While we are on the subject of minstrel shows and blackface, I thought it would be appropriate to discuss how widely accepted “redface” is in American culture. From the moment I saw this Honda Pilot commercial, I was struck by how similar the troll is to American Indian caricatures. In fact, I was watching the commercial when my partner came in and asked, “Is that supposed to be an Indian?” I said, no, but that’s what really bothers me about the commercial.
Below is a picture of the Honda pilot troll commercial. Now I’m not passing judgement on this commercial by saying it is racist. Instead, I think it is useful to compare the troll to several American Indian mascots.
Here’s the Honda Pilot Troll…
Here’s an “Indian Chief” mascot costume that you can order from anytimecostumes.com
Here’s another costume, which is advertised in the “Animals and Mascots” section
Here are several random caricatures I found on the internet including the infamous Cleveland Indians “Chief Wahoo” mascot.
Yeah, I do think it’s worthwhile to examine some of the racist caricatures that have been used for Native American folk over the years, but it seems silly to think of the commercial as racist as a consequence.
I think of it like the gorilla issue. For centuries, racist whites have been comparing black people to apes or gorillas and using gorilla imagery to paint them as less than human.
Does this make the use of a gorilla in your commercial racist?
Not necessarily. If you’re putting the gorilla in as a stand-in for a black person, yes, or having the gorilla use ‘ghetto-speak’ or breakdance or dress as a rapper or otherwise actually drawing a link between gorillas/apes and black folks, then yes, sure, your imagery is racist. If your gorilla generally does ‘gorilla things,’ then I think it’s okay race-wise (Although probably tacky. Don’t use gorillas.).
I think this troll pretty much does troll things. He speaks in an English accent, asks riddles, and seems to fit somewhere between Shrek and the trollish imagery established by German artist John Bauer in the early 20th century.
I’m certainly open to being convinced otherwise, though.
I think Myca is right, but I would put it differently. That is, I see the connection you are making in this post, but I think the racism goes in the other direction, so to speak. That is, I do not think it is racism to make a troll that happens to look like charactures of American Indians, rather the racism is making chacatures of American Indians that look like trolls.
Myca, That’s not really my point. I guess I should make it clearer. I don’t think the Honda commercial is racist, per se. However, I think it is sad that the depiction of a troll is remarkably similar the depiction of an American Indian.
I see that’s what Decnavda said in the second sentence of #2.
Right. That’s exactly what I was trying to say. I agree completely.
I think it’s the standard depiction of Native Americans as looking like trolls that’s racist, not the depiction of trolls as looking like trolls.
I mean, hey, the dude’s got tusks. What can you do?
Agreed. Chimps, though…chimps can be pretty funny.
YAY! Finally a discussion about my people *L*
Native Americans, not trolls btw.
I’ve seen the commerical…I dont see much of anything but trollish features, though I can see where it does resemble caracatures. Which I hate with a bloody passion.
I think the second costume picture looks remarkably similar to the troll, with the lone exception of the teeth.
*nod* Agreed, Rachel. it’s part and parcel of our attempts to define Native Americans as bloodthirsty savages.
Because, after all, if they’re bloodthirsty savages, then killing them and taking their land isn’t really genocide, it’s self-defense.
This is also why, I think, there are so many Native American sports mascots, and why so many people feel compelled to defend those mascots by saying, “but, it’s an honor!” It’s because to their way of thinking, it is an honor. They’re saying that Native Americans are courageous and strong fighters . . . which is the flip side of being bloodthirsty savages.
It’s disgusting, in any case.
My high school mascot was the Vallejo High Apache, and you can be assured, I raised holy hell about it when I was there. Didn’t get much changed, but it was hell that needed raising.
This makes me think of those caveman Geico ads. The cavemen don’t need to look like any one minority group for the connection to public and political rhetoric to pop up in everyone’s mind.
The troll looks almost exactly like muppets from the movie Labyrinth, made in 1986.
That’s really bizarre: as soon as you said it I could pick out a resemblance. But had you NOT brought it up in that context I probably never would have made the connection at all. (I think it’s the hair which most fits my own visual “link” to other images.)
What does that mean, though? If it’s an association I make only if prompted by an external agent, what then?
Now that you posted this and I agreed with you, I can’t make my mind flexible enough to try it. But I’m really curious as to whether a different post would have been able to convince me that the image matched a stereotype picture of a different class entirely.
I think it’s funny how similar the last Cleveland Indians mascot picture is to the Amp cartoon immediately below it. :)
you are looking *way* too hard for something here. I’ve seen pictures of “trolls” (or similar mythical characters) in European lit as well. As I so frequently have to remind people – there are real, serious issue to discuss; let’s not waste our time trying to find trouble where none exists.
It’s not ” the trolls look like NA. its the stereotypes of NA look like trolls”
It’s sad that people have to whine and create non-existent racist links to a silly car commercial.
Stan, read pheeno’s comment 15. You’re not getting it.
Amp and I were talking about this the other night in regard to certain depictions of gnomes… money-grubbing, big-eared, big-nosed, diminutive critters who look like Jews… see also: Ferengi.
Washington Redskins.
Atlanta Braves.
Kansas City Chiefs.
Cleveland Indians
I have always considered these team names as racist, stereotypical insults to Indians/Native Americans.
Oh well, they’re just Indians.
So invisible in the land that used to be theirs.
Here is a clip to view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wmOEvTk804
One of the commentors in that 5-minute clip stated that America’s “valorizing” Columbus and making him a hero was similar to teaching that Nazi Germany’s Himmler was to be held up as a hero to German citizens, both Gentile and Jew, in 21ST Century Germany.
This would be tantamount to valorizing the savagery of Ben “Pitchfork” Tillman, Cole Blease, and Strom Thurmond being held up as heroes to black Americans.
I’m sure the Native Americans of today are so very thankful for all that the great ‘Admiral of the Sea’ has done for them and the horrific destruction that his appearance in this hemisphere set into motion over 500 years ago.
Black Americans and Native Americans have the most hateful stereotypes directed at them more than any other group in America:
htpp://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2007/06/04/petitions
(For some reason, when I typed in the url address, the http:// does not appear before the url. Put “http://” before the rest of the url (“kathmanduk2…) before you go to the link) The same thing happened with the youtube clip. Put “http://” before the url address to get to the video clip.)
Hope that helps.
I think that Tolkien himself made the same reference in relation to his dwarves.
I really tried but the video doesn’t load. Perhaps it’s a problem with my browser. But I think I have at least an idea of what’s going on. As long as Honda, maker of quality Honda lowering springs , didn’t do something that might oppress the Indians, it would be fine. IMO, it’s really a Native Indian throll.