I saw a headline for this story on this evening’s news and had to wait for the full story. A rape awareness campaign aimed at men? A rape awareness campaign that tells men it’s rape if she doesn’t explicitly consent? Sounds like a feminist’s dream come true.
Well, sort of. The first interview in the story was with a man (his identity concealed) who “thought he was having consensual sex” and found himself charged with rape. Was I hoping too much when I thought an item about teaching men not to rape wouldn’t lean on the angle that some poor men get unfairly accused?
The second interview was with a rape victim (identified by name and with her face shown) who hadn’t gone to court because it was her word against her rapist’s. She said that “you can’t stop rape with just a few posters”.
The posters, the campaign, are a promising first step. But oh, what a tiny step towards such a big problem.
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The commercial might be blah, but the sample poster they included with the news story looks pretty good. I’m glad the UK at least is taking the issue of “too drunk for consent” seriously.
I like that sample poster as well. There are a series of bus ads around here (Norfolk, VA) that say something like, “My strength is not for hurting.” I believe they are from http://www.mencanstoprape.org/, which is based out of DC. They’re pro-feminist, according to their site.
First off,I’m a male.When i was brought up you were taught to never lay a hand on a woman,it was your job to protect them.I believe what they want to do with their body is their decission.NO means No not maybe.And if they want to end a pregnancy no one should have anything to say about it.Especially a man!!
Admiral Stockdale? Is that you?
I’ve gone through mencanstoprape’s trainings, and am well familiar with their wonderful “men of strength” campaigns. They are very much a pro-feminist outfit, committed to ending violence against women and girls by changing the attitudes of young men. They work in DC area high schools and have had great success.
What exactly is a “a campaigner against wrongful rape conviction”? And what on earth is one doing in an environment where “only 5.8% of reported rapes in 2004 resulted in a conviction.”?
I dunno. Stuff like this heartens me, but other times I think that our entire cultural construction of consent is so skewed that these campaigns just nibbling around the edges.
I mean, even the poster that is displayed in that article is basically saying “don’t have sex with a drunk woman because you can go to prison.” It’d be nice to see a campaign that tried to shift perceptions on consent from the absence-of-a-negative to a positive, without trying to alter men’s behavior with the threat of prison. One, because I think it’s insulting to a lot of men (the only reason you wouldn’t rape someone is because you’re afraid of getting caught!–true for some, undoubtably, but not true for a lot of men who could still use a new view of consent) and two, because it’s not terribly effective. I mean, campaigns like this probably aren’t going to change the hard-core misogynistic/sociopathic rapists. It’s more aimed at your garden-variety date-rapist who doesn’t really consider what he’s doing to be rape–hell, everyone knows that men pursue and women submit!–so he’s either going to tune this message out, or get defensive.
The Men Can Stop Rape posters are a better example of where I wish we could go, but saying “my strength is not for hurting” also seems to assume that your average joe is aware that *what he’s doing is hurtful.* There was a great thread on Dorcasina’s blog (don’t know the link, sorry!) that got into how the very essence of being privileged is the ability to take your own intentions as more important than the actual, lived experiences of those with less social power than you. The guys who know they’re raping and hurting you aren’t going to be much affected by a raising-awareness poster, I think. And to reach the guys who don’t think of themselves as rapists–because hell, they didn’t *mean* to rape her! they didn’t even know she was that drunk, i swear!–you need something better than this.
Ah, Dorcasina’s blog is at:
http://etaliae.blogspot.com/2006/02/in-which-i-think-about-something-other.html
The fact that a governmental figure said “I believe that we need to start putting the onus onto men and make them aware of their responsibilities” and hoped the campaign would make men “take more responsibility” is indeed a feminist dream come true.
Yes.
The “some poor men get unfairly accused” angle made me want to throw things. Unfortuanately, I think in this case it’s a necessary evil.
I think a lot of the men who are “opportunists” when it comes to sex – the kind of guy who thinks that developing selective hearing when she says “no” is “persuasion”, the ones who aren’t above taking advantage of a woman who is too drunk to consent – honestly don’t see themselves as rapists. The only way that the real seriousness of their actions is ever going to register with them is if somebody thumps them over the head and says, “You, yes YOU could go to jail.”
I feel depressingly optimistic. When Nick says:
My first thought is “babysteps is how you need to go.” Then I think “I’m feeling all happy and optimistic because men are being told rape is wrong.” And how fucked up is everything that that’s a big deal?
Then I hide in a corner for 12 straight hours.
And to further my point – anonymous:
Yes, true, but it still feels like saying “I believe we need to start putting the onus on murderers and have them take responsibility”. Ergh. And then I banged my head into my keyboard.
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this feels like a turning point more than a baby step if this is for real.
remember, it also seemingly took a long time to get attitudes about smoking turned around. but in retrospect, over the course of 30 years (in the U.S. at least), large numbers of people have changed their attitudes from “smoking is tolerable” to “smoking is disgusting”, and society as a whole is now much more aware of the huge social costs.
reducing rape now instead of in 30 years would be better, of course, but it’s better than nothing.
it sounds like a better slogan would be “are you sure it’s not rape? what if it happened to your sister? would it be rape then?” but i don’t think that’s going to happen…not catchy enough. *musing* maybe if they got sting or bono to say it….
Small steps, very small steps. I wrote about what might–and I emphasize the word *might*–be an indication that some small steps have actually been taken in my Blog-Against-Sexism-Day post. The post is about some potentially hopeful signs that I have noticed in my male students in class discussions I have been having about rape in my freshman English class.
it sounds like a better slogan would be “are you sure it’s not rape? what if it happened to your sister? would it be rape then?”
Oh, yes. I like this… something catchy like this.
I agree that attitudes around smoking have changed. However, it’s worth pointing out that didn’t happen by making smoking illegal in order to make everyone aware of how bad it was. I would argue that attitude change is not the same thing as legislative change (or more awareness of legislative change).
There’s a long history of women being screwed over by unjust (or unfairly applied) law, so it’s understandable that many times feminists’ first impulse is to fix a problem by legislating it, or relying on the law to fix it. And I’m just thoroughly unconvinced that it’s sufficient to cause actual behavior change here–yes, throw rapists in prison, tighten up definitions of sexual assault to make it easier to convict, but at some point that’s all reactive rather than preventative, and thus will never lead to a lowering in the actual incidence of rape.
Attitude change (and by extension, a change in the normative sexual scripts we all use before getting laid) is a tough sell for a lot of people in the anti-rape movement, though. In order to get behind it, you have to believe at least a little in the humanity of some rapists. That is, you have to believe that some men who date-rape women are guys who basically think of themselves as good people but who have ingested the sexist and woman-harmful models of sex that our culture is swimming in, and who could be convinced of a different model. Sometimes I’m sure that must be the case. Other times I wonder if I believe that just because the alternative is too horrible and too upsetting to really believe.
The alternative is to use the stick approach: don’t do this because it will land you in prison. (Implicitly, assuming that men can only be stopped from raping by threatening them with punishment.) The only catch being it doesn’t really work that well, in my experience.
I don’t mean to minimize the criminal aspects of rape, but I think an ethical approach to sex might work as well, paralell to the punitive approach. That is, most people have at least a dim awareness of what ethics are, yet for many ethics seem not to be a factor when it comes to men getting sex. Like it’s not ok not to pay back money you owe, but it’s ok to have sex with a passed out woman because who can blame you, these chances don’t come around a lot. A lot of the arguing, a la Kobe Bryant defenders, that if a woman drinks/ goes alone to a room with a man, then tough can be refuted with an ethical question. Hard liners can use sexism to defend their stupid opinions about rape victims, but there is just no way they can argue that men like Kobe acted ethically.
Not to imply that Kobe’s poor victim was drinking. Her crime was trusting a celebrity, poor woman.
yes…nothing said about my comment would be anything i disagree with. i think the laws should codify what we believe is unacceptable behavior. but we first have to make everyone believe that the behavior really is unacceptable.
i think the arguments should be both the ethical ones and the legal ones, but also (and this is why i made my smoking analogy, but i didn’t develop it well enough in the comment) the public health/safety argument. the obvious costs of rape are the burdens on the police, courts, and hospitals of finding and prosecuting rapists and treating victims. less obvious are: the toll on the psyche of women feel unsafe alone at night; the monetary loss that women have to take if, out of fear, they refuse to take a job or housing that requires them to be out alone at night; the sense of unease and distrust between men and women (especially non-friends) due to the possibility of rape (however unlikely); the continued subjugation of women’s sexuality due to chance of being accused of “asking for it”; i’m sure there are others.
while i don’t usually like appealing to selfish interest, a lot of people find smoking unacceptable because of the social costs to non-smokers (second-hand smoke risks, rising health costs, etc.). i think we can appeal to the same instinct to make rape unacceptable because of the social costs to non-victims. a sort of “rape hurts everyone” campaign.
Elena, I agree with your comment #19. It is weird how an ethical frame is rarely used when talking about rape and sexual assault–in fact, if you’ve ever done any sexual assault awareness work, it’s amazing how the conversation invariably turns back to splitting hairs about legality.
In the comment thread at Dorcasina’s I mentioned earlier, there was actually a guy who said something to the effect of, ‘rape is by its nature primarily a legal matter.’ And I don’t think that’s an uncommon belief–that when we talk about rape, we’re primarily talking about a legal concept. (As opposed to something like theft or fraud–where people in general can agree that certain behaviors are theft or are fraud, even if one could never be prosecuted in a courtroom for them.)
And so I’m frustrated sometimes by campaigns like the one referenced here, that while trying to do something really great–change ideas about consent!–just uphold this idea that rape is primarily a legal violation, as opposed to an *ethical* violation. Or a humanitarian violation. We don’t teach people that shouting racial slurs at someone is wrong because they could be arrested; we teach them it’s wrong *because hurting others is unethical*. Because hate is wrong. Because it decreases their humanity to treat someone like that.
(On a parenthetical note–while writing that, I just realized that rape isn’t the only feminist issue that is treated this way. Sexual harassment, anyone? It’s interesting, now that I think about it. I’m going to have to ponder that for a while.)
I think that the ethical aspect often gets ignored because people think it’s already been settled: yes, rape is bad. There’s then the question of what rape is, and what it means if you’re a person who might concievably do it. Acting like the ethics question has already been settled is a good reason why progress gets stuck – people know how to talk about race and gender and rape like things have changed enough, but they still don’t act that way. It’s a second, different, and maybe bigger hurdle than bringing awareness to the problem in the firs place.
I’ve just lost a long post. Here’s the summary:
(1) I’m wary of the “rapists are stupid not malevolent” theory behind education campaigns. They must know it’s wrong, and we wouldn’t try and educate people out of committing any other serious crimes. I hope the campaign is of the “don’t do this because it will land you in prison” type.
(2) I hope nothing comes of the suggestion that the law should be changed so that someone can be ‘too drunk to give consent’. I’m not suggesting that someone who’s unconscious is capable of consent, or should be legally. But my reading is that in the hope of jailing more rapists the proposal would make an explicit ‘yes’, from someone who’s conscious but drunk, a legal ‘no’. That would be a mistake. It would be an absolute disaster in terms of law reform and would make criminals of people who have done nothing wrong.
(3) Sexual ethics good. But like Sara says, beyond “rape is bad” could we really get people to agree on much? Even on this blog?
I have to disagree with those who think rape is an ethical issue. To call it an ethical issue is to trivialize it. Rape is a *moral* issue.
a class i was in developed an “i ask” t-shirt campaign for males. while it was just a pilot, i think the idea was really good. men talking to men about what rape is and enforcing consequences for peers who do rape.
we also talked about the difference between the american “no means no” and the canadian (so i’ve heard) “yes means yes.” i like the idea of teaching the need for explicit consent, as opposed to letting men think they have a “green light” until they hear “no.” (and that’s a sober “yes,” not a drunk one.)
It would also be nice to see some awareness in this sort of campaign that badgering a “yes” out of a woman isn’t genuine consent. Does your partner genuinely want to be doing this, or did you push and push and push until she caved? What consequences did she have to fear if she continued to say no? I realize that can’t be rendered into a soundbite, but it seems to me an important dimension to the ethical issue. Though I would guess this sort of thing is pretty much unprosecutable except in the most extreme cases (like driving a woman out into the middle of nowhere and threatening to leave her there if she didn’t put out), I wish there was more recognition that it’s possible to pressure someone into agreeing to do something they’re not at all comforable with. It’s not (or shouldn’t be) just about hearing a “yes”.
Well, rape is illegal, but the problem is it is so easy to get away with. The nature of rape means that even in a just, equitable society it would still boil down to a “he said, she said” argument that would be difficult to prosecute. Add in the “she was asking for it” defense that seems to work way too often, and it’s a damn near impossiblity.
Two things prevent crime, an individual’s conscience and fear of incrimination. Due to a rampant amount of sexism in our culture, both of these aspects are severely compromised. The pervasiveness of the idea that if a woman consents to being alone with a man while wearing a sexy outfit, she automatically consents to sex allows rapists to justify to themselves that what they’re doing isn’t really rape, and even for those who don’t need that justification, these ideas mean they’ll almost certainly get away with it. A stronger social change is necessary if women are to be truly freed from the treat of sexual assault. Sure this campaign is a first start, and if it takes 30 years or even 100 years to finally achieve these social changes, then in 30-100 years that’ll be great.
Until then, though, it’s still depressing.
That is, you have to believe that some men who date-rape women are guys who basically think of themselves as good people but who have ingested the sexist and woman-harmful models of sex that our culture is swimming in, and who could be convinced of a different model. Sometimes I’m sure that must be the case. Other times I wonder if I believe that just because the alternative is too horrible and too upsetting to really believe.
I think this is probably true. And, in fact, it follows from the feminist idea of a rape culture. If there’s a pervasive rape culture–and I don’t think many on this board would argue that there isn’t–then a lot of otherwise decent people will find themselves excusing rape, or not acknowledging rape, or even commiting it because they’re not sure what it is, because they think having sex with a drunken woman is just a fun, slightly naughty thing to do like getting a tattoo.
Speaking from personal experience here, I’ve had arguments with men–men who I would otherwise consider good people, who are generous and kind for the most part–who clearly have no real understanding of what “rape” is. I remember an argument I had with a friend of mine over the Kobe Bryant case–his “argument,” such as it was, was basically that Kobe Bryant doesn’t need to rape anyone because he’s Kobe and women are lining up to have sex with him. Which reveals a total ignorance about the difference between rape and sex. My response: “Yes, exactly. Kobe’s used to getting what he wants. So he thinks he’s entitled to take it, even from people who don’t want to give it to him.” This guy had never thought about things in that light before, and he just looked kind of blank.
I agree 100% on promoting discussion of sexual ethics/morality/whatever you want to call it. The discussion shouldn’t be just about “How much can I do before I get legally liable for rape?” but also “Is it right to have sex with this person at this time?”
I read the statement from Jane Doe (in the Haidl case). While I don’t imagine that education would have stopped the actual perpetrators, perhaps it would have made the attitudes of her friends/aquaintances better and spared her from the further victimization she experienced. In fact, as horrible as the original crime was, I have to say I’m much more horrified about how she was treated afterwards. Oh my god… I can’t help but start thinking how evil people are! But when I think twice about it, I can hold out the hope that maybe it really is just ignorance.
I have to say I’m much more horrified about how she was treated afterwards.
Yes, this seems to be a really common reaction. I had that reaction too.
On the face of it, this makes no sense, because of course being raped is worse than being slandered. But I think if you look at why people feel this way, it starts to make more sense. What these adults–lawyers, parents, jurors, private investigators–did to Jane Doe in a cold and calculating and utterly unempathetic (is that even a word?) is even more chilling than what the boys did.
E.C. Writes:
March 16th, 2006 at 8:28 am
It would also be nice to see some awareness in this sort of campaign that badgering a “yes” out of a woman isn’t genuine consent. Does your partner genuinely want to be doing this, or did you push and push and push until she caved? What consequences did she have to fear if she continued to say no?
—–
As a feminist woman, I am however somewhat tired of this assumed weakness on our part. I agree we should have a compaign like that, back to back with another one telling my fellow sisters to please stand up for themselves. You owe yourself, as a human being, to stop others from doing to you, insofar as you can, what you would not do to them.
I have always pictured myself taking a machine gun, either under my coat if I had to track my rapist down, or else into the courtroom if he had been arrested (I know, I know, the metal detectors would eject me automatically.) I would look him in the eye and say, “This is how much it hurts – and you’ll never feel even this again. Rot in hell.” And then I would pull the trigger until it’s empty. Interestingly enough, I never picture his face or the physical details or feel the muscularity of the vengeance- it’s an abstract delight that I take, the securing of a lasting peace, from such imagining.
Ditto for an abuser coming to kill me and our children – as it seems to be their wont and speciality to do. I would station myself at a window and calmly take him out, dispensing with polished compliments. I will not wait for him to take the pleasure of slaughtering my children in front of me, keeping me for the delicious last – oh no Siree. The only problem is the children witnessing it – hopefully he would have made a mistake about their schedule or something and they are not around, otherwise I am afraid I would be in a bit of a bind. Still, if I have to choose I would vote for Mommy killing Daddy because Daddy is out to kill everybody first, than Daddy killing absolutely everybody. And then these cowards kill even themselves – they never have the balls to face up to their inhumanity. Fuckin’ weasel!
Note: I have always been happy in love, been in a happy relationship in the last ten years, have an otherwise sunny disposition, and have some good male friends and have never been assaulted, sexual or otherwise. My brother is kinda angry at times though – maybe it’s a chemical imbalance in our heads. I was even an angry feminist at six.
I do want to say that I am not blaming other women from not killing their rapists and abusers – I just sometimes get sick and tired of this crap, this all-powerful oppression, and wish it would go away.
I really think rape is taken lightly enough as it is already. We don’t need jokes to reinforce the idea “oh it’s not that bad”. It is difficult enough to admit to the fact of being raped with out the possibility of having jokes made about said person or the situation. Sexual assault is on the rise again because of the common thought that whatever afflicted assault is obviously wrong and inappropriate so OF COURSE it’s a joke because the offender would never actually do something like that! This is a sly way of evading charges against said offenders because it makes it seem as though the assaulted is over reacting.