Ya’ll know the drill….
VeganKid presents: Radical Progressive Carnival #8!
Every Woman Has An Eating Disorder: Response to being told “An eating disorder—now that’s something I’d like to have.”
I forget who pointed out this blog to me (Maia, perhaps?), but it’s excellent. Gotta add this one to the blogroll.
The Anti-Essentialist Conundrum: Why The Pursuit Of Happyness Is Unfair To The (Ex-) Wife Character
This is one of my favorite posts that I’ve read all week. A definite addition to the ever-growing blogroll.
Confined Spaces: Top Ten Workplace Safety Stories of 2006
I really can’t recommend this blog too strongly. Always fascinating (and infuriating).
Women’s ENews: ‘Eve-Teasing’ Makes India’s Streets Mean for Women
Rachel’s Tavern: Is It Racist To Say A Black Woman Has Good Hair?
There’s some really excellent discussion in the comments.
Violet Blue Blog: 2007 Will See Several Small Publishers Forced Out Of Business
The bankruptcy of a major book distributor might be very costly to American books. Galley Cat has more.
Google Video: Tickle Me Elmo Burns To Death, Laughing
Disturbing.
Obsidian Wings: Beautiful Take-Down Of Right-Wing Attack On Silly-Sounding College Course Titles
If you not only stop to think, but have even a tiny bit of self-awareness, you’d have to notice one more thing: that writing a column like this exemplifies all the faults it is supposedly opposed to. Lack of intellectual rigor? Check. […] Political correctness? Check. The “hollowing out” of the op-ed pages and “replacement by crude indoctrination sessions in whatever is ideologically fashionable”? Check. Offering what’s “trendy” “at the expense of actual academic content”? Check.
There are things one might legitimately criticize about academia. But this is not the way to do it. And it bugs me to see someone pretending to stand up for academic standards, which are dear to my heart, while betraying them so completely in what she writes.
DaRain Man: Autobiographical Post About Being Bullied
Despite being on an anti-feminist blog, this post is excellent, and describes a very real harm done to boys in our society.
Women’s ENews: Discrimination Against Women For Their Marital Status Is Legal In 28 States
From what this article says, this may be a particularly severe problem for single mothers.
YouTube: Louie Anderson’s West End Blues might be the most perfect three minutes of music you’ll ever hear
Curtsy: Brownfemipower.
Tiny Cat Pants: Apparently The World Owes Wintermass A Perpetual Hard-On
Beautifully written, angry response to a misogynistic internet asshole.
Google Video: College Classroom Prank: The Musical!
Oh, I am awed. This is amazing. I love the prof cracking up, too.
Latina Lista: Mexican University Prepares To Outfit Undocumented Migrants With GPS Devices
The idea is, if they get lost in the desert or otherwise get in trouble crossing, they can activate the devices and be rescued by the border patrol folks, thus preventing deaths. It’s a neat idea, I hope it works.
NY Times: There’s Been A Big Drop In Breast Cancer Rates
Transadvocate Blog: More Thoughts On The Feminist Arguments Against Trans
Marti bounces off a post I wrote, adding thoughts and analysis.
Canadian Court Legally Recognizes Three Parents Of One Boy
His two lesbian mothers and his father. I think this development is wonderful.
Junk Food Science: “Fat Children Cost More In Health Care” is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Turns out the higher costs aren’t due to fat kids getting sick any more, or using more emergency room trips. The higher costs are due to doctors assuming that being fat is a disease and thus ordering more tests for fat child patients.
NY Times: Illegal Drug Use Is Up — Mainly Among Middle-Aged White People
Why are so few Americans aware of these troubling trends? One reason is that today’s drug abusers are simply the “wrong” group. As David Musto, a psychiatry professor at Yale and historian of drug abuse, points out, wars on drugs have traditionally depended on “linkage between a drug and a feared or rejected group within society.” Today, however, the fastest-growing population of drug abusers is white, middle-aged Americans. This is a powerful mainstream constituency, and unlike with teenagers or urban minorities, it is hard for the government or the news media to present these drug users as a grave threat to the nation.
PoliBlog: American’s Biggest Cash Crop: Marijuana
Balkinization: The Laziest Son
I’m not usually a poetry reader. But this thirteenth century poem by Rumi, and the blogger’s discussion of it, was both entertaining and fascinating.
Feministe: New York Public Schools To Start Issuing Obesity Report Cards.
Because the fat kids aren’t given enough shit about their weight already. See this post at Majikthise, as well.
Echidne: The Hairy Armpit Wars
The reactions to the armpit hair revolution were swift and of the expected type. The hairy armpit wearers were condemned as ugly (why not talk to Mother Nature about that?), as manly (ditto) and as unable to attract men and therefore giving up on the fight. But the hairy armpit wearers were also labeled as focused on a trivial matter, on something that has to do with body grooming, on something that was so silly as to endanger the whole feminist movement.
Atlanta Journal-Constitution: “Alone in the darkness of a state mental hospital, Sarah Crider, 14, lay slowly dying….”
Well-researched, horrifying news story about pattern of neglect and abuse in Georgia state mental hospitals. Curtsy: The Gimp Parade.
Racialicious: Will UC Berkeley Become A, Um, Historically Asian College?
Journal of Occupational and Organizational Psychology: Everyone Seems Smarter On A Little Screen
A study finds that, all else held equal, job candidates are more likely to be liked by employers if they interview via a videoconference rather than in person.
William Saletan: The Ongoing Failure Of The 30-Year Search For The Harms Of Lesbian Parenting
Black Britain: Blacks Fell Less Pressure To Obsess About Their Weight
Alas, the article-writer seems to think this is a bad thing.
Pandagon: Mean, sarcastic take-down of anti-sex right-wingers. I loved it.
Boing Boing: Microscopic fungus practices mind-control on ants.
What is there to say, except: Keeewwwlll!
Box Turtle Bulletin: Respected Study Finds That 95% of Americans Have Had Pre-Marital Sex
And check out “Breaking News: Having Sex Is Normal” at Sometimes Feminists Aren’t Nice, too, for another excellent post about the same finding.
OMWO: Breastfeeding follies: Baby Attempts To Nurse From Bare-Breasted Statue.
With pictures! Curtsy: Boing Boing.
Planet of the Blind: Waiting For The Bus, Part II
I’m having a revery on the bus. Someone will shortly lean toward me and say that they once had a dog like mine. They will tell me a long and pointless story about their dog. They will not imagine that I have heard approximately four hundred and twenty five thousand dog stories from assorted strangers over the past decade.
Queer Dude Formerly Known As…: Dinesh D’Souza really, really, really hates liberals.
Every time I think that right-wing bestselling authors have reached the limits of their irrationality, I’m amazed anew.
The Morning News: Being Christopher Hitchens
What if Hitch were a professional wrestler? Or a children’s book reviewer? Or stuck in a room with several other Christopher Hitchenses? Curtsy: Truly Outrageous.
Because Sometimes Feminists Aren’t Nice: Round-Of Of MSNBC’s Advice About Eating and Weight
Damn Cool Pics: Amazing Manhole Cover Art From Japan
A couple of examples are on the right side of this blog post. Damn, are we lame in comparison. Curtsy: Obsidian Wings.
Balkinization: Constitutions are most effective when they do not appear to be doing anything.
As is the case with a good shot blocker, the constitution functions by creating a kind of consciousness that prevents issues from even arising in partisan politics. A corollary to this thesis is that issues are likely to arise and prove relatively enduring only when standard constitutional sources do not provide clear answers to the relevant constitutional questions.
From The Archives: How Shy Young Men Ought Nicely Ask Women For Kisses, Or Sex
Indirectly via Ezra, who discusses how excruciatingly horrible small talk is. I quite agree.
BBC: The Tower Of London Has Appointed A Female Beefeater For The First Time In History
Very cool. And as Jack at AngryBrownButch points out, it’s supercool that they’re having her wear the same uniform as all the other beefeaters.
I’m Not A Feminist, But…: Being Given Shit For Caring About Men Sucks And It’s Wrong
Wonkette: Amazing NRA Graphic Novel Revealed!
The politics are awful, but the drawings are wonderful. (Curtsy to Echidne).
Shakespear’s Sister: First Muslim Representative Sworn Into Office On Tom Jefferson’s Copy Of The Koran
A slap in the face of bigot Virgil Goode, the Representative from Jefferson’s home district, who loudly called the use of a Koran un-American.
NY Times: The Financial Costs Of Caring For Elderly Parents
Curtsy: Family Law Prof Blog.
Iambored.com: Condom Plant!
It’s a science project! Curtsy: Bint.
Shakespeare’s Sister: Quote I Really Liked, Click Through To Read The Whole Post
Realistically, the breadth of allies in a comprehensive challenge to the patriarchy is vast and varied. Though all of us, sans rigorous philosophical exertion, are hapless conduits for every limiting and oppressive archetype upon which the patriarchy depends, conveying the bars of our own cages, very few of us are its unconstrained beneficiaries. Even the average straight, white, middle class American man exchanges privilege for severe limitations on his personal expression and emotional life—and he is encouraged never to examine that devastating trade-off too closely, lest the veneer on the alleged bargain prove thin enough through which to see. We all serve the same callous master, and there’s little to celebrate in being the favored slave—especially compared to a life of freedom.
Alison Bechdel’s Fun Home Name Entertainment Weekly’s #1 Nonfiction Book Of The Year
This is in addition to the Time endorsement I blogged about a week or two ago. I find it thrilling that Bechdel is having such mainstream success, after years of being one of America’s best unknown cartoonists. Late Reviews has a review of Fun House, if you’d like more info.
Google Video: Laurence Lessig Lecture On Copyright Reform And New Technology
Long, and probably only of interest to people who already believe that the US approach to intellectual property desperately needs radical reform, but I enjoyed it. It’s worth sitting through the one or two dull Q&A bits at the end to get to the more interesting ones that follow, too. Curtsy: Boing Boing.
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Re: College Classroom Prank: The Musical!
This is the best thing ever. Ever, ever, ever.
I have to go forward it to everyone I’ve ever met. Now.
Every woman has an eating disorder, likes to wear lipstick and date men and get flowers for their birthday and . . ..
I’ve spent the last several months questioning whether I may or may not be FTM, but I’m starting to get the idea that it’s society that has a problem with my body not matching my pursuits, not me.
This blog is written by somebody who means well, but it’s somebody who is defining me outside of womanhood. Just like every single other gender essentialist.
Have you read the blog beyond the title and blurb? I don’t think she is a gender essentialist. She is very clearly arguing that society creates women with eating disorders. I don’t think she is categorising people without eating disorders as ‘not women’ , particularly as she focuses a lot of her attention on how you can overcome eating disorders – and I don’t think she’s impying that people who have success in overcoming eating disorders cease to be women.
I think that pointing out that eating disorders are the norm, rather than the exception, among women is important. I do think that the way she expresses her thesis is problematic (it also puts my best friend Betsy outside the category of women). Women without eating disorders are probably more likely to be belong to already marginalised groups than not.
Your link, From The Archives: How Shy Young Men Ought Nicely Ask Women For Kisses, Or Sex Indirectly via Ezra, is messed up. (It looks like you forgot the /a tag after “Or Sex”.
[Thanks! Fixed! –Amp]
Otherwise, great round up– I particularly liked the condom plant…
“Eve-Teasing”? Eve needs some self-defense courses.
An armed society is a polite society. Let some of these gropers come up with a broken arm and some would-be rapist end up with a 9mm ingress hole in their belly and this kind of thing will slow down fast.
Yea, men shouldn’t do this kind of thing. A woman ought to be able to walk down the street naked with $100 bills taped to her body without fear of assault. Both the law and morality should unequivically condemn this kind of thing. But until we reach that enlightened state, I favor women being able to take care of themselves. I’m not worried, since I have no intent of assaulting anyone.
So, this is where all my new blog traffic is coming from! Thanks, Amp, for the link! : )
I thought I’d “weigh in” re: my philosophy on women, gender, etc. I am not a biological essentialist, but rather, as Maia articulates (better than I), feel that eating disorders are largely socially influenced (if not constructed) in our culture. I do not think every woman has an eating disorder (despite my incendiary title!) nor think that if you don’t have one you’re not a woman nor that you can’t have one if you’re a man (wow, I’m having flashbacks from my 9th-grade logic class–converse, inverse, etc.) However, 90% of eating disorder sufferers are women and the large majority of women in the U.S., at least, are taught to criticize and deny their bodies. When I meet a woman who doesn’t, I am extremely interested in how she rose above such powerful cultural messages. I can change the title to be less provocative, but my point remains the same.
Thank you for forcing me to think more about my title and my work–I always appreciate this type of dialogue. Glad I found this community and look forward to reading more. . .
Re: the sex study –
Yep, people are having sex earlier and getting married later, even people who profess conservative morality. That doesn’t mean that the opposite behavior isn’t the best idea or that it shouldn’t be encouraged. What it does mean is that during the last couple of decades, the cacophony from books, movies and TV shows has overwhelmed that message and will likely continue to do so.
And, finally, with regards to Tiny Cat Pants reaction to some lout named Wintermute. I wandered over to Wintermute’s blog to see what kind of person would post something like this. Here’s something he wrote in an entry about himself and his blog sometime on or before November 9th, 2006:
“But even if you don’t always give me credit, I do expect you to give me proper respect.”
I propose that people click though to the Tiny Cat Pants link, read it, follow it though to Wintermute’s blog, and give him exactly the respect he showed.
An armed society is a polite society.
Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia…
I really don’t think that weapons have anything to do with politeness. You want politeness, try places like Singapore (or, to a much lesser extent, Jamaica) where politeness is government enforced.
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Just a heads up… Jack is at AngryBrownButch, not AngryBrownBitch. The link itself is fine, the linktext is oops.
[Just one vowel makes such a difference! :-P Fixed – thanks! Amp.]
““Eve-Teasing”? Eve needs some self-defense courses.”
Funny……the first thing my baby brother did when I explained what I had learned in my self defense class was to do his damnest to show me that it wasn’t at all useful when pitted against what he’d learned in ROTC.
Now, I could carry a taser, mace, or gun with me – but since I’m both absent minded and a children’s librarian, I’m thinking that’s not such a good idea.
Do you read the links you put up? INAFB just bashes Twisty the way an MRA would, in exactly the same terms. The hell?
Actually, my understanding is that those societies ARE quite polite to the point of formality in day-to-day discourse. The militias/criminal gangs are the problem.
Fabulous links. Right away, I read the piece about sexual harassment of women in India. I had always heard that Indian films contain an inordinate number of rape scenes. I was not aware of the level of street harassment. The war on women is waged on so many fronts. It must be stopped!
RonF,
That’s a bit of a skip from the clear intent of what you said in comment # 5, don’tcha think?
An armed society is a polite society.
Like Israel?
Nope. The problem is that in India, Pakistan, Iran, Somalia, etc., not everyone is armed; only the men are. So the men are polite to each other, but abuse the women.
I’m talking about a civil situation. In an armed conflict, you expect the other guy to try to kill you, and you’re trying to kill him.
RonF –
Perhaps you could explain exactly how your ideal society – everyone armed to the teeth and willing to fight over each instance of street harassment – would work. For example, if a woman taking her kids to school was harassed, would she then pull out her knife/Uzi and threaten the harasser? If a woman in a crowded train car was groped, would she break the man’s arm – assuming she knew which man it was – in retaliation? While everyone stood by and applauded?
Your dystopic vision of what would work for women is pretty vile, and completely unrealistic for women’s lives. Women experience street harassment as one form of violence in patriarchal societies – giving everyone a knife isn’t going to change that. Given that “eve teasing” is public harassment, exactly how would threatening the man who harassed her increase a woman’s safety, if there’s already a widespread acceptance of anti-woman behavior?
I’m also rather troubled by your characterizations of India, Pakistan, Iran and Somalia – I’m certainly not the best person to speak for the realities of women’s lives in each of those countries, but I doubt that they would agree that “the men are polite to each other but abuse the women.”
Humans don’t function well under conditions normally found in Grand Theft Auto. I’m amazed that you would advise it.
Ginmar wrote:
INAFB has a track record that indicates that she favors feminism. MRAs, in contrast, have a track record that indicates that they’re only interested in bashing feminism. To me, that context makes how I read their criticisms of feminism very different. Criticizing feminism because you want to improve it isn’t the same as criticizing feminism because you have an irrational hatred of feminism, and want feminism destroyed.
Edited to add: In other words, I think INAFB has earned credibility that most MRAs lack, when it comes to criticizing feminism.
I also didn’t get the impression that INAFB was actually criticizing ‘feminism’ so much as criticizing a particular phenomenon that she finds disturbing.
It’s like the criticism of whatshername, the blogger, for using blackface. There are those on the right who criticized her for that just as a way to score cheap points against the left and reinforce the ‘all lefties are closet racists’ talking point. There are those on the left who criticized her for that because using blackface is out of line, is a racist thing to do, and reinforces the ‘all lefties are closet racists’ talking point.
They both criticized her, but only one was ‘attacking the left’. The other was trying to make ‘the left’ stronger.
I think that INAFB is trying to make feminism stronger.
Thank you, Myca; that puts what I meant clearer than what I wrote did.
No, I simply favor the laws as they stand. If someone tries to rape you, I do believe that it’s legal to resist with deadly force. To try to expand what I said to threatening people in the streets with Uzi’s for simple harassment is nonsense.
If some guy fondled a woman’s breast, actually grabbed it, and she seized his hand and broke it I’d certainly applaud.
Certainly you’d applaud, RonF, certainly. Except that she’d probably be stigmatized/arrested, while the man in question would have escaped long before. What I’m trying to stress is that M.A.D. doesn’t make women any safer, and would almost certainly make women less safe, especially in patriarchal societies.
And I’d love to know how your hand-breaking technique.
Myca, I’m not sure INAFB is making feminism stronger with this post. Amp’s description: Being Given Shit For Caring About Men Sucks And It’s Wrong, makes an assumption that I don’t think is true. The dynamics of what was written, by whom and in what context are much more complex. Ditto for how words impact different readers.
It isn’t far between the title assigned to that post and: Being Given Shit For Not Hating Men Sucks And It’s Wrong.
That message reinforces the stereotypes that feminists who focus on fighting rape hate men. Yet avoiding that very stereotype seemed to be why INAFB questioned the phrase Dead Men Don’t Rape.
Well, check it out, though . . . if there are people out there spewing bile in total seriousness about how ‘men can’t be raped’ or if they are ‘good, now they know what it’s like,’ then they’re the problem. They’re living the stereotype.
Yeah, well, Myca, INAFB quotes only the most radical comments to Twisty’s piece about how male victims of rape are taken seriously, and then uses it to preen about how she’s not one of those feminists, tee hee, she likes men! It’s like an entire blog post devoted to, “I’m not one of those feminists, I like men!” Because, you know, liking men is so damned difficult today in today’s climate.
Myca, an element you miss about the statement that ‘men can’t be raped’ relates to what many men say when denying women’s experience of rape. There are plenty of people who say women are lying about rape when they don’t use the legal definition and instead use the more generic term rape. Mimicking those men sarcastically isn’t likely to be understood by people who have little frame of reference.
To look at one statement, or 4, without considering the context — a statement that rape is more traumatic for men — is a recipe for misinterpretation and mischaracterization.
If I judged people by the most extreme comment they made about the rape of women, I would judge plenty of them as women haters and rapist lovers.
Abyss2hope, I’ve read the thread, I know the context, and I know that in a thread with the genders exactly reversed across the board, you would be livid.
I don’t (of course) think that rape is ‘especially bad’ for men. That’s awful. Denying that doesn’t have to involve the converse either.
Minimizing rape is minimizing rape, period. Many of these comments were not sarcastic. The ‘now they know how it feels’ comments make me physically ill.
When we discuss why male sexual abuse victims feel uncomfortable with feminist discussion, it’s shit like this which you are currently laughing off that’s why.
Myca, I’m not laughing off anything.
Just as men who say hurtful things about female rape victims shouldn’t be labeled as women haters, dismissed as hateful people and therefore open to personal attack, women who say hurtful things about male victims shouldn’t be labeled as men haters, dismissed as hateful people and therefore open to personal attack.
we rightly call men who make comments about rape teaching women a lesson misogynist–why isnt it appropriate to say the same thing about some of those comments? I think twisty’s post did not meet that standard, but the comments in question did.
In INAFB the problem I see is this linkage:
The offensive comments are then presented as proof. If the comments were critiqued independently of this hypothesis and in the context of the original post, I might view the post as contributing to feminist dialogue. Instead it comes across to me as everyone who disagrees with how she handled the DMDR post are “men haters.”
See, I read it more as “there’s a problem I have with a certain stripe of thought, and here are some examples.”
For what it’s worth, I agree with her. Some people who call themselves feminists do act that way, and it is fucked up. They’re apologists for rape, pure and simple, and deserve exactly as much leeway as any other apologist for rape.
I believe (and I think she’d be one of the first to say) that it’s 100% absolutely positively not most of feminism, or even a significant portion, but it’s a group that’s vocal, and it certainly is discouraging to encounter.
—Myca
Myca, the problem is still that she linked her hypothisis back to the reaction to her DMDR post, but her proof came from a completely different post on a different blog. She reports being given shit, but she hasn’t in fact proven that she was given that shit because she loves and cares about men.
Here’s her opening:
Just a quick comment to say that the links to the comments at Twisty’s were not any kind of ‘proof’ that I was given shit for caring about men. These two things were not linked, I just happened to come across these things at the same time – as I said: ‘a few things that have been on my mind’ – plural, not just one issue . The attacks on me for caring about men came from stormcloud, who has now made her blog private. I wasn’t attacking Twisty, I was just shocked by those particular comments. I am a feminist, I don’t care if people think I hate men, I just also don’t like people categorizing all men in a certain way or saying I am less of a feminist because I care about some men. Myca seems to understand what I was trying to do:
“I also didn’t get the impression that INAFB was actually criticizing ‘feminism’ so much as criticizing a particular phenomenon that she finds disturbing.”
And:
“See, I read it more as “there’s a problem I have with a certain stripe of thought, and here are some examples.” ”
I haven’t read the thread at Ginmar’s because I’m feeling really fragile right now, I am very very upset that people so aggressively misinterpreted what I said.
Laura, my problem isn’t with what you were trying to do, but with how using the Exhibit labeling did in fact create a link for some readers including me — intended or not. I’m not attacking you, but explaining why what you wrote came across a certain way.
This reminds me of nothing as much as the way the conservative half of the blogging community often responds to bad news out of Iraq.
They’ll run up one side and down the other talking about how the reporting creates a negative impression and discourages our troops and weakens the war on terror and is evidence that the reporter is on the other side and they phrased it poorly, etc., etc., etc.
What they don’t do, usually, is challenge the facts. Because the facts are true, they just don’t want people to talk about them.
Well, I think that what Laura said is right on. It’s true. There are some feminists out there who excuse rape and sexual abuse, as long as the victim is a man. It really bothers me that when she says that, there are so many who get upset, not at the people who say shit like that, but upset at her for talking about it . . . because it creates a negative impression, is evidence she’s on the other side, she phrased it poorly, etc.
If what she said is untrue, it’s untrue. If it’s true, it’s true. If you’ve read the rest of her site, you know that excoriating her for not being a feminist is laughable.
The other link I want to draw has to do with the ‘she’s just writing this so men will like her’ charge. She made reference to it in the original post, because it’s a common criticism, and sure enough, it came up pretty quickly here.
As a man, this is something I’m very familiar with from the other side. When I call another man out for his sexism, one of the single most common responses is “oh, you’re just saying that so women will like you,’ or I’ll get accused of being ‘pussywhipped.’ It’s apparently inconceivable that I would say something in favor of the rights or humanity of women because it’s the fair, decent, just thing to say . . . I must have some sort of ulterior motive.
This is because for these people, it’s not about being fair or decent or just, it’s about ‘beating the other side’. It’s a war. All women are the enemy. Well, luckily, I don’t give a fuck about that. I care about being fair, decent, and just. I think that the value of an idea ought to be judged on its merits, not on whether or not it means that ‘the other side; is more or less likely to approve of you.
—Myca
Myca:
I’m sorry, but if you are talking about me you are absolutely wrong. Just because you don’t see or understand the problem I have with that post doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
The easy solution is see me and others who didn’t respond positively to that post as men haters who aggressively misinterpret what she wrote such as:
This is an assumption and not a fact. I believe it is an assumption based on hurt feelings and miscommunication.
To those she labels as ‘some feminists’ her position may be seen as: “the fact that I love and care about men and want their interests to be at the core of all feminist thought and all feminist expression shouldn’t be an issue for any feminists.”
Neither of those assumptions are true IMO so entrenching either one of them unnecessarily deepens rifts.
No, I absolutely don’t see you that way. That’s the point. I believe that you are someone who cares about rape victims and who doesn’t stand for rape apologists, which is why I can’t fathom why you’ve made a point of defending them through all this.
So, to be clear, you do not believe it is true that the fact that Laura loves and cares about men is a big issue for some feminists?
“the fact that I love and care about men and want their interests to be at the core of all feminist thought and all feminist expression shouldn’t be an issue for any feminists.”
No that isn’t what I said in any way, I really have no idea why you think I would think that. I just love some men and I don’t appreciate it when this love is painted as something sickly, as something I should never speak about on my blog, as something which negates my feminism, and I don’t like it when people paint all men as the same, just as I don’t like it when women are painted as all the same. I in NO WAY think men should be at the core of feminism, that is preposterous.
Funny, I’ve always avoided mentioning my boyfriend on my blog because I didn’t want people to think I was more interested in him than in feminism and I didn’t want my blog to be all about men when everything else in the world is – and the one time I do talk about men in a positive light people get up in arms and say I’m not a feminist. Have you seen some of the shit I’ve taken from male commenters in the past? Have you seen the rape threats and the nastiness I received for speaking out against patriarchy and male violence? Yet somehow me writing that I care about my boyfriend and being pissed off that this is seen in some circles as unfeminist is a heinous crime against feminism and proof that I don’t give a shit? Well excuse me if I’m a little miffed.
Myca, first I wasn’t saying that attacking male rape victims or advocating for male rape is okay. There can be no excuses for exploiting others and it is wrong to make light of anyone’s suffering.
Believing someone said or did something unacceptable doesn’t mean I can’t have compassion for the person who stepped over the line. I now have compassion for my boyfriend/rapist, but I would never excuse what he did.
I think that topic is an important one since what people say impacts what people do and can inflict and magnify pain, but the topic got enmeshed with overall characterizations and personal disagreements between different feminists.
I don’t think it is the fact that Laura loves and cares about men that is the core issue for any feminist. How that love and care are implimented within feminism and feminist communities is a huge issue however.
Unfortunately, many people (not just feminists) see that difference as reflecting on the other person’s character and the conflict gets personal. We get: “You hate men.” vs. “You placate men.”
Rather than people having a problem with Laura’s full beliefs they have a problem with what they assume her beliefs to be. Once that happens communication breaks down and stereotypes and resentments get built up.
Laura:
I wasn’t thinking that. My point is that people are reading their own perceptions and biases into what you say which is colored by their past experiences.
I just think that there’s a world of difference between how you’ve responded to this (we need to see it in context and have a shitload of compassion for the rape apologists) and how you’d respond if I said something like “I don’t feel sorry for women who were raped. Hell, maybe it taught them a lesson! Maybe they learned something!”
I think that the difference says a lot.
Myca, if you are trying to create an accurate mirror image the statements would have to be places as exhibits within an entire post that mirrored Laura’s.
If the subject of a post were that men who disagreed with a male writer about men’s role in stopping rape did so because he loves and cares for women, I would still assert that the exhibits don’t reflect the character of all men who don’t agree with the man who wrote the post.
Myca and others, it may help if I revise the section of Laura’s post which hit me wrong by switching the genders.
To make my gender-switch comparison a more accurate comparison, the discussion would have needed to start with a post by this same man asking men what they thought of a male abuse survivor’s new blog name “Rid The World Of Untrustworthy Women.” and saying that he thinks it sends a message advocating the mass murder of women.
re: the examples of feminist reaction to male rape.
I first came across this reaction on a site that had nothing to do with feminism – on a fanfiction thread, where writers were educating each other on avoiding rape myths in their work.
It shocked me then, that women were exulting in the thought that their rapists were suffering in prison what they had suffered. The examples Laura highlighted are still shocking (even though, with the genders reversed they are very true to life).
I haven’t read the relevant thread, but I think it would be fair to say that this is not a feminist issue in that the people who think this way are not limited to, and cannot be stereotyped as any particular kind of feminist.
Laura, if you’re still reading, I was also confused as to why you used examples from an unrelated post on what appeared to be a discussion and summing up of the DMDR thread. Thanks for explaining about that.
Myca,
I meant to reply on my blog but it’s probably a little late now, so I’ll do it here: thank you for coming over and expressing your opinion, also for letting me know this was going on, shit as it has made me feel. You are the ONLY one out of all these people discussing that post that has had the decency to do so. Thank you also for not attempting to characterise and judge me on the basis of one post. Again, you are the only one that has not done this.
Laura
Laura, you are wrong if you believe I am judging you on the basis of one post. I’m not judging you at all. I am responding to what you wrote which seemed to judge a whole group of people based on 3 comments and a blog name.
Laura, the reason I didn’t comment on your blog even though I started to several times is that your commenters seemed to be out for the blood of anyone who disagreed with your assessment.
Abyss, OK, that’s your view, but tbh I was refering to all the people swinging my way from Ginmar’s.
Laura, in case I haven’t been clear I am absolutely against people bashing you personally. People may have their reasons for lashing out, but reasons don’t make bashing the right thing to do. If I came across as bashing you, I sincerely apologize. That was never my intention and I respect how my and other people’s words may have hurt you. Your hurt should be respected just as much as anyone else’s.
When you wrote about holding back on blogging about your boyfriend because of how you would be perceived by other feminists that saddened me. When I was self-destructing months after my first rape it was a man who pulled me out my uncontrolled spin and I don’t know if I would be alive today without him.
Yet many people label me a man hater either directly or through association.
What does “tbh” stand for?
Laura, I’m sorry if my link has added to your stress. It was intended as a friendly link.
To Be Honest.
UrbanDictionary.Com, dude! Get with the program.
Not your fault, Amp, no need to apologise.
Thanks, abyss, I can tell you didn’t mean to bash me, as you put it; if I lashed out it was because I read all the comments on here in one go and it was a bit overwhelming: some lumping of people into one box may have occurred.
Laura, I think there is a lot of misreading, feeling attacked and lashing out going on by a variety of people which was part of what I was trying to say earlier. If the situation didn’t seem to be snowballing into competing bashfests targeting well-intentioned people on both sides, I wouldn’t have said anything about my perceptions.
The power of language is something we should talk about and yet because words have such power that talk can have unwanted side effects.
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