This is a real gem. Here’s the quote from CNN:
“I mean Cuban, Puerto-Rican, they are all very hot,” the governor says on the recording. “They have the, you know, part of the black blood in them and part of the Latino blood in them that together makes it.”
So apparently he was referencing a Latina assemblywoman, who he thinks is hot tempered (not hot as in good looking). This is a nice example of racial essentialism, note the reference to “blood.” I guess he’s referencing that “angry gene” found in blacks and Latinos. To add insult to injury the congresswoman gave a defense of Schwarzenegger:
Garcia, who is Puerto Rican, told the Times the governor’s remarks did not bother her.
“I love the governor because he is a straight talker just like I am,” she said. “Very often I tell him, ‘Look, I am a hot-blooded Latina.’ I label myself a hot-blooded Latina that is very passionate about the issues, and this is kind of an inside joke that I have with the governor.”
Just what we need, a white guy making racist comments and the woman who is the object of those comments, standing up for him. Living proof that acceptance of stereotypes transcends racial/ethnic groups.
This is not the first time Schwarzenegger has been accused of making racist comments two body builders accused him of using racial slurs, including the n-word. Others have a accused the California governor of anti-Semitism as well.
On another note, who can forget all of the famous gropings.
I guess he’s continuing a long tradition of racism, anti-Semitism, and misogyny.
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Feh. Most stereotypes do have some basis in truth, and the people who most vehemently oppose all stereotypes are white liberals (as in left-liberals) who know that opposing stereotypes is what civilized, enlightened people do. Very often (but not always) these people live in white suburbs, go to work in a car, and otherwise avoid contact with actual flesh-and-blood people of color.
I also find it curious that you see the Governator as the subject here and the Latina as a mere object:
Clearly Arnold didn’t just one day decide that “hey, I’m going to make a racist comment!” Instead, the comment he made seems to be something garnered out of discussion with Garcia.
And then there’s the fact that Garcia wasn’t bothered by slightest by his comments, but I guess the real issue is that a white, non-leftist guy got uppity and noticed a prevalent group trait. When people who don’t belong to that demographic do it, the scandal is outchirped by the crickets.
Ps. As for all the accusations (most of which seem to be unfounded) toward Schwarzenegger, I recall some campaign towards a Democratic candidate…
Was it “fast ship” or something? :P
Is this the future of politics, dirt-throwing and personal destruction of your opponents?
You know, Tuomas, there’s a stereotype about Fins that they’re all crazy drunkards, so I guess I can discount your statement as being under the influence of too much alcohol and not enough resperidone, right?
Come on. What evidence do you have, apart from Arnold’s little anecdote, that latino/as and/or blacks are more “hot blooded” than anyone else?
Watch out, Dianne, or I’m coming over to axe-murder you. If I don’t pass out after the sauna, of course. :P
I said some basis of truth. I personally believe that it’s mostly culture — latinos usually have a culture that doesn’t value restraint and where it is permissible to express strong emotions. It is academically an interesting question whether this has anything to do with race, though. Sadly, for many people, race and culture are seen as one and the same. And these come in all colors, genders, and political persuasions.
I dont wanna have a weird, mean, psycho, stupid, creepy “governor” no more.
I want a REAL governor just like everybody else.
Please make bad man go ‘way.
*sniff*
Everything I was going to say Tuomas already said, although not using the exact words and phrases that I would have picked out.
It is known among sociologists that different cultures have different norms regarding behavior. I have a friend whose father is a white German and her mother an African American who met while attending college in Germany. She says that there are very dramatic differences in the way that people express themselves between the black family of her mother and the white family of her father. That’s not racist, that’s just fact.
Also, Garcia is a Latina and she was the one that originally referred to herself as hot-blooded. She didn’t say all Latinas are hot-blooded, she says that she just happens to be a hot-blooded Latina. There is a difference.
I fault Schwarzenegger for his seeming ignorance to the fact that race and culture are not the same thing.
“To add insult to injury the congresswoman gave a defense of Schwarzenegger..”
What was the insult? What was the injury?
Schwarzzeneger didn’t just say “this woman is a really hot-blooded woman — she even jokes to me that she’s a ‘hot blooded Latina.'” Instead, he implicates an entire ethnic group, saying that the entire group has a personality trait.
That’s the insult part.
The injury part is that when, say, young Latina women hear this sort of thing coming not only from the governor but from another Latina woman, even if they don’t personally consider themselves “hot-blooded,” now they feel it’s something they should be living up to. This is one way in which stereotypes can perpetuate. Additionally, after having seen both the governor and a Latina woman make the comment that Latina women are angry people, perhaps an employer, or someone else in a position of power — or even just Joe Average walking down the street — feels justified in his or her racist thinking and actions, like avoiding locations where Latino populations gather or not hiring Latina women because they’ll get in people’s faces. And if you think those things don’t happen, then you don’t live in the same world as the one I live in.
Further questions?
The injury part is that when, say, young Latina women hear this sort of thing coming not only from the governor but from another Latina woman, even if they don’t personally consider themselves “hot-blooded,” now they feel it’s something they should be living up to.
Then they are too stupid to live, and serious people do not have lifespan to burn worrying over their fee-fees.
I’m curious about this “prevalent group trait”. And don’t say it’s a cultural trait, because either the Governator was intentionally making racial and ethnic references, not cultural ones or he confused the two. So based on your later comments, do you feel “sad” about the Governator too? I mean, he’s not one of those liberals who drives to work and never intermingles with *real* people of color so maybe it’s easier for you to do so
Given his history in this area, it could be either. He’s made racist comments before and he’s made sexist comments before. He’s physically groped women, so it’s pretty clear how he views them.
People explain it away and pretty much give him a pass, because he’s Arnold, the latest Republican actor to embrace politics, but doing so doesn’t change his history of bad behavior. The Democrats will howl when he does it. It’s an election year after all. However, democrats have behaved similarly which of course elicits howls from the Republicans. When either side claims that their concerns are not based on partisian grounds, it’s hard to believe them. You just roll your eyes and know that both are opportunistic liars, especially during election cycles.
As a woman, I think that there’s just too much sexist behavior in politicians from both sides of the aisles to believe that they see us as anything but stereotypes, three years out of four until they need our votes. Especially given that women especially women of color make up the majority of both houses in Congress and all that.
Arnold’s generalization:
He’s not just talking about one congresswoman, Ms Garcia. He’s talking about Cubans and Puerto Ricans in general. And if you read her comments, it appears that she’s not really even talking about the same thing that he is. She’s talking about how she’s referred to herself as an individual. and how she identifies herself. What he did, as a White man, is make an erroneous generalization based on stereotypes involving one race(Black) and an ethnic group(Latino) and about people from Cuba and Puerto Rica, which is much different. Who’s to say whether or not Ms Garcia had a further discussion with him in private after he made these comments?
You know, recently, a young Latina told me after she was hauled off in handcuffs, with her jeans hanging to her knees that the police officers who just stood and stared at her. One of them told her boyfriend how “hot” she was, in similar terms blending her attractive physical appearance with her “temper” at being treated like that by being put on display. He allegedly then said, “I’m going to f— your girlfriend tonight.” A young woman he had just arrested, who was in his custody. Maybe he was joking, maybe he was saying it to get a rise out of the boyfriend or maybe it was a feeling of entitlement he had because he saw her as a racial and gender stereotype.
But it most definitely was no laughing matter. Stereotypes including those pertaining to race and gender never are, except perhaps to those who don’t regularly get stereotyped in a negative way. So being told to “lighten up” by those who are most often in the position to reinforce them and weld them isn’t really a solution either.
Of course I do. His comment is kind of stupid because he claims it is racial. I am going to ignore your wishes and specifically say it is a cultural trait (probably/mostly), but the fact is, it is not uncommon for people to confuse them. I recall someone writing that white people who adopt black babiesa should receive help from multicultural educators (nonsense if race=/=culture), so I suppose whatever works for the needs of the moment.
The fact that he’s not a liberal has absolutely nothing to do with my sympathies. Hell, I’m a liberal.
Allegedly. He has been guilty of some of those, IIRC, but it doesn’t mean that he is guilty of everything people decide to accuse him of.
Robert –
1. Serious people don’t say that other people are “too stupid to live.”
2. As I’ve argued in the past, thinking that only idiots have to be concerned with what others think, is itself a sign of privilege. When people tend to give you the benefit of the doubt, in contrast to how people who don’t share your sex, skin color, and sexual orientation are treated, then it’s easy to assume that what other people think of you doesn’t effect your life.
Tuomas –
Just to clarify, do you mean liberal in the way most contemporary Americans use the term ” liberal,” or liberal in the sense of being a classical liberal?
More of a classical liberal, but perhaps really something in between.
Thanks Molly. Interesting response though I am not persuaded that it was anything more than foolish and impolitic chatter.
•••
Of course, what’s far more interesting that Arnold’s private remark is the public response from ‘people of color’ (I detest that pompous phrase but it actually fits here.) The reaction seems to be all over the place with some defending Arnold.
Incidently, since when has “hot-blooded” been a stereotype of black culture? Admittedly, I’m not necessarily always up on my stereotypes, but that’s a new one to me.
Watch out, Dianne, or I’m coming over to axe-murder you. If I don’t pass out after the sauna, of course. :P
Yeah, yeah. Everybody knows that the Europeans with enough ambition to make it over here to become axe murderers have immigrated already and only the lazy decadent ones are left over there. I always have envied the per capita sauna use achieved in Finland, though. Incidently, the reason I feel it is acceptable to tease you about Finnish culture (apart from that you seem to be ok with it) is that, as far as I know, there is no major prejudice against Fins in the US or elsewhere. Except maybe Russia. I understand there’s a little history there. But in the US being from Finland is considered cool and slightly exotic, but no one will suggest that you aren’t capable of succeeding academically or socially because of your background or suggest that you should be immediately deported because you’re probably illegal or any of the other sorts of prejudice blacks and latinas face.
I said some basis of truth. I personally believe that it’s mostly culture — latinos usually have a culture that doesn’t value restraint and where it is permissible to express strong emotions.
There are cultural differences in how people express strong emotions, but “hot-blooded” implies that there are differences in the level of emotion that they feel, which seems less likely.
It is academically an interesting question whether this has anything to do with race, though.
How you could possibly separate this out from culture, I don’t know. Certainly not with our current level of understanding of how the brain works and how its genetic potential is affected by culture. But if you have a proposed protocol I’d love to hear it.
I think Arnold is still HIGH….either that or just plain ignorant. And to think people actually voted him into office boggles the mind. Thank GOD he will never be president…I’m sure we all know why.
I have a friend whose father is a white German and her mother an African American who met while attending college in Germany. She says that there are very dramatic differences in the way that people express themselves between the black family of her mother and the white family of her father. That’s not racist, that’s just fact.
Well, actually it’s anecdote. My father is from the Midwest (the US Midwest, that is), my mother from Texas. There are dramatic differences in the way that their families express themselves as well. However, there is relatively little difference between how my maternal grandfather’s (mostly white Texan) family expresses itself and my maternal grandmother’s (Latina Texan) family expresses itself. Culture, not race (whatever race is) determines how emotions are expressed and neither changes whether the emotion is felt.
As I’ve argued in the past, thinking that only idiots have to be concerned with what others think…
But that isn’t what I think.
What I think is that anyone who feels, regarding a stereotype, that “it’s something they should be living up to” is stupid.
But I’m only saying that because the stereotype is that Italo-Scots are heartless rationalists, and I’m an Italo-Scot, and so I feel I have to live up to the stereotype.
Actually, she’s an assemblywoman, not a congresswoman, which I should have remembered because the area she represents is in my region. She’s vocal and passionate on issues but so are a lot of people and it’s not because they are “hot-blooded” because of racial or ethnic identity and stereotypes involving that. If she were White and just as passionate and outspoken, what would Arnold attribute it to then?
Her rival Steve Clute (used to be in my district) in the assembly race chastized her a bit on her “professionalism”, but was less critical than Phil Angelides who is running for governor.
Well, the Actor can’t run for president because he was born in another country.
Actually, the reaction seems to be on partisian lines. It’s an election year.
What I think is that anyone who feels, regarding a stereotype, that “it’s something they should be living up to” is stupid.
Except that living up to a stereotype doesn’t have to involve conscious effort. From the Washington Post: Strange but true: Women score much lower on math tests if they are first asked unrelated questions about gender issues. The phenomenon is called “stereotype threat” — a kind of performance anxiety discovered in 1995 when psychologists found that black students at Stanford University did significantly worse on intelligence tests if they were first asked to identify their race on the test form.
Since then, dozens of other experiments have confirmed that subtly cuing women or minorities to think subconsciously about their sex or race causes them do poorly in areas where the stereotype suggests they are weak.
See here for the full article.
Thanks, Radfem. I’ll change it to assemblywoman.
Radfem said, “If she were White and just as passionate and outspoken, what would Arnold attribute it to then?”
Probably PMS. LOL!! Just joking–I couldn’t resist.
But point well taken, Why does her “feisty” demeanor have to be attributed to her ethnic background? Why didn’t he view it as a personal trait, not an ethnic trait.?
Why didn’t he view it as a personal trait, not an ethnic trait.?
Because he doesn’t subscribe to the peculiar left-wing view that ethnic groups have no discernible traits.
Well, there’s actually quite a lot prejudice in other Nordic countries (and it used to be worse, pre WW2 there was lot of talk how Fins are “not Aryan”, or “Mongoloid”, which meant increased discrimination on Fins with typical Eastern Finn features [more slavic]), esp. Sweden (I mean, where did you get that crazy drunkards from if there is no prejudice?) Not so much in Russia, except perhaps that Fins are cold and unfriendly (we’re that only to our “good neighbors” in the East). The reason there aren’t many stereotypes is that the country is so small (in numbers of people) and relatively new as an independent country (not as ethnicity/language, though), therefore, I doubt many people really have a good view on what we’re all about (most are probably bit disappointed on finding out that Finland is, for the lack of better words, quite normal or boring, some would say)
There’s just very little reason to get angry at that kind of comment — sure, some Fins who drink heavily do all sort of crazy stuff that people will remember, and here drinking heavily every now and then is acceptable (if not outright required!) among all social classes. So it has basis in truth.
Perhaps what I’m getting at is that I don’t really support a simplistic “Stereotypes are Bad” POV. More like stereotypes should be analyzed, and we should get to the bottom of them. But indeed, many racial and gender stereotypes are used by some racists to justify inequal treatment under law, whereas my position would be that it really doesn’t matter how different we all are, we should just be equal under law.
I don’t know. It is part of the reason why I find the question rather interesting and worthwhile of scrutiny.
Incidently, since when has “hot-blooded” been a stereotype of black culture? Admittedly, I’m not necessarily always up on my stereotypes, but that’s a new one to me.
“The Negro has strong impulses, and neither patience, reticence, not dignity.” -Francis Galton (late 1800s or so)
(I mean, where did you get that crazy drunkards from if there is no prejudice?)
Actually, that’s it’s really the American anti-Swedish stereotype. I just moved it east a bit. I’ve always attributed the stereotype to sour grapes: Scandinavians always whip Americans butts on things like infant mortality, life expectancy, and per capita cell phone use. So there are a lot of conversations that go something like this: “The US has the greatest health care in the world.” “Then why does Sweden have a longer life expectancy?” “Uh…yeah, but their suicide rate is higher. See! Socialism turns people into a bunch of crazy drunks.” (Well, you asked.)
Anyway, my apologies
Thanks, but I wasn’t offended. But my mouth is still hanging open — Americans have a stereotype that Swedes are drunks? For real?
Ps. Dianne, the Finn=Drunk is a very prevalent stereotype that has been historically used to justify state monopoly on alcohol sales, prohibition (long time ago) and is something that sophisticated European Fins (most Fins, when they say Europe, mean France, Germany etc. not Finland) use to mocj their less enlightened countrymen. It is also a prevalent stereotype among Swedes, Norwegians and Estonians, at least, about us.
I honestly thought the whole thing was sort of global knowledge!
Tuomas, I’d always heard two things about Finns: drunks, and good in a fight.
You informed me elsewhere that the good in a fight thing wasn’t really true. That just leaves the drinking. (You sot.)
I’m quite sure I haven’t said that. Maybe I have downplayed it, or sort of said that it’s not important or something that a civilized person should be very proud of (after all, fighting and war dirty and unpleasant activities), but that stereotype is somewhat accurate, too.
To quote Mannerheim
*Sob*
Ah, patriotism. It’s a good thing, if kept in moderation.
are dirty and unpleasant activities…
You’re right! It was that despicable ohwilleke fellow who was dissing on Finland’s greatness as a war-fighting nation. My bad.
You drunk paleskins all look the same to me.
I’m with Tuomas here. The dumbest thing I ever heard about stereotypes = bad was at some orientation for an international program I participated in, when they said that sterotypes are bad, but generalizations are useful. It wasn’t clear what the difference is.
The reasons why I roll my eyes at these disputes are: every intelligent person should know that stereotyping, or generalizing, IS a useful tool that we ALL employ, or it would be impossible to get along in the world. We also know, as intelligent people, that our expectations of a person based on culture, appearance, or gender should be only flexible guidlines to be preempted by better knowledge of the individual. It’s just one of the many paradoxes of life.
Stereotypes are natural, useful, variably correct or incorrect, and sometimes annoying and hurtful. Incidently- why is being a “hot blooded” Latin American a bad thing? Besides the clunky words, that is.
I think that it’s possible to make peace with the conflict of being proud of whatever your positive cultural stereotype is while acknowedging whatever amount of truth is in the negatives- while still expecting respect as an individual.
“why is being a “hot blooded” Latin American a bad thing?”
Well, for one because it’s based on ignorance. As in: Latin America is not one culture, it’s hundreds of cultures. “Latin American” also has fuck-all to do with any concept of “race”, and Arnie was clearly using it as a racial label (as do many US citizens). It makes no more sense to use “Latin American” or “Hispanic” as racial labels than it would to use “North American” or “English Speaker.”
Secondly, when people respond to you based on their pig-ignorant stereotype of “hot-blooded Latin American,” everything you do will be filtered by them through this lens, and they will interpret whatever you do and say as a result of your “naturally hot-blooded” temperament. How could that possibly be a GOOD thing?
Thirdly, the North (in both the Americas and in Europe) has always labelled the South as being “more emotional,” with the clear intent to cast us as less logical, less able to be in control of ourselves or our own cultures and lives, less capable of reaching rational conclusions, etc.
The whole this is bullshit, and I can’t believe anyone is actually trying to minimise or excuse it away.
I suppose the Russsian’s think that because the Fins shot back when they tried to overun Finland? That was sort of unwelcoming and unfriendly!
I have friend from Finland. At a party, people were asking him what Fins were like in general. He told us Fins were quite, shy and reserved. Harry was just about the most gregarious person we knew, so we all laughed and asked him what happened to him. His response was “Oh, that’s because my mother is Jewish!” (This resulted in quite a bit of laughter.)
As to stereotype about drinking, I have three Irish grandparents and one Cuban grandparent; I thought the Irish were the drunks.
I am sad to say that I am really not surprised by this in the slightest. Arnold is really fairly nutty and offensive–sorry to those who live in California!
And of course this is offensive, as usual.
Just for the halibut, I trued to think of every group/race/culture that I have ever heard of referred to as “hot blooded” (though I’m sure I missed some). The irony of the list is that, as often is the case, many groups EACH think the OTHER is “hot blooded” (and usually a host of other insults as well). Which, IMO, tends to serve as proof of how bloody ridiculous the whole thing is.
Bostonians, new yorkers, liberals, republicans, italians, spaniards, irish, jews, muslims, northerners (not Canadians, though!), southerners, americans, texans, mexicans, latinos, russians….. the list goes on but I can’t think of them all. And seeing as hot blooded is a RELATIVE term, if everyone is considered hot blooded, then nobody is….
Sigh. Remind me again what Arnold is doing in office? Oh well, at least he can’t be president.
Sailorma,
I also wouldn’t want to be labeled cold blooded. LOL!!!
I’m sure we finns will beat those pesky irishmen after a few more years of introducing “civilized european drinking habits” here (read: In addition to getting wasted on the weekends, we now drink also during the week).
Out here in the Midwest, the general impression is that California always has a weird Governor.
I don’t know anything about Finns, but mentioning Russian reminds me that about every 6 months you’ll see a story in the papers talking about how much of a scourge alcoholism is in Russia, how the per capita consumption of hard liquor (vodka, mostly) is much higher than in the U.S., how it has a deleterious effect on their economy, etc.
*clears throat*
Didn’t one state somewhere in the Midwest elect a pro- wrestler to serve as governor?
We’ve only had two actors so far…professionally speaking.
LOL, Rachel S. Actually, it took me too long to figure out that it was Bonnie Garcia, who I’ve met several times. She’s up this year and running against a guy I know(I took college math from his wife) who I thought had termed out in my district, but since this is the fastest growing area in the state, our district lines tend to change a lot especially since we get a brand new one every 10 years.
I don’t know if Norwegians are big drinkers, but they’re supposed to be awfully stoic and all that.
That would be Minnesota. Sometimes the cold makes them a bit crazy up there. It should be noted that before Jesse Ventura was a wrestler, he was a Seal. The latter, rather than the former, was stressed during the campaign.
Actually, I was thinking not only about Reagan and the present occupant, but also Jerry Brown, a.k.a. “Governor Moonbeam”.
But my mouth is still hanging open — Americans have a stereotype that Swedes are drunks? For real?
Yep. At least, I’ve heard Americans make the genearlization more than once. Mostly as part of a “socialism makes you drunk and crazy, just look at the Swedes” argument. I take it that that’s not how they are preceived by Fins? (Incidently, don’t the Swedes also have a state monopoly on alchol? I vaguely remember reading somewhere that they did.)
That’s the problem with stereotypes, they can drift and lose all relation to any cultural norm that might give them a grain of truth and get attached to groups that they are completely inappropriate for.
When thinking about whether the stereotype “hot blooded Latina” makes any sense, consider those wild, hot blooded Costa Ricans. If they were just cool and rational like North American whites they wouldn’t get into so many wars.
I guess the CHP has launched an investigation into the whole thing.
CHP investigates audio tape
More intrigue.
Rival admits leaking audio to Times