If you follow events on the intertubes, you may have heard of the sad case of Amber Cole, a 14-year-old girl who was videotaped giving oral sex to a boy the same age, as one of his friends watched. The other videotaped it, of course; then, being a massive douche, he uploaded it to Facebook. From there it went viral, because I guess child pornography is okay now.
If you’ve followed reality for the past ever, you know exactly how this has gone down. Amber Cole’s name has been spread far and wide across the internet. The boys in the video remain anonymous. Amber’s transgression is viewed as totally awful; the boys — well, they’ll be boys, amirite?
Meanwhile, there’s been not enough of a strong defense of Amber — who is African American — from the white feminist community. I’m not sure why, though I suspect it’s a bit of fallout from the Slutwalk whitesplaining debacle. This needs to stop; Amber Cole doesn’t deserve to have me know her name and her teen sins, and that is something that any decent human should say without reservation. We can do that without wading back into the Slutwalk controversy (such as it is — anyone with the vaguest understanding of white privilege knows what went wrong there, and why. It’s not so much a controversy as Exhibit Q for the proposition that being liberal does not make one automatically anti-racist.)
So yes, we should vocally defend Amber Cole. Not to say that there aren’t potentially interesting things we could talk about regarding intersectionality, the way that African American women who are sexually active are treated differently than white women, and the marginalizing of non-white voices in the feminist community. These are all important and serious issues that we should deal with in an open and honest manner. And we could use the Amber Cole case as an opportunity to do so. I’d love to see, say, Jezebel post something by an African American writer regarding this debacle. And lo and behold, they have!
This is great. Or it would be great, if the writer in question was, say, Pam Spaulding or Renee Martin. But it isn’t. No, the writer in question is Jimi Izrael who, you may have noticed, is a guy. Now, being a male feminist, that’s not so much a problem. What is a problem is that Izrael is not a feminist. He’s an unrepentant MRA whose main take on the Chris Brown attack on Rhianna was to talk about how Rhianna shouldn’t have been reading Chris’ text messages. He’s best known for a book in which he castigates African American women for being too picky and choosing handsome alpha males instead of Nice Guys™.
So yeah. This should be awesome, if by “awesome” you mean “horrifying.” And the “awesome” starts right with the headline.
I Am Amber Cole’s Father
He’s…he’s not going to pretend he’s Amber’s dad, is he? That would be…that would be awful. Tell me he isn’t going to….
I am Amber Cole’s father. I am angry, confused and completely at a loss. I love my daughter. I want to guide her without suppressing her. That is not always easy. Children need protection from their worst inclinations. That is not always easy.
Oh, fuck me.
I am trying to convince her that the world will still love her if she keeps her clothes on. I do not know if she can hear me, or if she is listening. She would listen to her mother, if her mother was not busy. Doing something, anything that is not parenting. I want her mother to spend less time being “empowered” and more time being aware and engaged with our daughter. I want her mother to be a better role model, not a BFF. It takes two.
Correction: fuck you.
Where the hell did that come from? Where in God’s name did Izrael come up with that half a paragraph? There’s been no evidence put forward that Amber’s mother is particularly disengaged or a bad parent. No evidence that she failed to talk to Amber about anything. No evidence that she’s anything other than a good, dedicated parent. Near as I can tell, this sequence is just pure, free-floating misogyny projected onto a situation that Izrael knows very little about. It won’t be the last.
Anyhow, Izrael’s first paragraph was about attacking Amber’s mom. Hopefully, he’ll mention the boys who, you know, videotaped this and uploaded it to the internet. After all, we know they did something wrong.
I am Amber Cole’s father and this should go with saying: I am angry with those boys.
Well, okay. That’s…
But I knew those boys. Those boys were my friends. I grew up with those boys, hung out with those boys.
You know what I would never, never, never say about boys who intentionally degraded my daughter? This. I can assure you, if God forbid anyone should ever violate my daughter’s privacy and trust like that, my vengeance will be swift and awesome. I will not muse that I knew boys like you; I will do everything in my power to make your life miserable.
No father could reminisce about his childhood while talking about his child being shamed. No father worth a damn, anyhow.
But I was always The Other Guy – the boy you do not see on the tape. The one who, because of religious beliefs, self-respect or common sense decides to have no parts of such a thing. He is a nerd. He is an outsider. He is long gone, at home reading and writing. I want to meet The Other Guy and shake his hand. I’m trying to raise The Other Guy. But it is not easy. Girls don’t like The Other Guy. Being the Other Guy is not as cool as being one of the boys. I want to raise my boy to not be that kind of cool. Being a gentleman is cool. I want him to get the chance I did not have. I want him to to wait for that special girl.
Oh. My. God. He did not just pull out a Nice Guy™ whine in the second fucking paragraph of his post on how he loves his fake daughter, did he? He did? Kunapipi, take the wheel.
And by the way, you know how you can ensure that your son doesn’t grow up to treat women with respect? Tell him that women don’t respect decent guys — but that he should be one anyhow. That’s a message that is going to have 50 percent effectiveness.
I am Amber Cole’s father and I have seen the video.
You know what I will never, never, never, never, never do? Watch a sex video with my daughter in it. Ever. Period. Seriously, I’d rather blind myself.
You probably have too.
Nope. Not into kiddie porn. Especially when it was uploaded specifically to shame a 14-year-old girl.
I would like to ask her mother’s boyfriend, Karrine Steffans or Kim Kardashian where my daughter learned that. How she became proficient at such a difficult act.
Now, I’m not going to run down blowjobs here. They’re great, and I think most men enjoy receiving them from their partners. But let’s face it, they’re not rocket science. I’ve never given one, but I think if I for some reason decided to, I could figure it out. Indeed, billions of men and women have managed to figure it out just fine, even before Kim Kardashian was born!
I want to know who has been teaching my little girl how to act like a woman while I have been trying to teach her to be a young lady. Teens don’t have the tools they need to express, explore and comprehend the consequences of careless intimacy. I want to know what kinds of people we are allowing to look after our children when we are not around. I want to know why my 14 year-old knows so much about oral sex.
Look, Amber and her partner are ahead of where I was at 14, but not by much. I knew what a blowjob was at 14. I hadn’t had one, but I wouldn’t have turned one down, either. Now, I was too young to engage in that level of physical intimacy, but like roughly every 14-year-old on the planet, knowing that probably wouldn’t have stopped me.
I think it’s good that we tell our kids about sex. That we set them up to learn what it is and what it isn’t. I’m not going to pretend that I think Amber or her partner made good choices here — if Amber made her decision freely, it wasn’t a good one, and however things went down, her partner made a bad one. But I’m not going to pretend that nobody was making bad choices about sex twenty years ago, or two hundred, or two thousand. Romeo and Juliet were about 14; teens have been making bad decisions about sex forever.
Of course, this supposes the act was consensual. It might not have been, not fully. Which takes this out of “bad decision” territory and into “rape” territory. This should go without saying; certainly, Izrael doesn’t say anything about it. But that’s because he assumes his not-daughter was behaving like a slut. Any other possibility never crosses his mind.
And now, let the dynamite go boom.
I am Amber Cole’s father, and I am not raising a slut. White feminists can teach their own little girls to find empowerment through their crotches – my brown little girl cannot afford to be that carefree and cavalier with her life choices.
A few commenters on Jezebel defended this part. I’m not going to. Oh, Izrael is right that African American women do not have the freedom to be as open about their sexuality as White women do, at least for now. But that’s not a good thing; that’s something that hopefully will change someday. And I don’t know any women, not even the most sex-positive of the sex-positive, who are arguing that they’ve found “empowerment through their crotches.” What they’ve said — and what I believe — is that what they choose to do with those crotches is their own damn business, and that doesn’t define whether they’re worthwhile or not.
But — and this is the important part — Amber wasn’t giving quasi-public blowjobs to her boyfriend to empower herself. If rumors are to be believed, she was doing it to win back an ex. Or maybe win a boy’s affection. She was doing it to get attention from boys. If other sources are to be believed, she was coerced into it. If Izrael was serious about caring about Amber, he’d ask why his not-daughter felt she had to use sex to hold onto a relationship, or worse, why she had no choice but to engage in a sex act. And why we teach our sons that this is a price they can demand.
But he’s not interested in that discussion. He’d much rather bash white feminists.
Slutlife is the hard, lonely vocation of rich, educated, privileged white women who will fuck The World, contract social diseases and still, somehow find a husband. No black woman ever got far being a slut. I want to know what kind of women “slutwalk,” while young impressionable girls of all kinds look on with wonder and admiration. I want to know why these same women run to protect Miley Cyrus but just shrugged, nonplussed for my little brown girl. I want to know what the fuck those dumb bunnies are thinking. Most of them do not have daughters. I want my daughter, the woman, to have healthy, vibrant sexuality. My little girl should have other priorities. I am her father. I will protect her and every woman in my life with my life.
That paragraph is all over the map. White feminists are sluts who won’t stick up for my not-daughter! And they’re also stupid and don’t have daughters, unlike me with my not-daughter, who I want to have a healthy sexuality! I don’t want her to care about sexuality. I’m her not-father, and I’ll protect her with my life, but I don’t really care enough to get mad at the boys who were involved here.
And that’s the rub. There’s far more vitriol in this column for white feminists, Kim Kardashian, and a fictional representation of Amber Cole’s mother than for the boys who actually and certainly videotaped this act and uploaded it to the internet, and may have pressured her into the act itself. Women suck. Boys will be boys. But boy, Izrael sure cares about Amber, so much that he’s gonna bring it home with a pure MRA rant.
I am Amber Cole’s father. Don’t ask where I was that afternoon, because you already know. I was at work, just like you. I do not live with her, cannot always talk to her, cannot always be there. Not the way I want, and there are few laws to help me. To protect me and my rights. No one cares that I cannot be the kind of father I would like to be, until my daughter is a link, a hashtag, a trending topic. A punch-line. The subject of what may be the most widely seen piece of child pornography in history: A 14 year-old giving oral while two other boys watch and laugh. You say what you would do, what you would say, but you have no idea. We are all great parents with other people’s children. You blame me. Do not judge me. I love my daughter as much as you love yours. I am doing the best I can. I need the help of a partner who at times seems to be modeling the kind of behavior I am discouraging. We are fighting. Pushing and pulling, in no one’s best interest. Why can’t this be about my daughter? No, this is not about blame. It takes a village that starts with parents – all parties must be accountable. But parenting? Yeah. To do it well–even after all these years –it still takes two.
And again, we go back to the projection of what Izrael sees as the relationship between Amber’s parents, a relationship that he has no connection to whatsoever. Amber’s mother and father may be together. They may be split up. I don’t know, and a quick Google search doesn’t tell me. Maybe they are split up. They could be.
But if they are, there’s no evidence that Amber’s mom is fighting with her dad. No evidence that Amber’s dad is shut out of the relationship in favor of the mom. And not for nothing, but sometimes, despite the best parenting in the world, kids screw up. If the act was consensual, I don’t really blame Amber and her partner for it. In the grand scheme of things, they did nothing that millions of 14-year-olds haven’t done, and if it was a bad decision, it’s a bad decision that they share will many, many others.
As for Izrael’s questions — what would I do? What would I say? I don’t know. I feel awful for Amber and for her family. I wouldn’t substitute my judgment for theirs. I hope I could find a way to be supportive, while keeping myself from murdering anyone. But I don’t know how Amber Cole’s family works, and I won’t pretend I do. Unlike Izrael, who’s decided her family works like every MRA’s fever dream says it does.
Bring it home with the awful.
Kid sex is as old as time, but that realization doesn’t make me feel any better. Amber Cole is my daughter.
I am Jimi Izrael. I am not really Amber Cole’s father. But she is my daughter.
You do not think so. But she is your daughter too.
No, she isn’t. And she isn’t your daughter, either.
Do you hear me? She isn’t your daughter.
Amber Cole doesn’t need you as a father. Indeed, thank God she doesn’t have you as a father. At a time when she’s had an intimate act spread across the internet, had her name plastered up on YouTube and Facebook and Twitter, had her morals questioned and her technique critiqued, she needs parents who actually will try to support her. I don’t know if her parents will. But you sure as hell won’t.
You’re too interested in moralizing and lecturing and blaming women — over and over again — to give more than a passing nod to the greatest lapse of judgment in this sad, sordid affair. Not Amber giving a blowjob, nor her partner receiving one, assuming it was consensual. Not even the act being done with his friends around. But the decision — willful, premeditated, and with malice aforethought — to videotape the act and upload the video to the internet, where it was bound to spread. Giving in to sexual urges? Nobody who’s done so can truly claim that it’s a decision made completely rationally. But choosing to intentionally shame someone? That’s a choice. And a horrible one.
If you were really Amber’s father, the first thing you’d have written would be names — three names, to be specific. Yes, they’re minors, but so’s your daughter, and the whole world knows her name now. I’d be screaming the names of the boys who violated her. Telling them to anyone who would listen. I’d tell people this should be the called Adam, Billy and Chuck video. Wasn’t Adam a partner in the sex act? Wasn’t Billy watching? Didn’t Chuck hold the camera? Why aren’t they getting attacked? And by the way, given that there were three boys there, and one girl, and the boys were friends — how willingly did Amber consent? You never even to ask the fucking question. That would be my first question, and the first question of any decent father.
If you were Amber’s father, really Amber’s father, you’d be angry at YouTube and Facebook for keeping child pornography — child pornography — online after you notified them about it. You’d be angry at the school for not having their property adequately monitored. You’d be furious at the boys who at best merely violated her privacy, and at worst raped her. And you’d be focused on helping your daughter heal, not yelling and screaming about how bad her mom is. Because when your child is hurting, if you’re any kind of decent parent, that’s the only thing that matters.
You’re not Amber Cole’s father. She has a father. And he’s angry — about his belief that his daughter was coerced into doing this. He’s angry — about the way the video providers drug their heels after being asked to delete it. He’s pushing for charges to be filed against the boy who videotaped the act. He’s focused on those who hurt his daughter.
That’s what a real father does. Not slut-shame his daughter, or attack her mother. No, a real father goes to war to defend his daughter, goes full-tilt after those who wronged her. Fortunately for Amber Cole, she has a real father. And fortunately for her, Jimi, it isn’t you.
Between the police violence toward Occupy Oakland last night, and this essay today, it’s clearly going to be a day where my stomach just hurts with rage all the time.
Seriously, what was Jezebel thinking?
Gotta say,
I think that Jezebel has really done a number on people. How this publication is regarded as even nominally feminist is beyond me. They do this kind of thing periodically, in true gawker media fashion. They set up an act like this by developing an audience, then they post something they should KNOW will be an anathema, infuriating to that audience, and they do it to generate click through buzz. Putting this article up is a way to make people active and generate views, pure and simple. I have come to view Jezebel as a tool to prime women readers just for opportunities like this.
I remember some of their other guest writers, male, doing other versions of this trick. Like the time they had an article about how in France, women weren’t so uptight about being groped in public, with the implication that it was a flaw in American women to be so outraged by misogynist behavior. Tons of traffic, outrage generated, linked to by other sites, etc.
Jezebel is a complete scam, from the way their comment system works to their view generation strategy. They do throw in some good content to keep the feminist perspective hanging in, but only to set that audience up for a periodical tempest in a teacup, a la the referred piece. I feel quite strongly that relating Jezebel to feminism, by anyone, is helping to craft feminism as a brand, a lifestyle choice, rather than a struggle. And this neoliberal co-option and commodification is harmful to the goals of feminism, for reasons well explored in feminist literature. Sorry to rant, but Jezebel does more harm than good, IMO. I apologize to those who enjoy it; I have read good stuff on there, and they do some good, but to me the cost is too high in view of the overarching goals of the feminist movement.
This (the post at Jezebel, not your take down) is so incredibly disgusting.
How vile do you have to be to take something this horrible happening to a kid and use it as a starting point to propagate your personal vendetta against feminism and “all those bitches who don’t like nice guys?”
Also, I think it is important to make it very clear that even if she gave the boy a blow job voluntarily, and even if that was a bad choice, this bad choice is not the reason for what people are doing to her. Other young girls have sex and nothing happens. The reason for what is happening to Amber is the fact that some asshole decided to tape it an put it on the net. And the fact that untold assholes love nothing as much as they love attacking women for being sexual beings, no matter what the circumstances are. And the fact that African American women especially are considered free for anyone to attack, judge and demean as they please.
Just like what leads to a woman getting raped is not her getting drunk but the fact that she had the incredibly bad fortune of being in the presence of a rapist.
I feel so sick with worry for that little girl. I hope she has a lot of support from her loved ones and acces to proffessional help to deal with this. I keep remembering last year, when Tyler Clementi committed suicide after his asshole roommate published that video of him having sex. Spirit day was just last week!
I hope she makes it through this and can eventually gain happiness again.
THIS. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS ALL THE WAY TO INFINITY.
Where the hell did that come from? Where in God’s name did Izrael come up with that half a paragraph?
This narrative: “I am so-and-so’s whatever”–is common in Christian literature and conversion tracts. It was usually used to shame a wrong-doer: “I am the mother of the girl you killed” (they weren’t really, just writing from that perspective for dramatic effect) or “I am the dead girl’s teacher, I should have seen she was abused”… etc. This was used as a literary device and wasn’t usually a bad thing. It eventually got co-opted by Reader’s Digest for health purposes and extended to organs: “I am Joe’s Lung” (really), which was about smoking, “I am Joe’s Liver” which was about drinking, etc etc.
And so now you get from an MRA, I am Amber’s father.
Patriarchy means “rule of the fathers”–its rather Freudian he chooses father instead of some other social role. It tells you what he thinks his job concerning women is, what he thinks of himself.
I went to sleep last night agitated and with my mind reeling after reading the piece on Jezebel. Reading your piece this morning has helped to restore a little bit of my faith in humanity, so thank you for writing this.
Smith above wrote some very good stuff about what Jezebel is up to, and what Gawker media is up to with this sort of fostering of a community only to ensure an eventual bloodbath. And all for clicks and far more importantly for the advertising dollars those clicks represent.
I wish though that people would let the companies who advertise on Jezebel know their feelings. Maybe if Gawker media lost an advertiser or two over things like this they would think twice before they do it again.
Assuming there is no rape, Jeff, if you would be mad at anybody other than the boy who posted this to the internet than you are a psychopath yourself. There’s nothing wrong with a young male watching another young male and female have sex, and there’s no need to “shame” anyone. You have a problem with the larger culture which, need I say, includes plenty of females spreading this shame around as well. Take it up with the larger culture and leave the innocent teens of either sex alone.
@Clarence —
I’m sorry, but I’ve lost you. I’m angry at the boys specifically because they colluded to shame Amber. (The three were arrested today.) As I said above, if the sex was consensual it’s not the worst thing in the world. But at the very least, if I was Amber’s father, I’d want their names occupying the same level of notoriety as hers, and if that’s a bit malicious, then so be it; if I was Amber’s father, I would not be in a charitable mood.
Moreover, label me a psychopath all you want, but yeah, there is something wrong about a group of boys watching one girl perform sex acts on a member of a group. If everyone’s an adult, that’s another thing entirely, but we’re not talking about adults. 14-year-olds are not emotionally mature. They need time to learn how to make sex a part of an intimate relationship, rather than a performance for the attention of others. And that does mean that at that age, pushing sex onto a quasi-public stage is harmful, and being part of a group that encourages it is harmful.
If saying that makes me a prude or a psychopath, so be it. But I don’t think Amber would have benefited from this experience had this only been a story shared at school. Do you?
Jeff:
Need I remind you that being arrested does not equate to guilt?
Here’s some more information. It appears the “arrests” were rumors.
http://gossiponthis.com/2011/10/26/amber-cole-dad-outraged-after-video-goes-viral/
Here you find out there was allegedly some coercion involved as well.
And by the way, “Amber Cole” is a psuedonym. Unless her real name somehow comes out, I’m glad to say that she is likely not going to be permanently impacted by the video after all.
@Smith —
There are some good writers there, but I agree, the Gawker “let’s offend our core demographic” ethos is wearing thin. I debated writing this specifically because I didn’t want to give them the page views, but I decided ultimately MRA gibberish like this needs to be confronted, especially when posted on an ostensibly feminist website.
Unless her real name somehow comes out
Yeah, she’ll be the one person featured in an exploitative video on the Internet who remains anonymous forever.
As for calling Jeff a psychopath, the ‘young female’ in this video was a child. Either the boys were also children, in which case you are not talking about adults mutually engaging in healthy consensual group sex, or they were adults, in which case you’re talking about child rape.
I don’t have a problem, in principle, with children having non-coerced sex with other children of the same age. I don’t see a reason to be more upset in principle about it being non-coercively watched by other children of the same age. (I’m not convinced by Jeff’s reason.)
However, I don’t think having a problem with those things makes you a sociopath.
I’m only stating this to go on record as Dissenting Feminist (TM) in case someone wants to try to pretend all feminists agree on this stuff.
However, it seems like a derail to me–or at any rate, tangential. The horror here is distributing the video! And companies supporting that! And slut-shaming a fourteen year old and… oh dear. I had been living in a cave since I had not heard of this. Sometimes it’s nice to be living in a cave. What a horrible ordeal to have to go through at 14, and I am fiercely but impotently snarly at everyone who’s collaborated to make the situation worse, including Izrael.
Uh. Sure, it’s possible that in a thoroughly egalitarian, post-patriarchal, post-racial society a 14-year-old girl would be giving a 14-year-old guy a blowjob in the presence of his friends, one of whom just happened to have a camera handy and recorded it because, hey, what’s wrong about recording some consensual fun between friends. It’s also possible that Lee Harvey Oswald just coincidentally found himself in the Texas Book Depository with a rifle and decided to fire a few shots out the window.
The Nice Guy thing just skeeves me out. It’s bad enough that he thinks a guy is stud for accepting a blowjob and girl is a slut for giving one, and then it goes downhill.
I am Jane’s bulging bile duct of rage.
Not that this makes his rant any better, but when Jimi Izrael referred to Amber Cole’s mother, I believe (based on other writings of his) that he was indeed referring to his actual daughter’s mother and their situation.
@Deesha —
Frankly, I find that almost worse. My daughter’s mom and I do not agree on everything. But I’m not going to project every up and down of that relationship onto everyone else.
paul:
Have you ever heard of this little thing called a “cellphone”? They often have cameras in them and I hear lots of kids have them these days.
I’m sure the one doing the recording was doing so surreptiously, which is very easy to do with the pocket sized cameras we have nowadays. It’s not like this was an abandoned studio and they had her in there with a whole gaffing crew or something.
“I debated writing this specifically because I didn’t want to give them the page views, but I decided ultimately MRA gibberish like this needs to be confronted, especially when posted on an ostensibly feminist website.”
I must admit, Jeff, this had me laughing my ass off. Yeah, like THAT is ever going to be a problem. Pretty much every MRA I have ever seen from reasonable to rabid hates, hates, HATES Jezebel.
mythago:
You can find the boy’s ages pretty much everywhere on the web. They were peers with the girl. Of course usually when the term “boy” is used in a news story it means that the person , while maybe a teen, is under the age of 18.
Also, they were adolescents, not children. Far as I know they were all past puberty. This doesn’t make it right for adults to have sex with them, but it does mean that pretending the girl was in elementary school or kindergarten is prejudicial and unhelpful.
Just wanted to say this article is awesome. Never read you before, but this will be on the personal blogroll from here in out. Just fucking awesome.
There are some important issues that he touches on, such the commercial sexualisation of youth, the relationship of feminism and race, and the difficulties of modern parenting. But there’s obviously too much projection and weirdness in the piece for these to come to the fore.
Love this retort, love that you are writing about it. Wish more people would. We are all culpable here — what a tragic story this is. Thank you for reading and writing about my essay.
Best,
jimi
Jeff, dude. If I could give you a high five, up high and down low through the computer I would. This was the best shyt ever! I have reposted the link to at least a dozen threads visited by Black women too silly to recognize that what Jimi Izreal posted was nothing but a vile regurgitation of his own rejection and rage towards women. I knew I was going to be pissed off as soon as he used the word “but…” when referencing the behavior of those sociopath boys. Anyway, because of you the world is a better place for me today.
Would Izreel’s post even be an issue had he not attacked white feminists? Don’t get me wrong because he appears to be just another conquored black male picking on those he thinks are weaker…women be they black or white. If Amber Cole or any other girl or boy were his/son daughter, his parental rights should be terminated. No father worth the ground he walks on would even attempt to understand the boys in the video. They’d be out to kick their butts.
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yes lormarie, it would because the point of the outrage is this: jimi izrael is blaming a girl for ending up on the internet giving a blow job.
at no point does he question whether she was coerced.
at no point does he actually hold the boys responsible for posting the video.
at no point does he actually hold the boys’ mothers or fathers responsible. in fact, he doesn’t even hold the girl’s father responsible.
no, instead it’s all her fault, with an assist from her mama.
the attack on white feminists was just a bonus.
@LorMarie —
This article would have triggered a response from me had it said nothing about white feminists. The MRA whining and slut-shaming was quite enough to draw my ire, and it’s the core of my attack on the article.
Besides, caught up in the anger about white feminists here is some truth, and I acknowledge it twice in the article — white feminists have been too slow to come to Amber’s defense, and that is unforgivable. Indeed, it’s precisely why I wish this had been a different article written by a different writer; we should be called out for that, and a more credible writer on women’s issues could have made that argument and had it listened to. Renee Martin did, for example; I wish Jezebel had asked for permission to reprint her post.
It’s unfortunate, @Jimi Izrael, that you chose to target women of all colors so freely in your article, because the two unassailable points you make — that white feminists need to better defend Amber, and that African American women face different and more severe consequences for being viewed as oversexualized — get lost in the muck.
Thank you Jeff for clarifying. It was the Womanist Musings and my own experience with white feminists. The fact that Jezebel gave Izrael a voice for whatever reason further complicates things for me and gender conscious nonwhite women in general.
When I heard about this post, I scrambled over as FAST as I could. This is a bit of writing awesomeness, right cheah. This is a logical and reasonable response–not self-serving, blaming, or shaming of the “wimmens” talkin’ bout ” if they’d just be good little heffers and super-glue their legs closed (except when some predator cajoles or terrorizes her into opening them, and THEN call HER the slut)” while black men are just powerless and benign…all they want to do is work and take care of the kids they bear out-of-wedlock 73% of the time. PULEEZE.
Oh, I misunderstood.
Jeff, I thought your essay was about slut shaming and a tragedy involving a young girl and showed your basic humanity in that you felt that an injustice had been done. Hell, I agree with you and if there was ANY coercion by the young males involved or if there was ANY collusion between the other two boys and the camera recording person, I want them prosecuted in some way.
Instead, you basically state that your only purpose was to attack MRA’s by writing about an “MRA” essay on a website that’s never published one before. I put “MRA” in quotes because many MRA’s would not recognize your characterization of them, and I have yet to see where Mr. Izrael claims to be one.
Anyway, I’ll never mistake your partisan political self for having real feelings about things ever again.
@Jimi Izrael – We may all be culpable here in a broad sense, but you specifically are guilty of writing a piece whose slut-shaming, anti-feminist attitudes contribute to the toxicity of the culture that influenced that boy to post the video and that will make the fallout from the video highly damaging to the girl involved. You called “your” daughter a slut, you blamed her for choosing the wrong boys, and you told her that her failure to be a proper lady is her mother’s and feminism’s fault. You shamed her for choosing (or possibly being coerced) to have sex on the one hand, and on the other hand you excused the boys involved for not only the sex but for the malicious act of posting the video.
I’ve read Jezebel from time to time as feminist-lite mind candy, and I also glance at the other family sites sometimes. I am not going to be looking at Jezebel again. Surely there are entertaining websites out there that have enough conscience not to post garbage like this.
Please don’t make personal attacks on this website. (Here are the comments policies, in case you haven’t read them.)
If you want to respond to me, do it in an open thread, not this thread.
@Clarence —
I’m sorry. I thought you were attempting to make a good-faith argument, but instead you’ve decided to derail things. I’m not sure why you feel the need to do so in this case, but that’s your choice.
I’ll be happy to discuss things when you cease trolling. Good day.
Thank you, Jeff. I am a black woman who has two daughters, and like everyone here, I was sickened to read about Amber’s story. I’m not on twitter, so the first I heard of this horrible situation was from a Jezebel post by the No Wedding No Womb woman, which was not as revolting as the Izrael guy’s post but was deeply flawed nonetheless. Izrael seems so far submerged in self-pity, bitterness, and misogyny, I fear that he is hopeless. But I’m grateful for my husband and father who would never pen such a deluded diatribe, and who both have very healthy relationships with my girls. And I’m grateful for you. You have a new reader and fan.
Yeah, I just spent time thumbing up and down so many comments on this site. Thank you so much, Jeff, for your fantastic deconstruction, incisive criticism and clarity on this issue. Would you be my Dad? LOL! There’s so much more I could say but I ended up posting it on that gossip site you referenced in the latter part of your article. I don’t have much to add, other than thanks for those who also criticized Jezebel, those who can see Jimi’s craziness so clearly and those who called out “the no wedding no womb lady” aka @Christelyn (who commented above and received a “thumbs down” from me) because she spends most of her time cultivating a “movement” that shames women (but comes with great music with which we can gyrate our pelvises! Thanks, Christelyn!).
It bears repeating that as a Womanist and a Black Woman, I strongly believe a reintroduction to the female Divine is EXTREMELY important to help rectify the entire imbalance in the universe.
Overall, great job, Jeff! Are you on Twitter?
Jimi Izreel is a contributor to Michele Martin’s usually awesome NPR program, “Tell Me More.” Well, if Lisa Simone had to lose her show for supporting OWS-related organizations and events, NPR needs to take a good long look at this clown’s job security, too. And I think we should let them know it.
So I guess Jimi doesn’t have a son. Oh, sorry, several sons.
I never happened to read your blog before (have followed a link from manboobz), but for that one article alone it goes on my blogroll.
This whole case (and the Jezebel post in particular) is a prime example of our completely screwed up attitudes towards female AND male sexuality. It makes me feel sick and angry and sad if I think about what this girl has to go through.
I’ve got one question though: why do you keep on using her full name (or did I miss anything and AC it is a pseydonym? In which case, ignore this paragraph.)? I guess it would be pretty much a symbolic gesture by now to try and keep her name out of the discussion, but still…
This aricle is extremely good. Kudos to the author for saying things that are so obvious yet nobody says them.
I couldn’t believe that the kids who published the video online aren’t held responsible but everyone is blaming and shaming “Amber Cole”.
This is something I don’t understand. WHY the sexual act is shamed but the violation of privacy is ignored as something completely irrelevant and the blame for the situation is put on the person who didn’t know was recorded? Did she know she was recorded? Did she give her consent to be recorded? Did she give her consent for the video to be uploaded?
We don’t know this (though I assume she didn’t, based on the information I have we have already online), we can only assume. And… oh boy, did people assume…
The whole shaming is horrible. Teens enganing in sex acts is nothing new. However the issue here is that some dude thinks that he knows the girl, knows her family and uses it as a way to bash women and feminists and mothers everywhere, going on the MRA bandwagon about poor fathers without rights. It’s obvious he doesn’t care about what happened to the girl or doesn’t see it as something hurting her. It hurts his ideas how women should behave. His issue is not that a girl has been violated. It’s about women being sexual and making sex and making bad decisisions while being kids.
He doesn’t ask the important questions… he just rants and accuses feminism in racism and completely misses the point of slut-walk. Also… he slutshames, first a 14 year old girl, then implies it’s her mother’s fault, because the father doesn’t have an active role (pure speculation), then slutshames white women and black women as a whole…
The “I am Amber Cole’s father” disgusts me on so many levels but mainly, because it doesn’t care at all about any other actions besides the actions of “Amber”… again we are shown that the only person that will come under scrutiny will be the girl involved and she will be blamed for everything… the boys will be boys and the issue here is not that someone thought it’s OK to violate the privacy of someone else but that a person dared to engage in sexual contact with another human being.
Yes, I think 14 year old is young for sexual relations. But by saying that somehow Kim Cardashian … whoever that is, is responsible that little girls know about blowjobs, it incredibly stupid. They know about blowjobs and sex, because from the start girls and women are sexualised on every step and corner since they are born. We are bombarded daily with hundres examples of super-sexualised women and women’s bodies from everywhere – books, magazines, movies, tv series, ads… everywhere.
Sex is a normal part of our lives but our society is obsessed with it.
But… this dude misses the point so hard that I think it is deliberate and maliscious then purely unintentional.
I have expressed my admiration for this essay on several blogs, Facebook, & Twitter. It seems to be flawless.
A little history not every one on this thread might know. Jimi’s essay was Jezebel’s second attempt to address the Amber Cole situation. The first was a heart-felt but not rigorously feminist essay by Christelyn Karazin that was written for Madame Noire and republished at Jezebel.
This first essay made points about the Black community’s general lack of protection of women and female children, and the lack of expectation of men and boys to take responsibility for their own misogyny and sexual misbehavior. Further, mainstream and Black media conspire to shame, devalue, and hyper-sexualize BW. Amber was either something to be consumed (by watching and sharing the video) or something to be despised. There was almost no concern over her well-being.
I’m bringing this up because what happened next set the scene for Izreal piece to show. The reaction initially in the comments over at Jezebel to Christelyn’s essay, never intended for Jezebel, was obsessive criticism by a set of White middle-class feminists over C’s complaint that the men were not protecting (like Jeff has done) Amber as one of their women. Men protecting women was a trigger concept for the critics because in their mind it implied women were weak and must trade autonomy for protection. Everything about Amber’s exploitation was ignored. Once again almost no concern over her well-being.
A backlash by several BW commenters and their allies called them on it. It got ugly. It was made very clear that White privilege was allowing some critics to disregard Black women’s context, and not value Amber.
If Jezebel then self-consciously chose Izreal’s essay to increase controversy, that would be terrible. But there is another possibility, quite different but just as disturbing. Could it be (just an alternative theory) that Jezebel is just SO clueless that they reacted to the spanking that they received from the minority-conscious group of commenters, that Jezebel went seeking a “contextually appropriate” essay in the most unreflective way possible by going back to the Black blogosphere again to look for something, anything, by a Black man that purported concern for Amber. They see that Jimi, an NPR talking head, has a following amongst both Black men and women. Madame Noire’s Alexis Garrett Stodghill thinks Jimi’s essay (originally published on his own site) is wonderful, after all. And, let’s face it, there was not really anything else out there being put out by Black men that was sympathetic to Amber.
Sure, the essay might have felt dodgy, but hey, must be that inscrutable Black context thing again. And it criticizes White privilege arrogance, so it’s, you know, a Mea Culpa act for Jezebel to republish it.
Sigh.
Utterly, totally, clueless. IF the editors at Jezebel read and study Jeff’s article, they might learn something. I’m not sure they have the imagination.
Thank you for writing this. Izrael sounds like an unrepentant douchebag. While I was never videotaped, when I was even younger than Amber Cole I went through something similar, and I was the social leper of my entire middle school. The boy involved got high fives; I was sexually harassed for the next three years because of my newfound reputation, and had no friends. Not once did I ever tell my parents, because at the time I expected them to shame me with some of the same words Izrael is using here, a decade later. It enrages me that anyone could be so callous, and be so caught up in their own hatred of women that they could use a child’s tragedy to further their own nasty agenda.
***
I’m a white woman, and I think of myself as a sex positive feminist. Obviously that doesn’t automatically make me somehow post-racial. I’m not aware of ever buying into the idea that black women risk more when making choices about their sexuality and appearance, but this may be due to a racial/cultural/privilege blind spot on my part. I suppose in my own racial bubble, it hadn’t occurred to me that black women would feel unwelcome or alienated by the slutwalks. If anyone would take a moment to point out some resources on this, especially with regards to Slutwalks being rife with white feminist privilege, I’d like to read them.
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Jeff – thankyou, thankyou, thankyou for posting this. I am a regular reader over at Jezebel, and though I don’t necessarily buy into the whole anti-feminist conspiracy theory bit… (The I am Amber Cole’s father piece didn’t originate there by the way, it was originally on Izrael’s website, I believe.) I really questioned their judgment in posting what seemed to me obviously a bunch of sexist, mysoginist, Nice Guy(tm) trash. I get that I’m white and don’t know what it’s like to be black, I get that Slutwalk has race issues, but man, dude went way too far, especially in blaming the mother. It’s like he just hates women or maybe the entire human race.
@Danna – there is a lot of stuff around about the race issues involved in Slutwalk – I haven’t read much of it because I’m not particularly interested in Slutwalk to begin with, mostly just don’t go in for demonstrations/protests/parades/etc, but here are a couple things:
http://www.peopleofcolororganize.com/activism/slutwalk-whiteness-privilege-sex-trafficking-women-color/
http://www.theroot.com/views/slutwalk-signs
http://www.racialicious.com/2011/10/05/which-women-are-what-now-slutwalk-nyc-and-failures-in-solidarity/
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Thank you so much for illuminating this story for me.
ok, two 14 year old teenagers did what teenagers probably do even if parents or society wanna deny it, if african american or caucasian or whatever makes no difference: one abused the girls dependance, that should be punished, who is jimi iszrael to judge women african american or white or whatever? and who cares about his opinion?
GREAT article. Seriously, this is absolutely spot on.
Love
MacGuffin
“You say what you would do, what you would say, but you have no idea. We are all great parents with other people’s children.”
Says Jimi Izrael, in the letter he wrote PRETENDING TO BE THE PARENT OF SOMEONE ELSE’S CHILD.
@Danna – here is great article (including the comments) about slutwalks and racism: http://crunkfeministcollective.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/i-saw-the-sign-but-did-we-really-need-a-sign-slutwalk-and-racism/
Cheers,
April Q.
Clarence @19: Make up your mind. You insist that the ages of the boys are all over the web, yet you yourself don’t seem to have bothered to check whether they were “past puberty”. If you want to pretend that having -teen after one’s age means one is not a “child”, whether or not one is or isn’t “past puberty”, you go on with your bad self. A fourteen-year-old is still a child. Unless you think that old enough to take eighth grade is old enough, a la Roman Polanski.
The author’s response in Jezebel doesn’t surprise me. Too often, men of a certain “type” (not African American, but self-proclaimed, narcissistic “Good Guys” who have a big enough personality that they can sell their subpar writing) completely miss whatever point they’re trying to make because they’re so busy being “important”. In this particular case, it’s really disgusting that he would use this case to elevate himself. He is not her father. No one cares about him. Ugh.
Clarence at 19:
Since every reference I’ve seen to this incident makes it clear they were all 14, this is disingenuous and/or creepy: while I don’t think it’s what you mean, it comes off as “Im not an ephebopile, but…”
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Ok, I’m a 21 year old white female who has never really suffered from the ‘your only value is sex’ culture…so forgive me if I didn’t get the nuances of this…
But a 14 year old girl is being shamed and condemned basically for failing to make a wise decision, because DUH, she’s a 14 year old of normal intelligence and she lives in the shit-stained dystopia that is Western culture which tells her her only value is in sexually pleasing boys and men…But the subhuman little boys who chose to upload that video all over the net have not had a word said against them outside of intersectionality blogs?
FUCK THIS!! THIS IS HYPOCRISY AT ITS FINEST!
THOSE BOYS should be the ones being shamed. Not her.
I’m so sick of the ‘He’s a stud, she’s a slut’ double standard. SICK. And this is without getting into the fact that she was FOURTEEN and didn’t know better.
Black men and women who are concerned about black men, women, boys and girls, do have a more conservative and traditionalist approach than white dominated American Feminism, which can be more free in its promotion of “slut walks” and rugged invidualist freedom of sexual expression because it is mostly a movement of coddled and priveleged middle – upper middle classers.
This has long been the disconnect between the various streams of American Feminism and African American women.
Now, Jezebel just doesn’t know how to handle the Amber Cole case. If she were a middle-upper middle class white girl than it might be championed as freedom of sexual expression or some such thing.
Not knowing if this is the right approach to take with a 14 year old Black girl, they called in Black writers to deal with it, and both of the pieces, one written by a man, the other by a woman and creator of “No Wedding No Womb” who asks men to be “protectors of women and girls” – both pieces are light years more traditionalist than your ordinary cohort of White Feminist Jezebel writers would have EVER written themselves.
I don’t know if she “knew better,” whatever that means, but I have, um, a clear personal interest in destigmatizing fellatio and don’t want to present that as the factor in making it acceptable.
I’m a little frustrated because I half agree with you — the boys should be shamed, Amber Cole should not because she did nothing wrong — but at the same time I don’t like the defense “she didn’t know what she was doing” both because it perpetuates one of the bigger fucked-up attitudes about sex in our culture and because it suggests that she needs defending to begin with.
Sorry, miscommunication on my part!
It’s not the fellatio itself I’m on about there. It’s the fact that she did it with someone filming her (this is assuming the act was even consensual).
I won’t comment on the race aspect because honestly, I am not qualified on that subject. As I said, I am a young white women, and I don’t really have experience of those issues. But I wouldn’t say a white middle class girl was simply asserting freedom of sexual expression by fellating someone. I wouldn’t say that about anyone, white, black or any of the other races. If she were the one receiving some clearly consensual act, then yes.
But a girl fellating a boy seems less about free sexuality and more about the girl trying to please the boy, given the current culture…
” the boys should be shamed, Amber Cole should not because she did nothing wrong ”
Really? Public sex, and that too on school grounds is “nothing wrong”?
The ones who should be shamed here are the parents of all the kids involved for not instilling common sense, common decency and common morals into their kids .
Of course there is a chance that the parents did instill that, or at least a few, or one of them did, and the kids still went ahead and created this hot mess, in which case we have to look at why on earth would these kids even THINK about doing this.
When I was 14 I didn’t even know what a bj was, what to speak of planning to film one on school grounds.
This whole hot mess points to the inevitable outcome of allowing society and culture to degrade to unfathomable depths.
Yet another reason to home school my kids.
Speaking as someone who has homeschooled her kids, I’m amused at the idea that homeschooling magically protects children from bad behavior and that not knowing what oral sex is at age 14 is a clear marker of morality. I mean, I knew what bourbon was when I was 14, but that didn’t mean I ever drank it.
I never said homeschooling protects kids from all bad behaviour, but in my experience it has lessened the negative influence on highly impressionable minds, for my kids anyway, can’t speak for anyone else’s.
I was fortunate that at 14 my outlook was alot more innocent than many kids at the same age today. I experienced a happy, healthy, innocent and long childhood thanks to the way my 2 very involved, attentive and loving parents raised us.
If I can do just half for my kids that they have done for me and my siblings, I will feel that I have parented well.
Well, don’t beat yourself up when you find out that you can be the world’s best parent and your kids can nonetheless turn out imperfectly.
“the boys should be shamed, Amber Cole should not because she did nothing wrong ”
What?! This little girl wouldn’t know right from wrong if either bit her on the ass! Why? Nobody taught her. This is what we get when we do not teach children right from wrong, and punish them when they do wrong.
All of the kids involved in this, I don’t even need to know their details. I can tell you EXACTLY what type of “households” they come from.
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Why is innocence good? The only explanation I’m seeing is “because you’re more innocent that way.”
CCC, that’s exactly why I refuse to blame the girl.
It is not her fault that she lives in this culture. It is not her fault that nobody taught her how to cultivate self respect.
Innocence is a positive because it allows childhood to progress in a happy way with an optimistic view of the world. We have only a short window of time to take advantage of being provided and cared for and allowed to live our life in a carefree manner with a sense of wonder. Why speed things up with precocious sexuality? And not just that – a precocious sexuality that is completely devoid of any sense of love, caring, respect or responsibility? What is it for? What purpose does it serve? Just so a couple of horny boys can get their’s?
I don’t blame and shame this little girl. I am blaming and shaming her parents for not protecting her and not teaching her right from wrong.
I’ll bet that all of the kids involved in this are from single parent (mom) homes, may possibly not even know who their fathers are, and if they do know who their fathers are, their fathers are a**holes who are not providing them with a positive male role model.
I’m willing to be they were born out of wedlock to parents who were probably not much older than they are now. Kids having kids.
This case is a prime example of why our nation should have heeded the Patrick Moynihan report back in the mid 1960s.
There are just too many unguided and unprotected kids out there.
CCC, I feel like you’re being incredibly judgmental and making a lot of assumptions about this girl’s situation, that you’re not in a position to make. This guy isn’t Amber Cole’s father, and neither are you her mother.
I agree, sex in school is bad and if you find out your kids are engaging in it, you should talk to them about it. But in and of itself, there is nothing “wrong” with a 14 yr old giving another 14 yr old a BJ. Just because you didn’t know what a BJ was at that age, doesn’t make the life experiences of billions of other people somehow immoral or invalid. I started having sex when I was 14, and I can tell you—a decade later, I don’t regret it and am so grateful my parents treated my partner like family. But that’s because my parents respected my sexual agency, and LISTENED to me rather than talked at me in a judgemental way. I had a 2 year relationship with the boy I lost my virginity to, and we practiced safe sex. I think I handled sex at 14 with more maturity than many adults I know who came out of conservative, sex-negative households. If they hadn’t respected me, and blasted me with the hateful bullshit I read in your comments, I probably would have a much unhealthier attitude about sex, deal with it a lot less maturely, and I don’t see any reason why I wouldn’t be right in AC’s shoes…or worse. The fact is, you DON’T know AC’s family situation. And you do NOTHING to save more children from this fate by pretending you do.
If I was in a position to counsel Amber Cole (and I’m not) I’d try to let her know that sex is something fun to enjoy safely and consensually, and not to be used as a tool to manipulate others if that’s indeed what she was trying to do. But whatever her reasons, she’s not a bad person, and ultimately I’d want her to know that she has the right to enjoy her sexuality in ways that are private, without the whole world watching. One mistake doesn’t mark her forever, one mistake doesn’t mean she has to wear a red letter A on her chest forever. She doesn’t deserve what happened to her. And it’s attitudes like yours, CCC, that in my opinion contribute to the slut-shaming “lets humiliate this girl for being such a slut” mentality of her filmer, and to the attitudes of the people who then spread the video all over the internet.
Without clearly understanding her reasons for giving a blowjob to another boy (and really, who’s business is it?) saying that the mere fact that she’s sexually active means she has no self respect is a horrible thing to say where people who have unjustly been shamed for being sexual as children can read it.
“CCC, I feel like you’re being incredibly judgmental”
You got that right!
I’ll just that you’re a white woman with no experience and insight whatsoever into the world of African American girls and women.
That’s the big disconnect in Feminism and why many of us cannot understand your approach to precioucious sexuality, and why a Black woman founded “No Wedding, No Womb” and why a Black man wrote “I am Amber Cole’s Father”.
They get it.
You don’t.
Move on.
CCC, you haven’t answered any of the points Danna made. You talk about race but whatever race she is she’s also a member of society and the same issues that affect all girls because they are girls affect her. We were not talking about race, we were talking about sex and self-respect and boundaries and to be honest I think it’s a bit disingenuous of you to use race as an excuse to tell people to shut up.
I agree with Danna. Sex per se doesn’t mean you don’t have self respect. It’s wrong that kids are encultured into being sexual before they are ready but it’s every bit as wrong to just take a sex-negative stance and teach them that sex is bad and they shouldn’t be doing it. To be properly ‘world proofed’ kids need need to learn about sex IN THE CONTEXT of relationships, boundaries, self respect, etc. To know when to say yes to sex and when to realize that someone is not treating them with respect for their personhood and autonomy and when it would be better to say no.
If you are sure you are right, then explain why and answer the points. Stop hiding behind race as an excuse to tell others to shut up.
Jessica, I made several points and I do not know how I could be any clearer.
14 years old is too young to have sex, even if, as in some tribal societies today, youngsters are getting married at that age. I commend that at least they are in a commited and tribal supported marriage at that age, but biologically and psychologically, it is still a few years too young, medically speaking especially as menarch is not the completion of puberty.
As far as a 14 year old African American girl who most likely comes from a government funded single parent home where neither a positive male or female role model is present to teach her about, as you say “boundaries and relationships” (because her “guardians” themselves knows nothing about either), it is setting this child up for all manner of exploitation.
And indeed that is EXACTLY what happened.
Kids at that age need to be spending time with their families and focused on academics. Not roaming about unattended giving blow jobs.
Its beyond ridiculous.
Hey cross culture…where are you getting your assumptions from? And what ivy tower did you escape from?
I’m white and grew up in a middle class affluent neighborhood. Guess what? This stuff was going on with those white middle class girls too. Oh, and they came from religious backgrounds, from two parent and loving homes. The only difference there, was there was no internet to post on then.
I’m not black so I can’t pretend to have the foggiest clue as to what is going on in any black persons life. Where are you getting all this info on what Ambers home life is like? And while you’re so busy demonizing Ambers family…what about the three boys? Opps, forgot about them huh?
Take your privileged and discriminatory views elsewhere. You aren’t helping Amber or anyone else for that matter. god help any daughter of yours who gets caught in a similar situation.
’14 years old is too young to have sex, even if, as in some tribal societies today, youngsters are getting married at that age. I commend that at least they are in a commited and tribal supported marriage at that age, but biologically and psychologically, it is still a few years too young, medically speaking especially as menarch is not the completion of puberty.’
How is it too young if she is:
– A sexual being with her own informed desires
– Having safe, genuinely consensual sex with someone of the same age?
‘As far as a 14 year old African American girl who most likely comes from a government funded single parent home where neither a positive male or female role model is present to teach her about, as you say “boundaries and relationships” (because her “guardians” themselves knows nothing about either), it is setting this child up for all manner of exploitation. ‘
You’re making assumptions when you don’t actually know anything about this. Save the judgements for when you have actual facts to go on.
‘Kids at that age need to be spending time with their families and focused on academics. Not roaming about unattended giving blow jobs.’
So young people should simply be prevented from having any sort of sex no matter how consensual and safe, because they should be studying instead?
Part of growing up is learning to deal with one’s sexuality.
For way too many people on this planet, let alone this continent, part of growing up means learning to negotiate a path through often hostile environments. If you can shelter your kids that’s great, but at the age of fourteen, you have to have discussed with your children the realities of the life they will find themselves in, given them some options on how to cope, given them the guidelines you want to see them follow and then loosen the reins a bit.
Keeping them at home under the constant watch of parents does little good. Kids need to explore and make mistakes (if it was a mistake on Ambers part and not something else). Its how we all learn. Amber seems to have been caught in the worst case scenario, most kids aren’t. They screw up, the parent reins them in a bit and then they go off to try again. Sheltering your kids too much leaves them way too vulnerable as adults and often unable to cope with the realities they will face.
“And while you’re so busy demonizing Ambers family…what about the three boys? Opps, forgot about them huh?”
Not at all. Reread my comments. ALL of these kids are products of a bad upbringing and one that has reached epidemic proportions in the African American community. Patrick Moynihan (a white guy, by the way) got it back in 1965 and issued a warning that if this pathology is not nipped in the bud, it will grow to unprecedented proportions, and indeed it has. You can read the Moynihan Report online for free.
I choose to model my family on the template of the “model minority” here in the US – Asian families. They get married, stayed married, have kids WITHIN wedlock, their kids socialize primarily with family and with friends in a family setting, the kids focus on academics and do very well, grow up, get married and repeat the cycle with their kids.
In general, with some exeptions, it WORKS. It sure as hell works better than what we Black Americans are doing!
Model minority, indeed!
“So young people should simply be prevented from having any sort of sex no matter how consensual and safe, because they should be studying instead?”
Yes!
You got it! See my above comment about Asian Americans. They are doing just fine. Better than us precocious and promiscuous Black folk.
“Part of growing up is learning to deal with one’s sexuality.”
That’s what masturbation is for. It helped me “learn to deal with my sexuality” from puberty until about the age of 20.
I’m wondering if any of the posters here who have replied to me have kids Amber’s age?
If so, I do not know how you can take such a lassaize fare attitude towards precocious sexuality. I am not of the opinion that sexual satisfaction is of the upmost importance for pubescent school kids. My daughter will get by just fine without knowing how to give a blog job. Kids discover masturbation early on and that’s plenty enough to “satisfy” them.
Teen sexual experimentation is not a human right. There are alot more important things in life, especially at that age.
If you do any reading on neuroscience and sexuality you can understand why, especially for very young people, sexual experiences can affect their brain patterns and the very way that their brain develops, which sets patterns for future behaviour into adulthood.
My African American community has had for several decades more than enough instances of child and teen sex. Alot longer and alot higher % than the Euro American community.
Perhaps now upper middle class Euro American kids can get their freak on and not suffer any negative neurological patterns or emotional breakdowns, not suffer from STDs and unwanted pregnancies, not suffer from having to go on the government dole, and not suffer from not being able to find someone available and willing to marry you, but not so for my African American community.
Besides the neurological and emotional affects, (and those emotional affects appear to bother girls more than boys and you bet your bottom dollar I’m concerned about my little girl’s emotional health), the fact is that no matter how “careful” – pregnancies and especially STIs like HPV can and DO occur. Don’t even get me started on AIDS in the Black community!
We can’t even count on 14 year olds to brush their teeth and do their homework every single night without fail, do we really expect them to wear condoms AND take birth control pills AND wear “damns” meticulously? Why not? Of course a horny 14 year old boy is going to whip out a condom at the spur of the moment on the basketball court and a 14 year old girl is going to fool with a genital contraption! Most definetly!
Life just does not work that way – not in my community at least.
Nope. We’ve had ENOUGH of this hot ghetto mess behaviour and it has completely ruined us as a people.
Over and above whether or not my 14 year old is a “sexual being with her own informed desires”, and “having safe, genuinely consensual sex with someone of the same age”, I’m more concerned with…
How much of a future-time orientation does she have, vs. a present-time orientation? How well does she control her impulses? What attractors is she carrying around in her head regarding men, and how will they influence her?
These factors have a heck of a lot more to do with her life than whether she learns how to get a “boy of the same age” off.
CCC. What exactly is the model Asian family doing that Hispanic, Muslim, white, Hindu, Aboriginal, Christian and for that matter Black families aren’t? I’ve read enough to know that single unwed mothers are a real concern in the Black community, but it seems a long way from saying that the issue is so bad that there’s no Black model of strong, loving families with good values to look up to.
Also, you’ve jumped to the conclusion that Amber and the boys involved are from the ghettos. For all we know, Amber could be from an affluent family. Unless, of course, I missed the part where her address was given out.
It seems to me that talking about the overall trend of how single parent hood affects Black people as a whole is an important discussion to have. To call the situation pathological is extreme, especially as you have given the quote as being from a white guy from 1965. I hope you pardon me from holding his point of view as being suspect. Onerously problematic, is what I’d call how single Black mothers are viewed and the many barriers they must overcome to provide well for their family, independently, and with stability. It seems to me, that Amber and her mother are being slagged based on cruel and counterproductive stereotypes, based on what? We don’t know anything about the family. And even if she and her mother are trapped in poverty and dad is gone, we still don’t know how she was raised, and what support she had in the community she lived in. Are you seriously prepared to hold it against her mother if mom is at work, providing for her daughter who is supposed to be at school, because despite the better teachings of mom, Amber got it into her head to do something unwise? We don’t even know Amber consented to all this.
I respect your opinion on how families should be raised, many people would agree with you. However, in all the time that people have been pointing out the “moral failings” of the Black community, the situation has not improved. I respectfully suggest that perhaps telling people that they are inherently bad for dealing with a crappy hand will continue to not work. Ending the phenomenon of poor Black families requires much than telling Black women to just get married before they get in the sack.
What’s more, I wonder at your focus on the “state of the Black community” and the presumed parenting of Amber,rather than Ambers well being, the fact that there’s a lot more to be said about the boys involved or that Izreal could so shamelessly denigrate a young woman, her family, her mother in particular and all the while beat his personal little drum about his rights as her not-father.
All of the kids involved in this, I don’t even need to know their details. I can tell you EXACTLY what type of “households” they come from.
Let me just state unequivocally and for the record as a family therapist for 14 years now, who has worked with “out of control” adolescents extensively, you certainly do not know any such thing.
Because I have seen all kinds of behavior from all kinds of kids, from all kinds of families. I have seen kids do appalling things for reasons ranging from mental illness to coercion to attempts to “wake up” neglectful parents to deliberate attempts to “get back” at their parents for being too strict. And I have seen kids involved with the social and legal system who come from every background from poor to rich, from single child to one of seven kids all from different fathers, from most racial and religious backgrounds you can think of.
So the conclusions you draw about this girl and her family from the news reports actually tells nothing whatsoever other than the prejudices you hold about other people and their children.
If you do any reading on neuroscience and sexuality you can understand why, especially for very young people, sexual experiences can affect their brain patterns and the very way that their brain develops, which sets patterns for future behaviour into adulthood.
Also, I’m throwing a big ol’ “CITATION NEEDED” on this, since the only research I’m aware of that might even vaguely resemble this is research on the neuroscience of trauma, and trauma =! sexual activity.
And I’m going to throw another one on the broad brush with which you’re painting “Asian Americans” (which “Asians” would those be? Chinese-Americans? Vietnamese-Americans? Korean-Americans? Thai-Americans?). Come do some work in the SF Bay Area with youth – you’ll see plenty of “Asian American” kids who have issues with drugs, violence, STDs, etc. etc.
Elusis: The Good Men Projects have run several articles where it is asserted that orgasms transforms the brains and that internet porn and masturbation (or more precisely orgams) may even alter a persons sexual preferences (http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/can-you-trust-your-johnson/).
Now, I am not convinced at all by their articles, in fact I find it to be a total hogwash, but this idea that the brain is changed by orgasms and porn (and hence sex) is gaining some traction.
I think most of us are at least somewhat familiar with the horrible things many people, most of them white, say about black female sexuality.
I think that’s what CCC is hearing a lot of here. And I think this is understandable, though perhaps incorrect (or, at least, people don’t intend to be saying it, though you know what they say about intent). To say “there’s nothing inherently wrong with a 14-year-old girl having sex” or even “the mere fact that someone is 14 is an insufficient basis for determining if there’s anything wrong with her having sex” about a black girl can be seen to play into it.
I’m only qualified to speak for myself (though it would surprise me if mythago and Jessica Metaniera completely disagree with me on the broad strokes of this): I didn’t mean “Amber Cole knew from sex because, well, you know what Those People are like” — though again, it’s not an interpretation wholly at odds with what I said. I think more 14-year-olds who aren’t asexual know at least a little about sex than don’t, especially if they haven’t been purposely sheltered. As such, I think they are capable of somewhat forming an understanding of what it means to give a blowjob, and make as mature a decision on that as on anything else (not that all will or should choose to do so, and not that Amber Cole necessarily chose to do so). There are thriving societies where the age of consent is under 14; the notion that teenagers are too young for sex is not universal even in the modern world, and is based in culture rather than nature. But all that is not, in my mind, specific to black girls.
(I have Manboobz in another tab; I cannot tell you what a breath of fresh air it is to be in a disagreement with someone who’s on the same basic side. CCC may be wrong, but at least zie isn’t a horrible human being.)
That said,
CCC, 70:
I thought you said you were innocent.
CCC:
‘Yes! ‘
What’s your reasoning for this?
Why do you think that even safe, fully consensual, egalitarian sex is something teens should be forcibly kept away from? Bear in mind we let young people take risks higher than sex every day. Teen girls are allowed to do gymnastics, despite the risk of flipping yourself on your head and snapping your spine. Boys are allowed to do collision sports, though these come with physical risks. What makes sex so special?
‘That’s what masturbation is for. It helped me “learn to deal with my sexuality” from puberty until about the age of 20.’
And what about learning about relationships – learning to have them? Do you even have an age when you think sex is acceptable and what is your reason for picking that age?
‘Teen sexual experimentation is not a human right. There are alot more important things in life, especially at that age.’
Firstly, that’s a null argument. Many things are not rights but that doesn’t mean it is okay to take them away! This can of Red Bull I’m currently drinking is not a right but that doesn’t mean someone older than me may come up and take it away.
‘If you do any reading on neuroscience and sexuality you can understand why, especially for very young people, sexual experiences can affect their brain patterns and the very way that their brain develops, which sets patterns for future behaviour into adulthood.’
What? You’re trying to argue that safe, consensual sex affects a teen’s brain for life, in a negative way? I’m going to want to see some evidence for that!!
‘We can’t even count on 14 year olds to brush their teeth and do their homework every single night without fail, do we really expect them to wear condoms AND take birth control pills AND wear “damns” meticulously? Why not? Of course a horny 14 year old boy is going to whip out a condom at the spur of the moment on the basketball court and a 14 year old girl is going to fool with a genital contraption! Most definetly!’
Plenty of us had sex as teens and were responsible. The various Scandinavian countries seem to manage this just fine.
‘Nope. We’ve had ENOUGH of this hot ghetto mess behaviour and it has completely ruined us as a people.’
How, exactly, do you reason that teen sex somehow affected and damaged an entire racial group?
“I think more 14-year-olds who aren’t asexual know at least a little about sex than don’t, especially if they haven’t been purposely sheltered. As such, I think they are capable of somewhat forming an understanding of what it means to give a blowjob, and make as mature a decision on that as on anything else (not that all will or should choose to do so, and not that Amber Cole necessarily chose to do so). There are thriving societies where the age of consent is under 14; the notion that teenagers are too young for sex is not universal even in the modern world, and is based in culture rather than nature. But all that is not, in my mind, specific to black girls.”
Yes! This is what I have been getting at.
I am not referring to race when I say she didn’t know better. I am referring to a culture that affects almost all girls in Western society, white, black, mixed, whatever. The specifics may vary from one racial group to another, I would not know, but what is near universal is the idea that boys are sexual and girls are there to please them.
“All of the kids involved in this, I don’t even need to know their details. I can tell you EXACTLY what type of “households” they come from.”
@Elusis,
“Let me just state unequivocally and for the record as a family therapist for 14 years now, who has worked with “out of control” adolescents extensively, you certainly do not know any such thing.”
LOL. Let me just state unequivocally and for the record as a Black woman who for 38 years now, who has lived amongst Black people all across the United States who has lived and breathed within the plathology of the consistent family breakdown, out of wedlock births, missing fathers, baby mama drama, multi-generational single mother households, drug dealing, STD spreading, truancy, thuggery, pimping, ho-ing and school yard blowing, I MOST CERTAINLY DO KNOW SUCH A THING!
The statistical majority of African American babies born today are born out of wedlock to single mothers who naturally go on welfare, if they are not already on it. Go to any Black majority neighborhood and live and breath the statistic for yourself. Its certainly not hidden away.
“I’ve read enough to know that single unwed mothers are a real concern in the Black community, but it seems a long way from saying that the issue is so bad that there’s no Black model of strong, loving families with good values to look up to. ”
That would be my family. However, we are not the majority.
Jessica,
“Plenty of us had sex as teens and were responsible. The various Scandinavian countries seem to manage this just fine.”
— You did not just suggest that the African American situation is comparable to Scandinavia, did you???
Me,
‘Nope. We’ve had ENOUGH of this hot ghetto mess behaviour and it has completely ruined us as a people.’
Jessica,
How, exactly, do you reason that teen sex somehow affected and damaged an entire racial group?
— Why don’t you start by reading the 1965 Patrick Moynihan report. After that, travel do your nearest Black majority neighborhood and stay for a few days getting to know the children and their stories, and the stories of their single moms, and the stories of the moms of those single moms.
See, like I said, this has always been a huge disconnect between white middle – upper middle class dominated American Feminism and Black women.
This is why you are not getting the tragedy of Amber’s situation. And I’m not just talking about because it was filmed with or without her consent and then put on internet.
The tragedy that there is yet another little Black girl, due to no correct upbringing, who is putting herself and her entire life at risk – YET AGAIN.
You just don’t know what its like for us.
‘– You did not just suggest that the African American situation is comparable to Scandinavia, did you???’
No. I made the point that teen sex itself is not the problem, other more complex social issues are. Otherwise any country that was open with young people about sex, treated them as competent people and didn’t try and stop them having sex would be in the toilet.
‘Why don’t you start by reading the 1965 Patrick Moynihan report. After that, travel do your nearest Black majority neighborhood and stay for a few days getting to know the children and their stories, and the stories of their single moms, and the stories of the moms of those single moms. ‘
So now you want me to do the work of finding your evidence for you.
And you want to blame single mothers?
Go here. http://jessicawolverinemetaneira.blogspot.com/2011/05/but-youre-damaged-arent-you-of-course.html
‘See, like I said, this has always been a huge disconnect between white middle – upper middle class dominated American Feminism and Black women.’
I’m neither American, nor all that middle class…
‘This is why you are not getting the tragedy of Amber’s situation. And I’m not just talking about because it was filmed with or without her consent and then put on internet.
The tragedy that there is yet another little Black girl, due to no correct upbringing, who is putting herself and her entire life at risk – YET AGAIN.
You just don’t know what its like for us.’
Okay, then.
Let’s talk about her simply AS A GIRL and leave the racial stuff for conversations in which all parties are well versed in that issue.
How does simply trying to stop teens having sex change a culture which causes incidents like hers? I’d wager that it wouldn’t. You wouldn’t take away the idea that sex is something boys are entitled to and girls provide if they want to have any value.
Pillow,
“CCC. What exactly is the model Asian family doing that Hispanic, Muslim, white, Hindu, Aboriginal, Christian and for that matter Black families aren’t?”
I’m smacking my head in frustration. I already listed the things Asians are doing that Black people aren’t.
First and foremost – GETTING MARRIED!
“Ending the phenomenon of poor Black families requires much more than telling Black women to just get married before they get in the sack. ”
But it STARTS with that.
Jess,
“How does simply trying to stop teens having sex change a culture which causes incidents like hers? I’d wager that it wouldn’t. You wouldn’t take away the idea that sex is something boys are entitled to and girls provide if they want to have any value.”
I can speak from my own example. I was kept very busy with studies and familiy as a kid. My parents (2 in the same household, thankgod, rare where I’m from), instilled in me the importance of being in an adult committed relationship for sex and that sex is something shared by two committed adults in love with each other. They personally modeled this example for me and now my husband and I are modeling that example for our daughters, and son.
Never did I get the idea that sex is something that boys are entitled to and girls must give to have value. Neither do my kids have this idea. Why? We’ve all been modeled to by two loving and committed parents.
It starts with the family. Let’s get back to families. That means a mom AND a dad. In the same house. Peacefully working out all problems and living to model a clear life for their children.
Love. Ethics. Morality. Discipline. Rules. Commitment. Purpose. And sacrifice for the greater good.
Thanks for the perspective.
I do agree that two parents are better than one but I don’t think this alone solves social problems. I know plenty of nuclear, mom-and-dad families who nonetheless turn out boys who feel entitled to blow jobs and think of girls as things who are there to give them what they are entitled to.
I also don’t think simply stressing sex as something you ONLY do when fully adult and committed long term is helpful either. For every person like yourself who DID follow that ideology there are a whole handful of young people who think ‘LOL! Wait until I’m 20+? Yeah, right’ and go and do it without protection and without the knowledge they need to stay safe.
I’m all for more solid families. I’m all for both mothers and fathers being QUALITY mothers and fathers. I don’t though think this alone solves the social viruses currently running rampant.
I should add that I meant two QUALITY parents are better than one. Obviously better to have a single mom than one mom and one drunken abusive father.
“I think more 14-year-olds who aren’t asexual know at least a little about sex than don’t, especially if they haven’t been purposely sheltered. As such, I think they are capable of somewhat forming an understanding of what it means to give a blowjob, and make as mature a decision on that as on anything else”
What a bunch of jibberish!
“asexual”
– what the heck does that mean?
“somewhat forming an understanding”?
– Somewhat? Seriously?
“and make as mature a decision on that as on anything else”
– as mature? as mature as what – “somewhat” understanding?
No wonder kids today are so lost and confused. The adults are even more so!
“especially if they haven’t been purposely sheltered”
Two loving and attentive parents focusing on their child’s academics and involving them in family centered recreation and teaching them that sex is for an adult committed relationship translates as “sheltered” these days?
sheltered from what? The hot mess of confusion you have to offer?
sign me up!
My apologies CCC, for creating such frustration through misunderstanding. At the moment, I am occupied with my family, however, as soon as I’m done I will read the souce you cited regarding the need to curb the single parent phenomenon in the Black community. I have read it previously, however, I wish to reach an understanding without undue frustration and I require a refresher on the article.
Part of the issue for me, is that at the start your comments sounded remarkably like those I hear in white upper class circles…and the underlying thoughts of of condescension at the very least. My apologies for the knee jerk reaction and projection on to you. I think I see where you are coming from, and I would be eager to hear how you propose to meet certain challenges that spring to my mind.
CCC, “Asexual” basically means someone who is just plain not interested in sex/does not become sexually attracted to people. It’s a real word, and a real thing. Here’s a link to the Wikipedia article if you want a more thorough description.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality
CCC:
1) I wonder what you would make of the family I counseled at one point: African-American, two-parent, both working, homeowners, middle or upper middle-class, Mom college-educated and dad a union member, only the one child on whom they focused tremendous attention, time, and money, and set very strict rules. Not a “ghetto” family (which is a really classist term, by the way, with racist overtones as well.)
And then he stole Mom’s credit card from her purse, bought himself a first-class plane ticket to LA with a limo to pick him up on either end, ordered the presidential suite at a first-class hotel with a bottle of champagne to be delivered, etc. etc. At 13.
So I would say you can’t tell what kind of family a kid comes from based on their behavior.
2) I’m not a mod but this is generally a place where calling other posters’ comments “gibberish” and mocking concepts like asexuality is OK.
pillow,
“Also, you’ve jumped to the conclusion that Amber and the boys involved are from the ghettos. For all we know, Amber could be from an affluent family. Unless, of course, I missed the part where her address was given out.”
When I used the term “hot ghetto mess behaviour” I meant the behaviour, not neccessarily the area. Its a phrase we African Americans use to describe stereotypical ghetto behaviour, whether its conducted in the ghetto, the suburbs or a Beverly Hills mansion.
“Part of the issue for me, is that at the start your comments sounded remarkably like those I hear in white upper class circles…and the underlying thoughts of of condescension at the very least. ”
If they are condescending to this type of behaviour that’s ok. This type of behaviour, and it is a pathology in my opinion, should be marginalized and not promoted in society as “liberating”.
If you want to know what would be “liberating” and “freeing” for Black American kids, it would be to be born into a family of two loving and committed parents who planned for them. To be raised with an emphasis on family life and academics. To be modeled what it means to be in a functional and happy relationship with a spouse. To be given clear boundaries and guidelines and discipline. To be taught that sex is to be shared between to loving and committed adults.
These seemingly “regressive” values by today’s standard would be refreshingly liberating for African American kids but too many of them are born into the exact opposite of any of that.
Then come the statistics. African American boys selling drugs and committing violent crime, landing them in institutions until they are old enough to go to a real prison. African American girls getting knocked up by thugs and dealers. Babies growing up with fathers in jail and mothers on welfare.
CCC – “Two loving and attentive parents focusing on their child’s academics and involving them in family centered recreation and teaching them that sex is for an adult committed relationship translates as “sheltered” these days?”
No, not necessarily. But one common thread in all your posts is that there is no mention of any social interaction outside the family circle. Now, I don’t believe that you think 14 year old kids should be prevented from interacting with others, but it doesn’t seem to me like you value interaction between 14 year olds and their age peers. And that is extremely important – a good family environment can teach children good values, but it can’t teach them the social confidence and independence they will need later in life.
It’s important to raise one kid’s to make good decisions, but it’s also important to give them the opportunity to actually make decisions, as well, while they’re still developing. Otherwise, they’ll become adults who have no idea how to make choices – I see that far too often amongst my students, 20 year old kids – bright, good kids, who have good academic skills – who either panic and get paralyzed when they have to make real decisions in their life, or make a string of bad choices because it’s the first time when they don’t have someone with them to tell them what to do.
It’s not that family centred recreation and academic skills are not important – they most certainly are – and they’re a good foundation. But they are only part of what it takes to grow confident adults that can properly implement the lessons of their parents. I hope that the fact that you’re not talking about the rest of it isn’t an indication that you don’t think it’s valuable.
re: asexual. I was wondering if the commenter was using that word in a way to mean teens who were not engaging in sexual activity with other people. Therefore I asked.
There are some people under the impression that celibates are asexual when they are not, though some may be.
Thanks for clarifying. My apologies, since your only reaction was “what the heck does that mean” I assumed you didn’t know what it meant.
As far as interacting with people outside of the family and gaining “confidence” – don’t know where you got the idea my kids don’t interact outside of the family. I said, “family centered recreation” and “socializing with friends in a family setting”.
They have a lot of cousins around their own ages so they get plenty of peer association.
People often compliment on how mature my children behave. I credit that to the fact that they are interacting regularly with adults in independent research settings and are well travelled and mixing with people other than just same-age peers.
They’ve got no confidence issues nor are they lacking in personal decision making skills. They take evening adult drama and debate classes at the local community college.
I see my neighbors kids constantly confused due to both same age peer pressure and media pressure. My opinion is that they are not getting enough ADULT association in their lives. When they come over to hang out with our kids, my husband or I are in the house. Am I depriving my kids of their human right to explore their sexuality by being around? Nonsense!
Just to make it clear – I wasn’t talking about your kids and what social interactions they have. I was responding to your posts and your stated ideas about education. I am perfectly willing to believe that you are raising your kids in a manner that involves more than is immediately apparent from your words.
“What do you mean by that?” is asking. “What the heck does that mean?” is either denying it exists, asserting your moral superiority to someone on the basis that they use words you don’t understand, or both.
I don’t think 14-year-olds are going to completely understand adult concepts because complete understanding requires experience (in addition to maturity).
What I meant by “sheltered” was keeping kids from learning anything about sex; I suspect you’re in favor of this, I’m not.
“As mature a decision about that as anything else” — well, we don’t typically let 14-year-olds live on their own for a reason. Young teenagers aren’t the greatest decision-makers in general, which is not to say they typically make bad decisions