my daughter that girls couldn’t like the color red (???), and I made it very clear that any child can like any color, including boys liking pink. (I later found a little note in red crayon that said “for boys”. She told me it was because of what those boys said – her first little feminist act!)
And we constantly criticize TV shows and commercials. Not in a “let’s have a serious discussion” didactic way, but in a snarky comments way, which is far more fun. At 7 years old, she’s starting to imitate this behavior and it’s awesome. ;o)
Finally, I second the “wrestling” thing, but wanted to stress that mom as well as dad can be involved! My daughter and I sometimes “play fight” and by doing so she learns to be aggressive without really hurting me. It provides her a sense of control over aggressive feelings but not suppression. I think the suppression causes women to not be aggressive even when the situation calls for it, but it’s hard to overcome because you may feel that you can’t control that emotion. If only Dad does this kind of thing with his daughter, then aggression seems OK for girls, boys and men, but NOT for women. Oh, and it seemed to be a a good way for her to vent during the whole “Electra complex” stage. :o)
Oh – and one more thing. Our family didn’t have a TV when I was a child (during the 80s), and while it helped in some ways, it failed to help in other ways (books have influence, too!). I really think the parents’ attitude is key.
Feminism isn’t really about wearing pink or playing house or having dolls. It’s about agency. Give your children agency, help them feel that their words are being heard and understood. Teach them to stick up for themselves and make themselves heard. Teach them to assess every situation that arises based on the immediate relevant criteria (rather than preconceived understandings of category). Teach them to make decisions wisely. Ask them questions and answer the ones they ask you.
There are lots of things that you can try to avoid when it comes to robbing women of their agency. Like Disney, for example (classic example=The Little Mermaid who gives up her voice to be with a man. No woman should ever have to give up her voice for anything and any man should cherish any woman’s voice). Avoiding things is just going to make your daughter curious about them so it makes more sense to me to explain to her (in words that she understands) why you don’t like whatever it is. Communicating your distaste will make her think about it; forbidding her from it will draw her into it. Trust me – the things I did the most and for the longest were the ones my parents forbid me to do. I wanted to understand why.
This isn’t so much advice as a book recommendation. I love dance, so I’m constantly searching for good kids’ books about dance. Ballerino Nate is about a little boy who wants to be a ballet dancer, but his brother says that boys can’t dance. It deals with Nate being the only boy in his dance class and everything. At the end, he meets a professional male dancer and proves his brother wrong. But anyway, it’s a really good gender role challenging book.
I haven’t read all of the responses, so forgive me if I repeat previous posters.
I am a very strong feminist and I have been calling myself that since the 8th grade. I’ve BEEN a feminist since the 4th grade when I understood my personal stance on abortion. I did all this while growing up with possibly the most male chauvenistic/misogynistic father one can have. In my house, “traditional” gender roles were dominant. My mom always worked, but she also did the 2nd and 3rd shift. The big question as soon as she got home from work was, “what will I make for dinner to feed your father.” I played dress up and house (I used to stuff baby blankets up my shirt to pretend I was pregnant and then have the baby and play mommy), I had tons of Barbie stuff… I had all the wrong home influences in some ways, and I still turned out ok. I guess my main point is, don’t sweat the small stuff.
Some practical advice:
1) Encourage your children to be outspoken, and self assurred. My mom ALWAYS listened to us as thought what we had to say was important. She never patronized me or made me feel like I didn’t know what I was talking about because I was a kid. As a result, I once told my principal how he could better deal with snow removal and the waiting for buses in the afternoon at school. I was 6 years old, spoke directly to him about the mounds of snow that the plow would dump onto the space between the sidewalk and driveway of the schoolyard and how it didn’t make any sense to plow it if we all had to trek through a 3 foot mound to get TO the bus. The next day, there was shoveled cuts in the mounds of snow. I didn’t think twice about being intimidated by a grown up/person in authority and that is because my mother always listened to what I had to say. She loved to tell that story about how her 6 year old baby walked right up to the principal of the school and told him what to do and he did it.
2) Make certain your daughters have lots of different female role models in their lives (and I agree with Amp about being certain to say it’s ok to be around “feminine” men too). My mom was a dietician in a Catholic Hospital at a time when the nuns ran everything. She worked in an environment that was almost all women, and ALL of the authority figures at work were women. She frequently brought us to things like the Holiday parties and summer ice cream socials, we were used to seeing women in power – that was normal to us, and my mom always swore that was the reason she had 4 such strong, independent daughters.
3) I actually don’t think it’s necessary to cut kids off from the gender toxicity in the world. I almost think you might be doing them more harm, since when they hit reality they won’t have any way to deal with it. I agree with the other posters about letting kids play dress up and be frilly, nothing wrong with being feminine, particularly at younger ages when they are just exploring. Sure expose your kids to all kinds of things, encourage activities, etc, but I really think the most critical time in a girl’s development is middle school and early high school. This is a time when you should be talking with your kids about what’s wrong with barbie, why it’s not ok for the skinny quiet guy in class to get picked on etc. parents have NO idea what goes on in middle school. Now is the time to watch the crappy lifetime movies with woman as victim motifs about rape and domestic violence etc and talk about what’s wrong with it and what’s good about the movies. NEVER underestimate the amount your kids understand. Parents are totally clueless about the crap that happens in middle schools (even nice, upper middle class suburbs with great school systems) I had borderline eating disorders (no surprise), knew at least 2 girls who had attempted suicide (sorta) more than once and who definitely employed cutting and other self depracating behaviors, girls who were sexually active and abused by boyfriends, etc. No one’s parents knew, and I never thought to go to my mom with any of it. I think if you are dialoging with your 13 year old about real world issues they might be more likely to come to you with some of the real life problems they are involved in. Never treat them like they are JUST 13, they need to feel respected and as though what they think about the world matters. I can’t tell you how critical that is. I also highly reccommend getting them involved in some sort of community action. This is a time when they first discover the world around them and that it’s kind of a shithole sometimes, give them a way to feel like they CAN make a difference. recycling clubs, volunteering at a homeless shelter, etc.
4) If your kids are into fairytales, buy If I Were in Charge of the World and Other Worries by Judith Viorst (The author of Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day, another must have). It’s a great little collection of childrens poems and it has some of the best alternate fairy tale poems I’ve ever read to this day… as in the little Mermaid who basically realizes she got screwed and the prince is living with the witch, and that sucks and she should have worried less about changing herself to please him and more about being who she was, just go buy it right now. I still have it and read it myself…
READ WHAT YOUR CHILDREN READ – obviously, you do that when they are young, but this is CRITICAL when they are pre-teen/young adult… GREAT authors include: Judy Blume, Roald Dahl, the person who wrote the Anastasia Krupnik series (those are AMAZING little feminist books)… Madeline L’Engle, I’m sure there are more, but I can’t stress to enough to READ WHAT THEY READ, you gotta have a way in.
I’m actually not anti TV. I’m kinda a TV junkie in fact. I’m trying to make sure my kid doesn’t watch as MUCH TV as I do, but I really think TV can be a GREAT learning opportunity. yes it’s an escape etc etc, but if you teach your children to watch TV with a critical gaze there is a LOT to be learned. When they are young, it’s probably not as big of a deal, but as they hit pre-teen and teen years they will be weird if they don’t know what’s on TV and when they go to friend’s houses to watch it I think they’ll be at a disadvantage because they won’t have any background from YOU on the shows. I watched TV with my mom all the time and we’d talk about the shows and I honestly think she taught me how to watch critically as well as for enjoyment and I think that’s an important life skill.
Oh and about magazines. Highlights is great for little kids, but when I was in oh, 5th or 6th grade my mom got me a subscription to Zillions which is the kids counterpart to consumer reports. It’s a magazine written by kids about kids for kids and it was great. It’s probably too consumeristic in a lot of ways and encourages little capitalists, so I’m sure it has its downfalls, but it was not about fashion or boys or make-up, it was a gender neutral mag and taught skills on how to save money and advice on how to make money (successful lemonade stands, etc), reviewed kid products, etc. It was fun to get mail and have something that wasn’t condescending to me. NEVER EVER let your kids read YM or Seventeen… I wrote a paper in college about how teen girl mags basically prepared women to be porn stars and objects. Yuck.
I guess that’s it for now. Like I said, the important thing is not to sweat the small stuff. Allow your kids to be who they are, but most importantly KNOW who they are. If you make an investment in listening to your daughters and they feel respected by you, I think you will have an impact on their self assurance that will inevitably lead to feminist tendencies. Speak openly and honestly with your children about the world and its inequities and encourage them to communicate back, either with you or at school, and provide them with an outlet for action and I don’t think you’ll have any problems.
Bean–all I can say is, YES. If your children get the impression that they will only be loved if they are “like you”, that is incredibly dangerous. Teach them to think for themselves, and then let them do so–and love them regardless, and MAKE SURE they know they will be loved regardless. (My wife and I both grew up in families where we weren’t confident of that; it does a tremendous amount of damage.)
I disagree with Kali in #30. I think children should be loved as who they are, but should be praised for what they do. This is one of the big differences between the compliments boys and girls get; boys are complimented for their achievements (doing, learning) while girls are complimented for their endowments (pretty, strong, smart). Learning that what you do–not what you have and can’t change–matters to people gives children much better self-image.
Well, y’all rock. Thanks.
It is very nice to have the small bits of practical information, like “don’t sweat the pink tutus,” as well as the longer bits of more existential information. Before, I had felt like everything I was reading was either all about the theory (but didn’t answer the question “what about the tutus?”) or was all about the evils of television without touching on any theoretical stuff. This thread is a great mix.
I appreciate all the responses. I’ll probably try to summarize what I’m getting out of this in a future post on my blog, and will link a followup to Amp if he’s interested.
“boys are complimented for their achievements (doing, learning) while girls are complimented for their endowments (pretty, strong, smart). ”
I don’t see girls being complimented for being strong and smart as often as boys are.
Sailorman, a bit of background on why I said that you should praise them for their abilities more than behaviour. Growing up, my father always praised me for working hard whenever I achieved something. All through school I had a very low opinion of my intelligence even though I was almost always topping my class. It was only much later, during my Ph.D. in fact, that I learned to have confidence in my *abilities*, rather than just attributing my success to *effort*.
I see the same thing happening with my niece. She has a genius level IQ and is extremely talented, but all the praise she gets from her parents is for being a teacher’s pet, for being such a “good girl”. I hope it doesn’t undermine her confidence in her abilities.
Teach them
Vivi Bene, Ridi spesso, e` Ama Molto!
(Live well, laugh often, and love much)
Kids like dresses, then they don’t… so unless they have a fit and REFUSE to wear reaponable clothes for something where you care what they wear — let ’em wear dresses.
I’ve watched my step-daughter go through wearing ONLY pink or dresses, preferably both, and resisting pants with alarming vehemence in 2 degree weather, to refusing to wear a dress under any circumstances, and wearing almost exclusively BLUE (rejecting pink with as much energy as she formerly sought it) to wearing clothes that I thought were entirely too sexy for an 11 year old, to wearing clothes that I think belong in PE locker rooms, but not in restaurants (sweats etc.).
They try different things. This is a good thing. It lets them learn their OWN styles.
Don’t spend so much energy making sure they’re not gender stereotyped that they can’t be themselves.
Interesting discussion…
As a parent of a six-year-old boy, I’m coming from a slightly different angle, but, well, yeah. Pretty princess dresses *are* cool. Hot pink and purple and glitter *are* attractive, and decorating yourself -nail polish, jewel stickers, make-up – can be thrilling. Even when I was a kid boys had opportunities to play dress up, and even within the roles acceptable for their gender there was lots of room for exploration (pirates and indians in particular allowed for a certain degree of flamboyance and self-decoration; cowboys, not so much). Still, as a girl, I knew I had the good stuff with the sequined swirl skirts and old velvet ladies’ hats and gloves and beaded shawls….
I’ve stocked my son’s dress-ups basket with some big squares of satin fabric that can be capes for superheroes, wizards, or knights; they’ve been turned into dresses and skirts and magical doorways and baby slings as well. Temp tatoos and face paint are totally acceptable for boys to play with now (at least where I live) so that kind of play seems less gender-oriented than I remember as a kid. (It’s not even as kid-oriented these days – adults having elaborate Halloween costumes, for example.)
Everyday clothes are a bit more problematic. With the excecption of a single token Spiderman shirt, we don’t get “licensed character” clothing at all, leaving us with a choice of quasi-military (tanks! guns! camo prints!), he-man sports (football!), or ugly (orange! orange! orange!). Well, I’m exaggerating a bit, but finding fun everyday clothes for a little boy is hard, especially if his favorite color is pink. (And yes, I realize this is entirely *my* hangup, not his; he’s be happy to wear a pink sequined Disney Princess tee shirt to school, but even in our rather progressive community I think that would get him in trouble socially with the other kids.)
Well, what I *really* wanted to comment on.
I’ve been thinking lately about the implications of our natural inclination, when a group of kids needs to be divided arbitrarily, to do it along the gender line. For example, in kindergarten, boys have show-and-tell one week, girls the next. In swim class, when the instructor wanted to do a competition he divides the class into boys vs. girls. When two lines need to be formed – boys in one line, girls in the other. (And I’m not even getting into the restroom issue!).
Why does this bother me? I know there are bigger issues out there, but I can’t help but think about how, aside from any differing expectations for behaviour or ability from the two groups (which in the examples above were manifestly *not* the reason for the division)- the simple act of defining the two groups by gender has an effect on the children’s perception of themselves and of others. Maybe.
Anyway, last year when my son realized that he wouldn’t get to go to a birthday party for a classmate because she was only inviting the girls he was a bit upset. As a parent, I see the wisdom of limiting the guest list, but it was hard to explain the “girls not boys” part to a child who has always had very close friends of both genders. He just felt left out, period.
As a matter of school policy, party invitations can be distributed at school only if everyone in the class is invited *or* if the invitations go out to just all the girls or just all the boys… the idea that no one feels left out, and I think it is a wise policy, but the underlying assumption that the boys will be necessarily better friends with boys, and girls with girls, and that it is ok to exclude the others based on the gender, well, it does bother me somewhere deep down.
It’s not an issue of fairness, more one of perception. But still.
What a wonderful thread…it is very encouraging to see this type of dialogue. I have a concern very much in line with this discussion. My partner and I just received news that we are pregnant with a girl due in Feb. As happy as I am about this news I am quite frightened by the prospect of raising a child where I live…Palm Beach County in South Florida (not necessarily a breeding ground of progressive or forward thinking people). I am not exaggerating in saying that many young girls here save their allowance in anticipation of their first breast augmentation.
My partner and I strongly believe in the value of gender neutral child rearing, feminism, social justice so on and so forth, but feel isolated in our beliefs here. So here’s the rub. How does one foster the social enforcement of these values, especially a strong feminist perspective, in a child when the surrounding culture is grossly sexist and racist?
Suggestions or thoughts anyone…please??
This isn’t much consolation, but I thought it would be too hard to acheive, so I moved.
Yeah. If you want to live in a neighborhood where you can get great bagels and lox, you have to leave Kansas. Sorry.
“But doc, you’re the one showing me all the dirty controlling pictures!”
dude. seriously, did he SAY anything about porn? at all?
“Purge your male-supremacist mindset!”
yes indeedy. i recommend Clorox.
anyway, what everyone else said wrt: don’t sweat it.
My mom deliberately did not want to dress me in pink, painted my first childhood room yellow (it was the seventies, bless her). first chance i got i demanded a PINK room (when we moved), and i went through a period of only wanting to wear skirts.
this is not a phase that has particularly lasted into my adulthood, i will report.
and yes: i am afraid that good bagels and lox are NOT a universal good and never will be.
>As a parent of a six-year-old boy, I’m coming from a slightly different angle, but, well, yeah. Pretty princess dresses *are* cool. Hot pink and purple and glitter *are* attractive, and decorating yourself -nail polish, jewel stickers, make-up – can be thrilling. >
Amen.
“Some ideas..
“Encourage them to approve of feminine boys…”
Oooooh, I LIKE that one! Amp, I think that’s the answer you were looking for as to how to let girls be princesses yet still accept traits within themselves that society sees as “male!” Since around puberty the way preteens & teens classify, critique, accept, & reject people of the opposite sex makes a louder statement to their peers than the way they classify, critique, accept, & reject people of the same sex (after all, heterodating is “IMPORTANT!”), I’d put this idea at the top of my list.