I express my heartfelt appreciation for the gestures of goodwill and support from our Jewish friends and colleagues. Your support is a reflection of the great history of mutual cooperation and understanding that Jewish and Muslim civilizations have shared in the past, and remains a testament to the enduring success of our continuing dialogue and dedication to upholding religious freedom, tolerance and cooperation among us all as Americans.
—Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, one of the group planning to build a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero in New York. “The pro-Israeli lobby JStreet collected over 10,000 signatures in support of the center that were delivered to the Landmarks Preservation Commission ahead of its vote on the Cordoba House.”
To which I say: Go Team Jew!
Mayor Bloomberg gave a good speech:
“Let us not forget that Muslims were among those murdered on 9/11, and that our Muslim neighbors grieved with us as New Yorkers and as Americans. We would betray our values and play into our enemies’ hands if we were to treat Muslims differently than anyone else. In fact, to cave to popular sentiment would be to hand a victory to the terrorists, and we should not stand for that.
“For that reason, I believe that this is an important test of the separation of church and state as we may see in our lifetimes, as important a test. And it is critically important that we get it right.
“On Sept. 11, 2001, thousands of first responders heroically rushed to the scene and saved tens of thousands of lives. More than 400 of those first responders did not make it out alive. In rushing into those burning buildings, not one of them asked, ‘What God do you pray to?’ (Bloomberg’s voice cracks here a little as he gets choked up.) ‘What beliefs do you hold?’
“The attack was an act of war, and our first responders defended not only our city, but our country and our constitution. We do not honor their lives by denying the very constitutional rights they died protecting. We honor their lives by defending those rights and the freedoms that the terrorists attacked.
“Of course, it is fair to ask the organizers of the mosque to show some special sensitivity to the situation, and in fact their plan envisions reaching beyond their walls and building an interfaith community. But doing so, it is my hope that the mosque will help to bring our city even closer together, and help repudiate the false and repugnant idea that the attacks of 9/11 were in any ways consistent with Islam.
“Muslims are as much a part of our city and our country as the people of any faith. And they are as welcome to worship in lower Manhattan as any other group.
It’s “Bloomberg,” not “Bloomburg.”
Thanks! I’ve corrected the post.
Sometimes I think the goal of the Republicans is to destroy NYC. First they pass all those brain dead Homeland Security laws harassing tourists and discouraging immigrants (both of which NY depends on for its economic survival) and now discouraging growth in lower Manhattan.
The site of the proposed mosque is currently a vacant building and has been vacant for at least the last 2 years. Right now it is doing little positive for anyone except maybe the roaches and represents a hazard. Why would anyone want to prevent it from turning into an active space occupied by people instead of a breeding ground for rats and fire hazard? Why not turn it into an active, vital space for lower Manhattanites which might encourage more tourists (much like the church down the street)? It seems that Sarah Palin and her ilk, like the 9/11 attackers and unlike the vast majority of Islamic people, hate New York. Probably for our freedoms.
Dianne, seemingly a majority of local New Yorkers are opposed to the project as well. Do they hate themselves?
The site of the proposed mosque is currently a vacant building and has been vacant for at least the last 2 years.
The building is vacant because its main tenant closed its doors after the building was effectively trashed when pieces of airplanes fell on it, demolishing a couple of stories.
If the building couldn’t be redeemed by its owners as a commercial property after this disaster then the city or the 9/11 commission or someone should have bought it and turned it into a memorial park of some kind.
seemingly a majority of local New Yorkers are opposed to the project as well
What do you base this statement on?
The building is vacant because its main tenant closed its doors after the building was effectively trashed when pieces of airplanes fell on it, demolishing a couple of stories.
Um…no. Actually, I made a misstatement. The building is not empty. The section of the building that the mosque is planned to move into is empty but the rest of the building is in use. I bought breakfast in the grocery store right next to the abandoned space to be used for the mosque not an hour ago. The building may have taken structural damage during the WTC attacks-I’m not sure. It’s not particularly high, maybe 7 stories or so, and there are taller buildings nearer the WTC that are still standing and in use. More likely the last tenent left because they couldn’t afford the rent and it’s been sitting there unused because no one wanted it-likely too expensive.
If the building couldn’t be redeemed by its owners as a commercial property after this disaster then the city or the 9/11 commission or someone should have bought it and turned it into a memorial park of some kind.
Sorry, but all lower Manhattan is not a WTC fetish site. There are other things going on in the neighborhood and the residents would appreciate it not being turned into WTCLand: the amusement park just because some midwestern Republicans want a place to go and feel righteously angry. Given the way Palin and her ilk spit on NY and clearly hate it for its freedoms (ie immigrants getting ahead through hard work, right to abortion into the second trimester if need be, the rights of gays to live openly and safely, etc) their display of “sadness” is disgusting enough without giving them more opportunities to display it.
Apologies for the double post, but I want to add that a mosque near the WTC site would be a subtle way to give the finger to the attackers and their sympathizers: It’s saying, “Fuck you, not only did you not destroy the US or NYC, you didn’t even turn us all into haters. We’ll build a mosque where we damn well please and there’s nothing you can do about it!” to them. Islamic people are as much New Yorkers as Jews, Christians, Hindi, atheists, Zoroastrians, Wiccan, etc. and have as much right as anyone to build a mosque wherever they can afford the real estate and file a reasonable building plan.
If you’re right and the majority of New Yorkers or the majority of people living in lower Manhattan disagree then that demonstrates that the terrorists were partially effective: they succeeded in causing hate where it didn’t exist before and provoking long term damage to the economy of the city. So I’m really hoping your claim is wrong. I’d like to think better of my neighbors.
What do you base this statement on?
July 1 polling, 52-31 against. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-03/ground-zero-mosque-plans-move-forward-after-new-york-landmarks-panel-vote.html
From 538:
This encapsulates the dissembling that is the core of Rauf’s dawa:
You mean, like the history of jizya tax on Jews and other Dhimmi, restriction of Jews to ghettos, forced conversions, expulsions, and pogroms?
Rauf’s organization is funded by the radical elements of the Malaysian government, and began a “Sharia Index” to track how compatible/accommodating Western societies are to Sharia law.
Sorry, the multiculti “respect all cultures” mantra does not work here… thank goodness most New Yorkers have not lost their senses.
I thought it wasn’t a mosque?
Interestingly, although the Quinnipiac poll showed a majority of New York City residents opposed to the project, a 46-36 plurality of Manhattanites were in favor of it.
14% had no opinion? Disgraceful! New Yorkers always have an opinion*, especially Manhattanites…maybe their opinion was “none of my business what someone else wants to do with their property”.
Also note that the poll Robert linked to was skewed by a 73% oppose in Staten Island. SI is practically New Jersey. The bottom line seems to be that those least effected are most likely to oppose it and vice versa.
*In case it isn’t clear, I’m being sarcastic here. Actually, I had no strong opinion about it-whatever anyone wants to put in their own building is fine with me as long as they build to code-until I realized that if the project went through it would get rid of one VERY ugly bit of building. Plus I like the community center idea. We’re a bit undersupplied as far as community centers go.
I will say this: it will also draw protestors, who are no less disruptive and dangerous just because they’re wrong.
The same poll found that 46% of people who live in Manhattan favor the mosque being built, compared to 36% who oppose.
ETA: Sorry, I posted this before seeing that others had already posted the same thing.
So is it your opinion that there has never, ever been mutual cooperation and understanding between Jews and Muslims? The history is 100% negative, and anyone who says that there is a positive history which we should try to emphasize and emulate is a liar?
The “Shariah Index” isn’t something I agree with 100%, for a bunch of reasons, but the intent is pretty clearly to be a liberalizing influence within Islam.
Ben David:
As I said in my comment on the ADL thread, all of this is true. It does not erase those aspects of what used to be called, when I was in Hebrew school–maybe it still is call this–“The Golden Age in Spain.”
I also want to say, though, that it is one thing to give someone like Feisal the benefit of the doubt–which it seems to me, from what I have read so far, that he deserves–and it is quite something else to trust someone blindly. Coalition building, and I think of Cordoba House in that way, requires that each side earn the other’s trust. There is in Muslim history enough precedent for the kinds of things you list above, that I think Feisal and company need to demonstrate, over time, with more than just rhetoric, that they stand against those practices. So far, I haven’t seen any indication that they do not.
I will say this: it will also draw protestors, who are no less disruptive and dangerous just because they’re wrong.
A few days after the 9/11 attacks, I saw several people standing outside a local mosque (about 2 miles away from the WTC) holding signs equating Islam with terrorism and yelling at people going in and out. After a brief and entirely futile attempt to get them to leave, I went to the nearest police officer and told him about the situation. Shortly thereafter, the protesters inciting a riot were gone and the police starting making frequent checks so that none returned. So, the NY police, for all their faults, actually are capable of dealing with protestors, even when they’re white, middle class protestors inciting violence against darker skinned and more marginalized people. I expect they could handle whoever showed up at Cordoba house.
And just in case I’ve left the impression that NYC police are jackbooted thugs who just enjoy tromping on protestors, I might add that a few months later I was the protestor in a (legal) march against Bush’s aggressive wars and not only did the police not interfere, a significant number of them indicated their approval in various ways from smiles and thumbs up to joining in.
Good for J Street, but it would help even more if they supported BDS:
http://mondoweiss.net/2010/07/jeremy-ben-amis-main-argument-against-bds-is-it-doesnt-affirm-israels-right-to-exist-as-jewish-homeland.html
http://mondoweiss.net/2010/06/liberal-zionists-excommunicate-anti-zionists.html
Christians did all of the things to Jews that Ben David complains about wrt Islam (and more), with the exception of calling their crushing financial penalties “dhimmitude”. Funnily, we’re supposed to pretend none of this ever happened because they’re financially supporting Israel, and let’s not inquire too closely as to why.
… which is why everyone applauded the Pope’s instruction to local Polish catholics not to build a monastery at Auschwitz.
Thanks for providing a perfect parallel.
If anything, the connection between the 9-11 site and Islamic triumphalism is stronger and more direct than the Christian cultural influences that contributed to the Holocaust.
Ampersand:
Wouldn’t it be more of a liberalizing influence if it measured… how liberal various Muslim countries are?
Everything in the article you quote points to the Index fostering sharia as a mark of authentic Islamic character. How exactly is that “liberalizing”?
Other reports include the project’s evaluation of other cultures on how “Sharia friendly” they are – again, it’s pretty clear what direction the Index is pushing: imposition/accommodation of Sharia law.
Ben David, it’s all in how they’re defining authentic Islamic character.
Compared to the status quo in the more fundamentalist Islamic countries, that would certainly be a liberalization.
Once again, I’m asking you to start providing links to reasonable sources support your factual claims.