The White Indians of the Cherokee Nation have voted to revoke the tribal citizenship of Black descendants of the Freedmen (Black Indians in my view). So the descendants of the Freedmen can no longer be members of the tribe. The vote was overwhelming.
With all 32 precincts reporting, 76.6 percent had voted in favor of an amendment to the tribal constitution that would limit citizenship to descendants of “by blood” tribe members as listed on the federal Dawes Commission’s rolls from more than 100 years ago.
I have written about the background of this case before, and even people who are known descendants of tribal leaders are being kicked out. The evidence that the Freedmen are of Cherokee descent is strong, and the leader of the Cherokees, realizes that the Freedmen are indeed of Cherokee ancestry.
When the Dawes Rolls were created, those with any African blood were put on the Freedmen roll, even if they were half Cherokee. Those with mixed-white and Cherokee ancestry, even if they were seven-eighths white and one-eighth Cherokee, were put on the Cherokee by blood roll. More than 75 percent of those enrolled in the Cherokee Nation have less than one-quarter Cherokee blood, the vast majority of them of European ancestry.
Marilyn Vann said she could not believe that one election could determine whether she was allowed to claim Cherokee blood.
“There are Freedmen who can prove they have a full-blooded Cherokee grandfather who won’t be members,” said Ms. Vann, president of the Descendants of Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes. “And there are blond people who are 1/1000th Cherokee who are members.”
Mike Miller, the Cherokee Nation spokesman, agreed.
“We are aware that there are those who can prove Indian blood who are not Cherokee citizens, because they are not on the Dawes ‘by blood’ Rolls,” Mr. Miller said. “But I don’t know of a single tribe that determines citizenship through a bunch of sources.”
In the spirit of keeping it real, I can’t understand for the life of me why anyone who is of Native American/First Nations descent would use a document like the Dawes Rolls which was drafted using the United States definitions of race to determine ancestry. I hope that they would understand how the US governments treaties and documents have never been used in a way that uplifts Native peoples, which is why relying on those documents should be obviously wrong. People who have been so decimated by racism should really know better than to engage in this racist behavior.
But unfortunately this is part of a pattern, as the quote below from the New York Times notes. Ann pointed out to me that this had happened with the Black Seminoles in 2003.
This is the second time in recent years that an Indian nation has tried to remove its Freedmen. The Seminole Freedmen won a similar legal battle in 2003.
The Seminoles were formed when refugees from several tribes joined with runaway slaves. But after the Seminoles denied their Freedmen voting rights and financial benefits, effectively abrogating the Treaty of 1866, the federal government refused to recognize the Seminoles as a sovereign nation.
The Cherokees are also risking their tribal sovereignty, said Jon Velie, a lawyer for the Seminole and Cherokee Freedmen.
“There is this racial schism in Indian Country that is growing and getting worse,” Mr. Velie said. “Even having the debate is the problem. You then become a lesser person because people get to decide whether you’re in or not.”
Taylor Keen, a Cherokee tribal council member who supports Freedmen citizenship, suggested that proponents of the amendment were pandering to racism, trying to score political points for when they run for tribal office in June.
“This is a sad chapter in Cherokee history,” Mr. Keen said. “But this is not my Cherokee Nation. My Cherokee Nation is one that honors all parts of her past.”
Personally, I wonder if this racial split is related to the resurgence in Indian identity, where you have many people now claiming Indian ancestry, who had previously been living as Blacks or Whites. I suspect that many of these leaders have an identity that is just as tied to whiteness as it is to Cherokeeness. The White Indians really disappoint me. It is their lighter skin and lack of visible African ancestry that is allowing them to engage in such racism. If the tribe didn’t want to be so racist, they would accept a broad definition of “Cherokee” that was not based on the US government. Let’s be real– since when did the US government act in the best interest of First Nations people?
It would be an an ironic twist if the Cherokees lose tribal sovereignty for excluding the Freedmen’s descendants. First, they tried to rely on a US government document, which applied two versions of a one drop rule. Then later the US decides, “hey because you used our old document, we are taking your sovereignty.”
This is indeed a sad day, when we see racism being used to divide and conquer, and it provides some evidence for the irrationality of racism. Here we have people who don’t even act in the best interest of themselves because of their biased views. This is a glaring example of institutionalized racism at its worst.
FurryCatHerder wrote:
“There were three different lists made — “Cherokee”, “Freedmen” and “Intermarried White”. What the vote says is that you must have an ancestor on the “Cherokee” roll in order to be a member of the tribe.”
So, “intermarried white” are voted excluded as much as “freedmen”?
I’m really confused now. If over 65% of the votes were for this decision, and a majority (?) of the Cherokee have some white blood, aren’t these same people voting themselves off the roll?
But never mind. I can see the real issue is with separating the Freedmen from the Cherokee nation. I just don’t understand why the voters would vote themselves out in order to vote out the Freedmen as well. Something is wrong with this picture, and I don’t mean racism. Something else?
Thanks, Rachel, for the link to Cornsilk’s comment. It helped, but I’m still lost.
“The point being Jewish life isn’t all potato pancakes and chocolate coins, as I imagine Cherokee life isn’t all bread and roses, either. ”
I think we’d say it’s not all frybread and kanutche. :)
But I’m glad you brought up Judaism, because I think that is an excellent analogy. Judaism is a culture/religion and also a race and also a nationality. There are converted Jews, Jews of other races (like the ones evacuated from Uganda) and there are non-practicing and assimilated Jews, both voluntary and (like the conversos from Spain) involuntary. And, much like NDNs, there are Jews who worry they are “losing their identity” through intermarriage, abandonment of tradition and so forth. I can’t speak to other tribes, because my knowledge of their traditions is limited, but there are adopted Cherokee (most famously Sam Houston, adopted son of Chief John Jolly), Cherokee by birth or blood, and Cherokee by citizenship (like the Shawnee, the Delaware and the Freedmen). What counts, though, or rather what should count, and what does count in my view, is whether or not you are a “practicing” Cherokee. I don’t care how dark your skin is or how far back you have to go to find a full-blood (the last full-blood directly related to me was born in 1855); what I want to know is, do your kids grow up hearing stories about the Little People and the Thunder Beings? Does your momma or grandmaw have a treasured kanutche recipe? Do you go to the PowWows and the stomp dances? If you don’t speak the language, are you at least trying to learn? Do you get choked up when you hear “Amazing Grace” sung in Cherokee? Do you know why “Amazing Grace” is so significant? Have you walked some part of nunna daul tsunyi? How did you feel when you did? Do you refuse to use twenty dollar bills? Have you ever broken a bone (yours or someone else’s) playing stickball? The essence of being Cherokee is not DNA, but culture, history and tradition. Every single year, there are fewer and fewer full-bloods. Eventually, there will be none. But if there are people who remember, and people who treasure those memories and honor those traditions, then there will always be Cherokee.
Hey Justicewalks good point. As you probably know, for Native Americans it’s essential to separate from blacks to maintain their sovereignty. There is a direct negative correlation between the percentage of so called black members and the federal government’s willingness to recognize a tribe.
A perfect example is the Catawba and the Lumbee. The Catawba voluntarily dismantled their Nation but were able to reclaim it, for a lot of reasons, but in part because of their antipathy towards blacks. On the other hand, the Lumbee have fought for recognition for over a hundred years and haven’t been recognized because they have “black” members.
So the Cherokee decision was an image decision motivated by American racist stereotypes, embraced by the Cherokee, regarding who is and isn’t indigenous.
I think the federal government should let the Western Cherokee keep their casinos but grant recognition to the Freedmen of the Five “Civilized” Tribes. I’m sure they’d love that. (By the way, Pheeno’s tribe, the Eastern Cherokees have fought against recognition of the Lumbee)
“Being white doesn’t preclude you from being Cherokee. Obviously. ”
Sorry, Im not white. And Im not going to identify myself with labels *you* find suitable. Be it person of color, “black indian” “white indian” or anything else *you* think I should consider myself. I’m Aniyunwiya. Im not white or black, thanks.
“I suggest all of you read this comment over at John Cornsilk’s site. It does a good job clarifying some of the history issues related to this vote. Cornsilk has followed this very closely and has been an activist on the Freedmen issue for years. ”
Im well aware of John Cornsilk and his site. For much of it I agree, but please do understand he doesnt speak for all of us and much of his Cherokee are “white” is opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
“I don’t care how dark your skin is or how far back you have to go to find a full-blood (the last full-blood directly related to me was born in 1855); what I want to know is, do your kids grow up hearing stories about the Little People and the Thunder Beings? Does your momma or grandmaw have a treasured kanutche recipe? Do you go to the PowWows and the stomp dances? If you don’t speak the language, are you at least trying to learn? Do you get choked up when you hear “Amazing Grace” sung in Cherokee? Do you know why “Amazing Grace” is so significant? Have you walked some part of nunna daul tsunyi? How did you feel when you did? Do you refuse to use twenty dollar bills? Have you ever broken a bone (yours or someone else’s) playing stickball? The essence of being Cherokee is not DNA, but culture, history and tradition. Every single year, there are fewer and fewer full-bloods. Eventually, there will be none. But if there are people who remember, and people who treasure those memories and honor those traditions, then there will always be Cherokee. ”
Dont bother. Obviously, to many here we’re white and we all think like borg or something. Tribe must mean hive mind now or something.
I just don’t understand why the voters would vote themselves out in order to vote out the Freedmen as well.
Maybe for the same reasons that some oppose affirmative action, never imagining they may one day end up, say, maimed or disabled fighting in Iraq and, therefore, benefit from policies that discourage discrimination against people for involuntary, inalterable, and/or irrelevant conditions like blackness or disability.
Brian: I knew that the Lumbee were struggling to be recognized, but I didn’t know the circumstances of their ordeal. There isn’t a whole lot being written on the subject.
As for whiteness being stipulated upon shafting blacks, I think maye DuBois was the first to make that observation, in relation to Eastern and Southern European immigrants, among others.
In response to Eva (and justicewalks), I think they are referencing whites who were married to Cherokees (of any blood quantum). For example, if I was married to someone in the Cherokee nation, I would be an intermarried white.
I could be wrong, but I think that is what we are talking about.
“I think the federal government should let the Western Cherokee keep their casinos but grant recognition to the Freedmen of the Five ‘Civilized’ Tribes.”
“Let”? Well, gee, that would be awfully nice of the federal government to “let” a sovereign nation govern its own affairs. Maybe they should airdrop the 101st Airborne into Tahlequah to force a regime change…
“(By the way, Pheeno’s tribe, the Eastern Cherokees have fought against recognition of the Lumbee)”
The Cherokee Nation opposed them, too. And I criticized both of them for it.
http://thelocalcrank.blogspot.com/2006/07/tecumseh-would-weep.html
And it was pretty much solely over casino revenue, which is sad, but a sign of the times.
“Dont bother. Obviously, to many here we’re white and we all think like borg or something. Tribe must mean hive mind now or something.”
Hah! That’s the second time I’ve heard that; Wampum was saying that some whites view NDNs as “IndianBorg,” a faceless generic mass. As I said then, anyone who believes NDNs are all alike has never been to a powwow, an intertribal conference on ANYTHING or the message boards at Indianz.com.
do na da ga hv i
Rachel S:
I believe that is correct. An intermarried white was a white person married to a Cherokee. Under the new laws, those who claim CN citizenship through an IW ancestor on the Dawes list (but who don’t have a “Cherokee by Blood” ancestor on the list) will lose their tribal citizenship just like the Freedmen. The difference is that (as far as I can tell), they can’t claim any protection under the 1866 treaty (or any other treaty). Therefore, their status in relationship to the CN is strictly a CN matter, and there would be no basis for the federal government to interfere.
Brian:
As a general rule, individual citizens do not have any right to demand that the government follow, ignore or enforce a treaty. I believe one of the arguments in the current federal lawsuit between the freedmen and the Secretary of the Interior is that because of the trust relationship, the BIA has some obligation to protect their rights under the treaty. However, while the court has not dismissed the lawsuit, it hasn’t ruled on the merits yet either.
Whether the federal government should pressure the CN to let the Freedmen back in is something on which reasonable people can disagree. For the court to say that the federal government *must* do so would be pretty extraordinary. Also, let’s put things in perspective. Unless I’m mistaken (and I’m sure Crank will correct me if I am), in 1866, neither the Freedmen nor the Cherokee by blood would have had any citizenship other than Cherokee. That’s not true today. The freedmen are not being rendered stateless. They are still citizens of the United States (aside from a few who might have Canadian or other citizenship) and of the states where they reside. Therefore, while many people, including many Cherokee, think that kicking them out was a bad thing, it doesn’t rise to the level of a human rights violation (as it might have 140 years ago).
“…in 1866, neither the Freedmen nor the Cherokee by blood would have had any citizenship other than Cherokee.”
Persons of African descent (and every0ne else, except Indians, “born or naturalized in the United States”) were made US citizens upon the ratification of the 14th Amendment in 1868. So, the Cherokee Nation made their freed slaves citizens BEFORE anyone else did. Indians did not become US citizens until the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924. In fact, Indians were not even considered human beings under US law until the case of Standing Bear vs. George Crook in 1879, a decision that was promptly ignored with regard to everyone besides Standing Bear on the direct orders of General William Tecumseh Sherman. In an interesting example of history repeating itself, the Standing Bear case was about the application of habeas corpus to “unlawful enemy combatants.” Judge Kennedy specifically cited the 14th Amendment (which was applied to tribal governments via a Supreme Court case from the 1970’s that I’m too tired to look up at the moment) as grounds for revoking the Cherokee Nation’s sovereign immunity so that the Freedmen could sue in federal court.
Actually, Judge Kennedy based his ruling on the 13th Amendment, and even indicated in his opinion that the 14th amendment doesn’t apply. His reasoning is that denial of voting based on race is a “badge and incident of slavery,” which the 13th Amendment prohibits (and which has been applied to private organizations, not just to governmental bodies, like the 14th Amendment). Good example of “result-oriented jurisprudence.”
And it still remains to be seen how he will rule on the merits (and whether a ruling in favor of the Freedmen will be upheld on appeal). While the Freedmen and their supporters have every right to put political pressure on the BIA to deny recognition to CN elections in which they are blocked from voting, for the court to *order* the BIA to do so would (in my humble opinion) be pretty outrageous.
“Actually, Judge Kennedy based his ruling on the 13th Amendment, and even indicated in his opinion that the 14th amendment doesn’t apply. His reasoning is that denial of voting based on race is a ‘badge and incident of slavery,’ which the 13th Amendment prohibits (and which has been applied to private organizations, not just to governmental bodies, like the 14th Amendment).”
You are absolutely correct, it was the 13th not the 14th. This is why I shouldn’t be blogging at 1:45AM. I also agree that it is unlikely Judge Kennedy would order the BIA to do anything. If they are consistent with their response in the Seminole case, the BIA might on its own accord refuse to recognize any tribal election which excludes the Freedmen. Judge Kennedy could, I suppose, grant the Freedmen an injunction against the June elections. Courts are normally extremely reluctant to interfere in elections (unless its the Supreme Court in 2001), but this is pretty much uncharted legal territory. I am just afraid that no matter what happens, it won’t end well for the CN.
Localcrank: Don’t you find it ironic that some people of the CN who appear white are receiving reparations through the avenue of quasi-sovereignty while people who are black AND indigenous have received no reparations?
“They are still citizens of the United States (aside from a few who might have Canadian or other citizenship) and of the states where they reside. Therefore, while many people, including many Cherokee, think that kicking them out was a bad thing, it doesn’t rise to the level of a human rights violation (as it might have 140 years ago).”
Paul1552 : You’re a pretty good lawyer. Based on your reasoning rescinding the CN’s sovereign status would also not violate their citizen’s human rights because they’re also American citizens. True?
Paul1552 and Local Crank: Your analysis regarding the potential remedy that may be granted to the Freedmen ignores their equal status as Cherokees. I understand the sacrosanct position of sovereignty, but as Judge Kennedy pointed out, the doctrine of sovereignty doesn’t trump the 13th Amendment. As an aside, almost every case involving important fundamental rights involves results driven jurisprudence. It just comes down to which fundamental right is more important to the court.
I think of human rights issues as involving the rights of individual human beings. The Local Crank is more familiar with what remedies (judicial or otherwise) would be available to the CN if it’s sovereignty were to be rescinded), but those remedies would belong to the tribe, as an institution, and not to its individual members.
As for Judge Kennedy’s opinion, I don’t have a problem with his holding that the 13th Amendment applies to NA tribes (which the Supreme Court held about 100 years ago). It’s the idea that denying someone the right to vote in a tribal election is a “badge and incident of slavery” that I think is a stretch.
Aren’t the Freedmen a group of individuals forming a Nation in the same way that Americans became a Nation after they split from Great Britain? All Nations or tribes are formed by individuals and the Cherokees decided to split from the U.S. and join the Confederacy. To reclaim their Nation they promised to grant citizenship to ALL people residing in their Nation.
It’s a “badge and incident of slavery” if the motivation is to deny someone the right to vote because they were slaves. The Right to Vote is essential to citizenship. Remember the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and the Civil Rights Movement?
Your analogy would make more sense if the Freedmen were trying to split from the Cherokee and establish their own federally recognized tribe (in which case they could hardly complain about being expelled from the Cherokee Nation).
In any case, I think we are getting into an esoteric area that’s of interest only to lawyers (and sometimes only after they’ve had a couple of drinks).
Your original question was it was the U.S. government’s “obligation” to ignore the terms of the 1866 treaty. And for the reasons I’ve already stated, I believe the answer to that question is no. I believe that the BIA *can* put pressure one way or the other on the CN to restore citizenship rights to the Freedman, but I don’t believe it’s required to do so. Whether it should do so is a matter for debate, and whether it will do so is anyone’s guess.
“In any case, I think we are getting into an esoteric area that’s of interest only to lawyers (and sometimes only after they’ve had a couple of drinks). ”
I’ll take bourbon and branch water, please.
I bath in blood of the crow” i drink of the moa-ton” i run the hills of my nation and see black men and i see white men but they are not cherokee they will never be cherokee! no color makes you cherokee! you can not live as cherokee and be cherokee! you are born cherokee your father is cherokee you mother is cherokee then you are cherokee onley 100% are cherokee! the rest just wanabe cherokee” if you bread with any other you no cherokee.
As my father told me when i was a young brave feel the wind on your face young su-na-bear and know you are a cherokee becuase no man but cherokee feels the wind as we.
I really don’t see what the big deal is. If the Cherokee nation wants to decide who is a tribal member and who isn’t, then fine! They have that right. And I do think that skin color counts for something. If you have African DNA, it will be quite obvious (for the most part) because of your physical characteristics. I don’t see how or why anyone with just a smidgen of NA blood (or none at all), like the Mashantucket Pequots for example, would insist that they’re Native American. I guess the bottom line is money. If I had my way, the criteria would be this: Both parents or one parent must be full-blooded Native Americans. Maybe that’s harsh, but there has to be a cutoff at some point, or you’ll have everybody and his grandmother claiming to be part NA (which an incredible number of people do already). Another qualifier: do you speak or have relatives who speak your tribe/band’s language? Are you aware of your cultural history? I say this because there have been “tribes” that have been granted federal recognition, but have absolutely no knowledge of their culture, language, etc. They’ve had to adopt the culture of other tribes! I don’t know- this whole issue is confusing. All I can say is that the Cherokee have every right to want to preserve their heritage in any way they choose when there are so many threats and so many “wannabees” these days.
Whether this is a “big deal” is an matter on which reasonable persons (both Cherokee and non-Cherokee) can–and do–have differences of opinion. At least two participants in this thread have already expressed their individual opinions from a Cherokee perspective.
From a non-Cherokee perspective, the reason this is potentially a big deal is that around 1866 the Cherokee Nation (who had the misfortune of backing the losing side in the Civil War) entered into a treaty with the federal government in which it agreed to grant citizenship to the Freedmen and their descendants (apparently without any requirement that they have even a drop of Cherokee blood in their veins). So the federal government is faced with the question as to whether, and how, it should pressure the Cherokee Nation to comply with the treaty (keeping in mind of course that the federal government’s record of compliance with treaty obligations is far from perfect and that a lot has changed since 1866).
That’s partly because an incredible number of people are part NA, human beings being what we are. (No power on earth has ever prevented people from interbreeding.) One of my grandfathers was a Creek – not that anyone in the older generations is happy about this – but I certainly don’t consider myself a Native American (though I do wonder about that set of ancestors).
One of my grandmothers (the other one) was an immigrant from Germany, and I certainly consider myself of German heritage, but that’s because I grew up with her and learned a lot about that part of my inheritance. That would underline what a lot of people here have said about culture. How much of a Native American are you, really, if all there is is the blood connection?
“That’s partly because an incredible number of people are part NA, ”
It’s funny though how a great deal of them are a small percentage of NA and a much larger percentage of another ethnicity or race, yet NA is the one they’re hellbent on claiming. I guess being mostly Irish or German or whathaveyou doesnt offer college scholarships.
Like some mentioned in the DNA article. They had less than 1% NA, and something like 39% european plus some odd percent something else, yet they didnt claim that european heritage. If ancestry and heritage were actually what they cared about, you’d think they’d claim the 39% and not the 1%.
Assuming – I think correctly, this was way back in the day, I’m in my sixties, and my Dad was a late-born child, as was I – that my Creek grandfather was 100% Creek, this makes me 25% NA.
But I don’t have the culture. I know next to nothing about the Creeks. All this was a reluctantly admitted secret in the family. After the admixture of everything else, I don’t look particularly NA – well, maybe just a little, but you’d never pick it out. I would never claim that heritage as my own.
You wonder, though. Who was he? What was his experience, his reality? Through him, part of me goes back to the immigrants over the land bridge from Mongolia, thousands of years ago, thousands of miles away from Europe. There’s no way, now, to know much about it.
Parentage is a funny thing. There’s some study that purports to show that if your family has been in the US for X generations, you have a Y% chance (not a negligible number) of having at least one African ancestor. But in a few generations, all that information is lost, even in populations which keep “records,” not to mention populations that don’t. (Also, people lie a lot.)
They say we’re all related. And we are.
I’m not knowledgeable about this issue, but I have been sort of reading along the past few days, and what pheeno says in #123 strikes me as the crux of the whole issue.
If it’s not particularly glamourous to be more Dutch/German than Native American, a lot of people will plump for the Native American identity–even if it actually represents a much smaller part of their genetic and cultural heritage.
Hey there, Crys T, I’m 25% German and proud of it! Who says that’s not glamorous??
Speaking of glamor, my nephew, who is 12.5% NA through his father – my brother – and 50% Central American NA through his mother (which makes 62.5%), and much of the rest German, is as glamorous as you could ask.
Also prone to high cholesterol through his NA mother (oh and by the way my German grandmother, this kid’s great grandmother, died of heart disease at 55), this guy was slated to be Wide As A Barn, on both sides. It’s only through eating like a bird that he’s maintained his weight where he needs it to be. His mom, my sister-in-law, had a quadruple bypass five years ago, and he has no desire whatever to follow suit.
We’re mostly all mongrels here. Ever hear of Hybrid Vigor?
“It’s funny though how a great deal of them are a small percentage of NA and a much larger percentage of another ethnicity or race, yet NA is the one they’re hellbent on claiming. I guess being mostly Irish or German or whathaveyou doesnt offer college scholarships.”
Amen, pheeno – that was my point exactly.
“(keeping in mind of course that the federal government’s record of compliance with treaty obligations is far from perfect and that a lot has changed since 1866)”
That is the understatement of the century (literally). For example, the Cherokee are entitled through (at least) two treaties to have a delegatre to Congress. Do you see a Cherokee delegate to Congress? Have you ever?
Really, the only thing the feds could do is the same thing they did to the Okla. Seminole, claim that a tribal council elected without the Freedmen is fraudulent and cut off their BIA funding. CN, being relatively self-sufficient, could weather that better than the Seminole, but not forever. And I’m sure the UKB would immediately file suit to claim all the federal funds.
Ah well, the century is only 6 years old.
You will no doubt be able to point out others, but I’ve only found one treaty that talks about a Cherokee delegate to Congress (1835), which says that the Cherokee will be entitled to a delegate in the House of Representatives “whenever Congress shall make provision for the same.” So I guess if the Cherokee want their delegate, they’re going to start sending cards and letters to their representatives in Congress. As I said, though, a lot has changed since 1835 (and since 1866), and an argument can be made that since NA’s are now U.S. citizens, they can participate in the election of representatives in the districts where they live and therefore no longer have a need for a delegate to represent them (unlike residents of Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, D.C. etc.).
A similar argument can be made on behalf of those CN members who want to kick out the Freedmen: times have changed since 1866, and the freedmen also are now citizens of the U.S. and of the state where they live, so loss of Cherokee citizenship won’t render them stateless.
First, I’m not convinced that the Feds *should* do anything. If the CN has made a mess (as many people both inside and outside the tribe seem to think), perhaps the best thing is to let them fix it. So, if the Feds do decide to take action, I hope it’s limited to the BIA cutting off funding. However, between Judge Kennedy’s innovative jurisprudence and the Congressional Black Caucus’s taking up the Freedmen’s cause, I wouldn’t count on it. As for the UKB, its disputes with the CN seem like a family quarrel that we outsiders won’t ever really understand.
Well I did not know what to think when I heard what was done. I don’t understand labeling people wannabe’s just because they acknowledge that part of themselves. I have heard this from a Native or two and it
ridiculous.
Black people can’t do that now, I guess. Basing this on skin color is ridiculous. Coloring doesn’t denote percentage at all. My family ranges from deep chocolate to albino black we don’t count the lighter ones (including myself) as LESS black.
Well whatever…!
My grandmother was black Cherokee, now how about that?
If this is what she was—this is what she was. I for one am not about to deny it just because some look down on us for not being fullbloods or you just don’t want other races in your ranks. That’s YOUR issue.
What’s more my fiance’s father was half Seminole. He’s a Floridian. It’s ‘nole country. lol. And I had a friend who was some parts Creek.
Anyway it’s not like any of us are running around trying to join the Cherokee Nation, or Creek and Seminole orgs or anything. It’s not like we consider ourselves to be full-bloods here.
I don’t know anyone with Native blood who claims it for the money and assets. That’s not what it’s about.
I did think this whole incident was sad and uncalled fore…UNTIL I ran into this woman, then I rethought things.
She said that her great great grandfather owned land in a Cherokee reservation and she wanted to know if there was a way that she could prove blood relations with the Cherokees.
So I say, “Well nothing appreciates like real estate but….what a minute–are you of cherokee blood or are you just trying to get at their land?”
I mean how unethical is that? Really…?
I told her about what was going on with Black Cherokees and told her to be wary. I wasn’t sure if white people would face the same issues.
I told her that if she did make it in to at least try to learn about the culture so she could develop some respect for it.
It shameless.
So…I do understand why they did such a thing. They must protect their own interests and people. Would be better if they did it to everyone though.
I have on idea why I”m wasting my time on an issue that doesn’t directly effect me but , here I go. 1). I’d like to address the narrow-minded skin color comments, especially #120. Skin color is NOT an indicator of race or an indicator of how much “blood” you have of some other race. I know many mixed-race people who all look different. Even in the same family. My father is black as the ace of spades. Some of his br/sis are much lighter. They all have the same Native Amer grandfather. Is my father any LESS Indian because he’s dark? ( obviously to some he is) That’s not fair! When a lighter skinned person claims mixed heritage it’s OK because they “look” it. But if you’re darker skinned, like myself, you’re just a ni**er! I have Irish, German, French, Indian and Jewish blood in me. But I’m not allowed to claim it because of my skin color?? That makes me a “wannabe”?? I don’t WANT to be Irish, German etc…I AM!!! Which leads me to another comment.
2). Comment #122 asked, ” How much much of a NA are you, really, if all there is is the blood connection?” I understand your point but it’s not equally applied. For example. I have never been to Africa, know nothing about Africa and would have to go back at least 8 generations to find an African native in my family ( further on my mom’s side). Yet that doesn’t stop people from calling me an AFRICAN- AMERICAN now does it? ( a designation I protest for the previously mentioned reasons) I only have to go back 3 or 4 generations to find a full-blooded NA on my father’s side and 4 or 5 on my mother’s. I know more about the NA culture than I do African. I even have a NA last name but I’m still just BLACK! I think many people of mixed ancestry that includes African/Black never bothered to learn about their other blood because they were told it didn’t matter. If you have a Asian parent and Black parent …you’re BLACK, even if your eyes are slanted and your hair is straight. If you have a South American parent and a Black parent…you’re BLACK, even if you speak perfect Spanish. So, first you take away a person’s right or desire to learn about their heritage then you criticize them for not knowing anything about it. NICE!!
3). Going back to comment #120 again. I agree, the Nation should have a right to decise who is a member and who isn’t. But don’t you think they should be consistent/fair about it. The 2nd box from the top said it all.
The Dawes Rolls were discrimnatory. How can a person who is 50% be out and a person who is 12.5% be in? Blatant racism/colorism, that’s how.
Just for the record, in case my reasonableness is in question, I also agree that having a great, great great, great whatever shouldn’t count. You should at least 25%. ( applying to those not currently on a rez and/or don’t own property)
“Just for the record, in case my reasonableness is in question, I also agree that having a great, great great, great whatever shouldn’t count. You should at least 25%. ( applying to those not currently on a rez and/or don’t own property)”
I agree with everything you’ve said, exept this. Blood quanta restrictions are, ultimately, a suicide pact, unless your tribe is very isolated geographically (like the Dine, for example). And that’s exactly what they were intended to be by the white government that invented the entire concept of blood quanta in the first place. Their plan was to “breed” us out of existence by making us more and more “white” (and thus more “civilized”) with each passing generation. If we applied a 1/4 blood quanta restriction, then the greatest chief in Cherokee history, John Ross, wouldn’t even be a member of the tribe he lead for 30 years, since he was “only” 1/8. Nor do I think we should limit membership to those who live (much less those who own property) in Indian Country. Tribes are sovereign nations, after all; a US citizen can live overseas for most of his life, but he doesn’t stop being a US citizen. I think the determining factor should be culture and involvement in the life of the tribe. I would rather see a “thin blood” of 1/256th who has nevertheless tried to learn the language, participates in tribal life, attends the stomp dances, & teaches his or her children the old stories, then 50 1/4th bloods who regard their CDIB card as just another form of ID, never vote, never participate, and ignore the culture and traditions their forefathers fought and died to preserve.
I am a registered American Indian, who walks the walk and talks the talk. I am of the Cherokee tribe but not registered with them. I am also a Creek Citizen. I am also Choctaw. I am also Irish, German and Dutch. Although, I feel empathy for the freedman and wished the Cherokee could have been better than the U.S. Government concerning slavery, I also feel we have to narrow the blood quantum. I work with the American Indian everyday, there are few that are full-blooded. More that are 3/4 and still even more that are less. I believe preservation is imminent. As far as the Casino thing goes, I’ve yet to see any money from it in my own pocket. So, you can give that one up. Depending on what type of government freebies your talking about, I know in tribe it goes by blood quantum. The more you have, the more you get. The less you have, the less you get. I believe most tribes work this way. Anyway there’s my two cents, take it or leave it.
The voices of our native ancestors speak!
They may lie buried in the dust from battles gone by,
but…volumes of truth rise beyond the dirt!
There are no screams to be heard, no drums beat, only through
voices of our ancestors, the spirit speaks, rising above the earth
Volumes of truth lives in the hearts of this generation
One that isn’t afraid to speak, and fears not what a racist will do
The Great Spirit has given me the breath of courage
Do not fear voices of our ancestors speak…for we went down fighting
No time to weep
To this modern generation of today, listen
The voices of our ancestors speak
Speaking to the heart of understanding, even though reason appears deceitful
Fight like the warriors of the past, but do it in a way where mental stimulation
is something,to be feared.
Not giving in to the lust of greed, but let the voices of our ancestors lead
us to freedom
Reason if you must, but with the true spirit, voices of our ancestors
continue to represent truth as it’s constantly brought before the light
and like a flame burning through the night, listen closely…you’ll hear the voices of our
ancestors as they ride furiously, confronting life, ready to do battle!
Sheryl D. Martin Cherokee Citizen
P.S. To be an Indian warrior today one must educate their mind, and the best battles
will be won with ink on paper, without blood!
Sheryl, Beautifully written.. MVTO
All this talk about being Native American with the U.S. government’s intervention is all so common in Central America, and South America, also. As a member of the pocomam clan of the northern Maya of El Salvador, I could see the relevance of becoming a member of a tribe, either by blood quantum or national identity. Weren’t the founding fathers and colonist dressing and acting as Mohawk Indians in the Boston Tea Party a representation of identifying with a nation that symbolized liberty and justice. Of course, you can lie to yourself’s all you want, about the Glorious Revolution, The New England Confederacy, and the Switzerland Confederacy that failed by forcing (coercing) theyre subjects by the kings decree, theocratic government, and conflict of interest. In my nation, and in the country of El Salvador marriage between the Maya nation and African’s was prohibited, not by color, since most of us range in hue; from very dark to very light; but, by culural practices and our right to preserve our nationality in a country that persecutes Indigenous peoples. It is preservation that we the indigenous people want, not just sovereignty.
Vine Deloria jr, once said in order for African Americans to empower themselves, they must tribalize. For time and space defines who you are. It is impossible to connect to a land that you cannot relate to interms of history; family generations and holy places.
Hopefully our coming generations will get the opportunity to really learn the contributions that our Native American nations have made to Democracy, Nationalism, Socialism and even the convoluted Communism; through the Six Leauge of the Iroquoi, though hotly debated against for it’s multicultural posture, is outright racist. The history of the United States begins with runaway peoples of both European and African peoples seeking refuge within “we the people”.
Pheeno, Native Americans have the right to decide their affairs. But if geneaology,documentation, and acquaintance with Native Americans is shown, those Black Native Americans should be accepted. Also, alot of black people in that area may very well have the blood-both recent and past-along with the knowledge of customs and traditions. I do see some of where some Native Americans are coming from because groups are never popular until they gain influence or money-and then undependable allies and ‘distant kin” come out the woodworks. Kinda like the person that get contacted by long lost friends and distant family when they win the lottery! So it should proceed with seriousness and caution and awareness of some uncomfortable facts.Fine. But everybody that are elgible for recognition and benefits are not wannabe Native Americans. They have the blood, have the documentation, and know Native American customs-too boot. In other words, alot to show for it. Those people should not be assumed to be liars if this is the case;and, alot of people making these calls on who is native and who is not are mixed breed white Natives themselves. They do not seem to be that interested in distinguishing between whose fake and whose not in some instances. It seems hypocritical that this blood quantum rule does not seem to be applied to the same level when it comes to whites-Natives either. This smacks of racism, classism, and elitism of the snubbest sort from some of these people. Many of the people being denied lived,intermarried,had children with,worked, and followed the customs of Native Americans during the time of enslavement. in alot of cases because of it.
No historical tie? Remember these people were living on the Cherokee Nation,helped build the Cherokee Nation and suffered with the Cherokee Nation and are as connected to the Cherokee Nation as the 200,000 Cherokees who did not vote.
Exactly. One third of the Trial of Tears victims are believed to have been black, many no doubt with Native American blood-and their descendants too with both past/present blood. Which is not surprising because 80 % of African Americans are estimated to have Native American blood-with some of them acquainted with Native Americans and married today. Someone states that Cherokees have the agency to decide who to accept. That is true, but don’t Black Native Americans have a right to acknowledge their dual heritage and fight against marginality-especially if they have the proof of this,documentation, and the knowledge of customs.
My problem is with the descendants that have nothing to do with us, never think about us until it benefits them, don’t identify with us, know nothing about us except myth and T.V. stereotypes, and “use” our heritage. Because its “cool” or they think they can get something from it.
You get no argument from me on this. I am not Native American and I take issue with these charlatans as well be they black or white. Hence I respect your arguments and see why you say what you say in many instances. It just seems that these officials deciding these matters are not doing a thorough of distinguishing the genuine Black Native Americans from the “johnny come lately” Native Americans. This denies the Black-Native Americans their recognition and “benefits” that are truly this! That is my issue. Denying a Black Native American the rightful opportunities to be recognize and able to receive benefits is as bad as denying a reservation Native in true need in favor of a well off “fair weather” Native American. I understand the anger there, I just hope some one Black/Native American do not get denied what is due them on this fear, racism, or classism. The black-white divide should not always be but alot of the people making these calls are rich white mixed breeds that were probably not down for the NDN cause till it was cool and bit influential. I may be generalizing, but I do not rule out this scenario because I see mixed white/people of color do this all the time.
‘My problem is with the descendants that have nothing to do with us, never think about us until it benefits them, don’t identify with us, know nothing about us except myth and T.V. stereotypes, and “use” our heritage. Because its “cool” or they think they can get something from it.’
Yet the overwhelming majority of Cherokee who are like this (and there are many), the ones who are quick to demand their CDIB card but never vote in tribal elections, never attend the stompdances, make no effort to preserve the language or culture, are mixed-blood Whites. If the complaint on the Freedmen is that they don’t “identify with us” (and I am sure that complaint is valid about at least some of them), then why is the same standard not applied to mixed-blood Whites? Perhaps the better standard for tribal citizenship is not blood, but cultural awareness and competency. Maybe applicants should face a panel of full-blood Elders to quiz them on tribal history, language, culture and tradition? Of course, the tribe benefits far too much from it’s size, a size possible only due to a lack of minimum blood quanta required, so it seems unlikely to ever change.
Local Crank , your suggestion ain’t a bad idea!
I read the statement that Chad Smith made in his supposelygreat speech, and I didn’t like the comments he made about ATM Cherokees. Well, he sure as heck didn’t mention those who are in a position of political authority, that are corrupt! It appears that he sidetracked those individuals all together!
What I don’t get is the fact that no one in a position of authority is owning up to the fact that the Dawes Rolls have been established manipulated to hinder those who are truly Native Americans! The deception is soooooooo evident! Evident in the fact that a person who is fortunate enough to have the knowledge to search the rolls and see where bloodlines have been recorded for their ancestors,some, on one roll, and left out on another! Some family members have bloodlines recorded of different blood degrees, and then their are others who are purposely left out! It’s a huge deception that took place over 100 years ago, and for some reason for people like Chad Smith and others in the same mind set to assume that many, if not all were Slaves, they must be crazy to assume such! In my opinion the word Freedmen, means born free, the wicked whitemen back in those times usually would put down anything and expect everyone to go along with their so-called evaluations of NativeAmericans, and African Slavesas if what they said or wrote was the truth! Not so! Thank God that there are heirs today who know the truth about where they come from because many wicked whites would rather that you remain ignorant, so that whatever deception is carried out today, you’ll never know the truth about who you are, where you originate from, or anything of importance to you and or your people, but rest assured the whiteman will, some…continue to lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, decive, and kill to maintain his level of comfort at the suffering of those who deserve to have whatever is rightfully theirs, and they should be able to spendthe money as they please! He does, especially the Native Americans moneyprovided him by those who as I stated earlier…have the same mindset, which comes in many colors! The true flavor of it all is TRUTH and those who seek to represent THE TRUTH, no matter how dark, and at the same time will continue to be the Warriors that their ancestors were back in those times of deception and pure hatred in many deceitful forms! It’s a shame that the Cherokee Nation isn’t made up of the true MINDSET of the Warriors of times gone by, but there are a few of us who will take a stand against such practices! Freedmen was a term used to seperate those whom the whiteman knew were the most deserving, and because of their skin color, even today it’s being made an issue, which is ignorance on anyone’s part who is in agreement with such garbage! Just pray for our enemies, and the Great Spirit will continue to fight our battles on this matter, and if you keep an eye on things you’ll see which way the Great Spirit’s Wind Blows, for he is about righteousness, not deceit like those who are creating all this discord and confusion within the Cherokee Nation and other tribes! ATM Cherokees have a right to complain, so what! They have much to complain about especially when people who are in office are corrupt!
Word, Sheryl Colorado!
Both Whites AND Blacks need to recognize that they are occupiers and foreigners. It shouldn’t be left to ANYBODY, except for Indians, to decide who is and who isn’t – that goes for all of those out there with white and black skin. Blacks are equally as aggressive/pushy as whites when it comes to elbowing their way into our business. They are also just as racist against [REAL] Indians (i.e. those who are half or more, who cannot pass as something else, who aren’t racialized as just white/just black). To non-Native America and all the thinblooded white/black pseudo “bands” out there: get over yourselves.
With the title being Whites Indians Kick Black Indians Out of Cherokee Tribe, the decision does not appear to come from all Indians-at least not fullbloods. The people being excluded are half Native Americans-just half black Native Americans as opposed to White,Asian,and Latino.But nobody singles out those other groups who probably have some misperceptions in regards to Native Americans as well. Just Black Indians. Go figure. But folks overlook this bias even as they rightfully call out blacks in regards to misperceptions/prejudice/bias they have. This can’t be glossed over and this ain’t about full bloods this is about Black Indians.
I just wanted to speak for a moment on behalf of other Cherokees who grew up disconnected from Cherokee culture, a.k.a. “wannabes.” I didn’t grow up knowing much about the culture because my grandmother had to move away from Oklahoma during the Great Depression in order to find work- in order to survive. Her mother had attended a boarding school where she became “civilized.” After that, most of our Cherokee culture was abandoned.
I am the only person in my family who is actively trying to learn more about the Cherokee culture by learning the language and reconnecting with extended family in Oklahoma. I am also the only female descendant of my great great grandmother who would be able to pass on our clan- that is, if I knew exactly what that means. I know our clan, because I was able to trace it back through genealogy, but the extent of my knowledge is what I’ve read off the Cherokee Nation website. Others may think I’m just being melodramatic, but to me this is a great tragedy.
Personally, I would love for part of the enrollment requirement to be an understanding of the language, religion, etc. Even if it meant that I had to live in Talequah for two years, I would do it. (Even longer, if I could convince my husband!) My ancestors sacrificed so much to give their descendants a better life. Now that our lives are not threatened as Cherokees, I feel like I would be doing such a disservice to my ancestors if I didn’t try to restore that connection to the culture. There are probably people rolling their eyes when they read this, but I genuinely feel this way.
Now I feel very apprehensive about going to Oklahoma to visit. I am very fortunate to have family still there who will welcome me with open arms, but I no longer have any reason to believe that I will be treated as anything but a “wannabe” by anyone else. And somehow, I’m led to believe that it’s my fault. It is somehow my fault for being “too white” and for not knowing enough about the culture. On top of that, I’m at fault for wanting to know more about the culture while being so white, which clearly makes me a “wannabe.” Nevermind the cultural genocide that my ancestors endured. Nevermind that none of us had any choice in the matter.
I usually walk away from Native American events, like Columbus Day protests, with mixed feelings. Inevitably there is an elder who yells out, “The whites have no culture! White culture is the KKK!” And inevitably, there is a small Native child in the audience who is hearing this. What message does this send to our allies? To our mixed-bloods? I can’t speak for the small child, but my instinct is to feel ashamed of the part of me that’s white. Is that what is expected of me?
I feel like I’ve let my ancestors down, and I don’t even know why I feel this way. I feel so alone.
Unbelievable!!! White people once again have pushed their Black family out into the cold because of greed and control over government scrapes that are being tossed their way. You thought you were struggling for your independent right before but your battle is just beginning!!! I’m not sure how any fullblood could have let this happen and I know that the voted out Black Cherokee will not sit by and take this laying down!!! If Black Cherokee members have to prove their lineage as Natives than so do the White mutts!!!
Why are the indians allowing the white man to once again claim indian land. Whites with very little indian blood and whites with no indian blood are quickly becoming members of the indian tribes. Maybe the white man has discovered “gold” in indian country again. Remember, the white man changes the rules whenever he wants to. If the white man keeps joining your tribe and if the white man keeps marrying into your tribe, there will one day be more white people in your tribe than indians. The white man may say that you have too much indian blood to be a member of the tribe. The white man may vote you out. Why are you against your blood brothers of darker skin. United you are strong. Divide your nation and you will fall. Know your enemy. Who took the indian lands from the indian years and years and years ago?
I think the treaty of 1866 needs to be honored. The US Constitution has stood up over decades of people trying to trample, rewrite or abolish it all together. The Cherokee agreed to the treaty back then and today’s their descendents need to honor and respect their ancestors wishes. After the American Civil War, slaves held by Cherokee were freed, and the Cherokee Freedmen were made citizens of the tribe in accordance with an act of the Cherokee National Council in 1863. A treaty made with the United States in 1866 further cemented the freedmen’s place as Cherokee citizens, giving them and their descendants federally protected rights to citizenship. If the Cherokee and other tribal nations will not honor their treaties and agreements that were placed for their survival as well, then all treaties should be abolished and all the Indian Nations need to take their place “within” American Society.
The Cherokee Nation of Mexico accepts enrollment from ALL Cherokee descendants regardless or color or religious preference.
The Cherokee Nation of Mexico is officially recognized by the Republic of Mexico, one of three countries – Canada, the United States and Mexico, which make up all of North America. The Cherokee Nation of Mexico and the Spanish Dominion was first recognized in the 1700s and was spiritually mandated in 1842 by one of the most influential of Native Americans, the great Cherokee intellect, educator and freedom activist – Sequoyah.
Osiyo, welcome to every person of a good heart.
It is with pleasure we welcome you and your families and friends to our tribe. We want to thank you for your interest in the Cherokee Nation of Sequoyah. We are a growing celebration of Cherokee heritage and look forward with great happiness to you becoming a member of our tribe and joining in the fun.
Over the past 10 years, we have been a source for those who feel the need of wanting to enjoy the Cherokee culture and to take pride in its history, and the many wonderful stories about the Cherokee ancestors have come from people and families just like yours.
All of every person’s stories are priceless among all Cherokees, as we respect all of those persons who came before us; their stories activate a commonality in the sense of belonging to a tribe and a bond of friendship through the experience of family historys. For this is the spirit which binds us all together.
Our membership procedure is strictly a process that allows us to document and organize the large numbers of interested applicants. The first step is this simple membership application. This will allow us to contact you and learn more about you and your family.
This easy to fill out application will allow us to create a Cherokee name based upon talking to you and reading your family stories, or if you already have a Cherokee name that you have outgrown, we can get to know you and, through the winds that carry all things good, we will work with you to rename you. Most people prefer our White Chief to name them, as that seems to be a correct name fit every time.
All new members will also be a part of one of the seven clans of the Cherokee Nation of Sequoyah so that when you come to our festivities and gatherings, you will have a chance to meet with other clan members, the same as it was done thousands of years ago.
Every year there will be gatherings and ceremonies performed by the tribe, and all family members of any age are welcome, for that is what the Cherokees are about, “togetherness of the people”. In ancient times, should the parents die, it was impossible to be an orphan, for the Cherokees had no word for orphan; all the adults are the mothers and fathers of the children– in fact, grandmothers and grandfathers were interchangeable as needed by the circumstances of life’s changes.
Got to http://CherokeeDiscovery.com and click on the “Registration” link
Please return this application via email or postal mail and the White Chief, Waterhawk Garrett himself, will read it and respond to your application, and be in communication with you, to lead you on the white path back to the tribe of your ancestors.
“Look forward to uplifting times.”
Regan Waterhawk Garrett
The White Chief of
Cherokee Nation of Sequoyah
copyright © 2012 Cherokee Nation of Sequoyah
First of all many Native Americans were displaced. The terms “white” “black or negro” and “Indian” replaced the use of nationalities like “Irish” or “Jicarilla Apache”. Therefore many descendents of the original Natives don’t know their culture. Should they be denied claim to this heritage because they have been displaced? It’s not blood-quantum or percentages anyway. It’s a family member. No law can deny ones DNA. If you know your heritage, great! But at the end of the day we are all 100% human. Why should a soverein nation being so hung up on what the U.S. government allows or disallows? Detach from that toxic nipple already. Native Americans conforming to racist white ideals = poop!