In my opinion, two of the best movies ever made are Ridley Scott’s Alien and the sequel to it, James Cameron’s Aliens.
I grew up watching Aliens all the time, but until last night I’d never gotten to see the original, Alien. A digitally remastered director’s cut of it, however, is currently on limited release in theatres so I jumped on the opportunity to see it on the big screen (even though I had to drive 60+ miles to Denver to do so). Suffice to say that I was floored and am half-way contemplating driving out to see it again next weekend.
So this is just a little post to say that if it’s showing in your town, or even if it isn’t, take some time out of your day to watch Alien. It is one of the best feminist movies I’ve seen (arguably; I think the sexual symbolism in the movie can be interpreted in multiple ways, but I think that the movie comes down firmly on the side of women as being smart, mature, compassionate, assertive, and worthy of respect), and is certaintly one of the best movies of any genre I’ve ever seen.
(On a related note: It’s not scary. Why the hell do people say it’s a horror movie? Because people die, it’s claustrophobic, and there’s a lot of tension? I could say that about a movie about the trenches of World War I, but few would call it a horror movie.).
I saw it in the theaters when it came out (79?), and it scared the hell out of me. But, i was only 9 at the time.
I saw it in the movie theater when it first came out and I actually had to leave the cinema for a couple of minutes. I truly think it is the only scary movie I’ve ever seen and that’s why I tend to think of it as a horror movie. Cameron’s movie is much more of a action/adventurer.
So what do you armchair critics make of the terrifying “birth” scene ? Is it iconoclastic because a man, not a woman, carries/unleashes the evil on our heroes ? Or is it just one more excuse for a male director to expound on the ickiness of reproduction and birth (like 90% of David Cronenberg’s films have done) ?
Just curious ?
James Cameron’s Aliens is definitely an action/adventure-type movie. It scared the crap out of me when I was a little kid (six or so, when I saw it on laserdisc), but it doesn’t bother me anymore.
Alien, on the other hand, was very tense and made me jump once, but wasn’t scary at all. No, I take that back. When [*spoiler*] Ash attacks Ripley, and just Ash’s character in general, scared the crap out of me. Gyah!
I think that the “birth” scene is one of those scenes that can be taken multiple ways. It’s either, like you said, iconoclastic or about the icky bits of birth or whatever. Of course, there’s also other things to take into account: the method of impregnation, the decidedly phallic appearance of the alien, the way that the creature grew and evolved, the final spooling out of the plot, etc.
I’m not sure I can explain my interpretation of the scene without taking more time than I have right now, but I felt that the scene was an extension of the rape-is-evil-and-disgusting-and-destructive theme that is forcefully present in the rest of the movie. I’m not sure how many other people hold that view of the movie’s theme, but I’d be happy to expand on how I reached that conclusion if you’d like.
Yeah, I went to see it friday, and it rocked hard core, of course. Sigourney Weaver is all bad ass and cool, but then there’s that other woman who spends the entire movie crying, which kind of got on my nerves. Still, a great movie though.
I’d read it, PDP. I’m very broad-minded. ;)
Alien is one of my favorite movies: I like the whole series, decreasingly as it continues.
Ripley is a wonderful, iconic character. Chavez is a strong character in Aliens. I do see a rape theme in Alien, both with the face scene and with the stomach one. Scott didn’t tell the actors so their shock is real.
IMO it’s also very scary.
Alien and Aliens are two of my favorite movies, but I hated Alien when it came out. I saw it at theatres, and it literally made me sick. I thought it was more science fiction than horror but it definitely has horror elements.
I think those of you commenting about the chest-bursting scene might be reading too much into it. I didn’t take it as a statement about reproduction and birth (at least not in the first movie; later movies, maybe, but I didn’t like the last two so I can’t remember much about them.). I didn’t think it was akin to rape, either. There were two ways the alien infected the crew: one, the way Kane was infected, and two, by injecting eggs into their backs with its tail (the way some wasps inject their eggs into spiders). The second way happened to Dallas, Parker, and Lambert. The movie had shown what was about to happen to Lambert when the alien’s tail went up between her legs, but until I read the book I wasn’t quite clear on what was going on. They weren’t killed. They were turned into incubators. The DVD has cut scenes including one where Ripley later finds Dallas, who asks her to kill him. “Aliens” explained it much better, too. I think the movie played on a basic human fear of having living creatures that don’t belong there in our bodies. It also plays on the fear of insects. Think of bot flies, bacteria, tapeworms, ticks, etc. High ick factor there.
I always thought Ripley and Vasquez (the female marine in “Aliens”) were great role models. I always got a kick out of one of the guys joking with Vasquez, asking her if she had ever been mistaken for a man. She replied, “No. How about you?” Then there were high fives all around.
The cast wasn’t sure exactly what was going to happen during that chest-bursting scene at first either. They were not given any details in the beginning. The scene was shot three times. Signourney Weaver said that the crew wore raincoats. She knew something bad was going to happen but she didn’t know exactly what. Going in, all except John Hurt, Scott, and the crew were clueless. So some of those reactions were real.
I dunno, Alien 3 isn’t as good as Alien or Aliens, but I still think it’s profoundly underrated. First of all, we get to see David Fincher’s ingenuity with a tight budget and poorly planned production. They didn’t have enough money to make the Alien look cool, so they de-emphasized it. And the chase scenes from the alien’s POV were the highlight of the film, and you didn’t have to look at the actual alien at all through them.
And it’s always nice to see a strong, feminine heroine, as opposed to the normal role for women in these movies, as wusses who run to the protection of their men. Think Sandra Bullock in the Speed movies.
Raznor — I’ve never been able to figure out which bothers me more: the weak women who just run to their men for protection (like Sandra Bullock in Speed), or the “strong” female lead characters who don’t act anything like women but act like men (like Angelina Jolie in Tomb Raider, or Uma Thurman in Kill Bill). One thing I always appreciated about Ripley was that she was distinctly female without being the weak-woman stereotype. I only ever watched the first half of Alien 3, but I felt that in that movie Ripley began to move away from being a strong female character and toward being a Tomb Raider or a Bride. I’ll have to watch it for the chase scene though; David Fincher is something of a genius and I’m sure that if anyone could pull off something like that, it’d be him.
. . .
Trish — I dunno, I always thought that part of the great fun of Alien lies in the way that it can be viewed as a great sci-fi movie, or as a movie laden with sexual imagery that begs to be interpreted. Incidentally, while the tail thing is never mentioned in the director’s cut of Alien, the scene with Dallas enclosed in the walls is included.
. . .
On second though, I wonder how much of my not being scared, or even grossed out, by Alien has to do with my having seen Aliens so many times. I knew that the chest-bursting scene was coming, that the face-hugger was dead, and that Ripley would be the only survivor. Even knowing those things, the movie was incredibly tense which I think speaks in favour of Scott’s skill in directing the picture (no comment on his later movies).
When I was a 10 year old boy hanging out with other 10 year old boys, we thought Vasquez was the coolest person ever. She completely stole the second movie. Ripley also rocks, and I thought I read somewhere that her character was originally planned as a man and then turned into a woman. I sometimes think writers should try that method of writing female characters (or the reverse, plan a female character then make it a man).
Alien – definitely a horror movie, but Aliens is a war movie and Alien 3 was a drama. Alien 4 was just a sick joke. The other great thing is the way the movie always has several levels – Different forms of Political or economic exploitation explored, Artificial lifeforms and what they are, sexual norms challenged, and of course Horrific Insect Creatures that infect us, grow in us, and then rip their ways through our chest.
Ian Holm, the person who played Ash the psychotic rapist android, is also the person who played Bilbo Baggins in *The Lord of the Rings.*
Ash. Bilbo Baggins. Ash, Bilbo. Ash, the guy who tried to kill Ripley by shoving a porno mag down her throat; and the elderly, kind hobbit weighted with guilt and doubt about his role in the mayhem of the world. Same person.
I’m having difficulty comprehending this. Somebody give that man an Oscar.
Well, Holm also played Jack the Ripper (From Hell) and a slimy ambulance-chasing lawyer with a tortured soul (The Sweet Hereafter, oy what a film) so dude’s got a range.
You know, I’ve often wondered how Alien Ressurection could manage to squander the talents not only of Jeunet, who I think is a spectacular director, but also of an incredible cast, with an end result that is just so bland and conventional. My guess, of course, is high-level meddling and embarrassingly stupid committee rewrites, but I’m not sure that could possibly account for everything…
And while I’m thinking about it, what’s the point of brining in a director like that and not allowing him to do any of the things that make his work special? Why, Hollywood, why?
PDP, agreed on everything except interpretation of Uma Thurman in Kill Bill. What I loved about her character in that movie is that she was a pure warrior, in the eastern/samurai term, which seems to transcend gender. The closest equivalent I can think of in any current movie is Forrest Whitaker in Ghost Dog, but that’s another matter.
And although I won’t make excuses for all of Scott’s post-Alien work (GI Jane? WTF?), he still deserves mad props for Blade Runner and Thelma and Louise. I mean, come on, credit where credit is due.
Raznor — I’ve never been able to figure out which bothers me more: the weak women who just run to their men for protection (like Sandra Bullock in Speed), or the “strong” female lead characters who don’t act anything like women but act like men (like Angelina Jolie in Tomb Raider, or Uma Thurman in Kill Bill). One thing I always appreciated about Ripley was that she was distinctly female without being the weak-woman stereotype. I only ever watched the first half of Alien 3, but I felt that in that movie Ripley began to move away from being a strong female character and toward being a Tomb Raider or a Bride. I’ll have to watch it for the chase scene though; David Fincher is something of a genius and I’m sure that if anyone could pull off something like that, it’d be him.
Well, this could be interesting. Not because I necessarily disagree with you, but because of some little-known facts about Ripley. As MDtoMN mentioned, Ripley was originally supposed to be a man. The original screenplay was written with Ripley as a man. When they decided to cast Sigourney Weaver, they were going to do a re-write. Weaver demanded that they not do so — in fact, she said she would only do the movie if they did not rewrite (and “feminize”) it (except in a few cases where it was absolutely necessary).
BTW, for those of you interested in this sort of thing, I’d highly recommend the book Tough Girls: Women Warriors and Wonder Women in Popular Culture by Sherrie A. Inness. Great book!
Thanks, Trish: Vasquez. I did my Ph.D. in England with the New Yorker’s Anthony Lane, and we both thought Vasquez and that exchange were really cool. We were in our 20s.
Eddie Murphy’s part in Beverly Hills Cop was written for Stallone.
PDP, when I saw Alien I had never before seen anything like it. I had no clue what the movie was about when my then-boyfriend took me to see it. My experience with horror and SF movies until then consisted of late Saturday nights watching Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee movies on Creature Feature. Not knocking Cushing and Lee (Cushing has always been one of my favorite actors), but I was completely unprepared for the claustrophobia and gore. I couldn’t watch another horror movie for eight years. Now, I’m hooked. :) Maybe it was the way I had initially reacted to it that caused me to not see the sexual imagery. I saw only parasitic bug imagery and face-crushing, and I was grossed out. I saw the sexual and motherhood imagery much more in the second movie. That’s one rare case where the sequel was almost better than the original. I agree that the original was predominately SF and the second was a war movie.
At the time everyone I knew who saw it had lots of questions. Like why were they up there going after that thing in the first place? It was supposed to be against the law to bring dangerous biological entities like that to earth. Apparently, Alan Dean Foster’s book answered the questions that the movie just hinted at. The injecting-eggs-via-tail was explained much better in the book and only hinted at in the movie. I’m not surprised Ridley Scott didn’t mention it.
Bean’s also right — I remember now that the part of Ripley was originally written for a man. Curious — what do all of you think of Sarah Conner in the Terminator movies? I’m surprised she hasn’t been mentioned yet. (Sorry to remind everyone of Ahnold, but the topic fits…)
John, I liked the marine’s comraderie very much. Vasquez was a blast. She stole every scene she was in. I worked in movie crews about ten years ago and everyone acted just like that. It was lots of fun.
I think those of you commenting about the chest-bursting scene might be reading too much into it.
I saw it (again) in the theater last night; did anyone else notice Ash’s comment, after the chest-bursting scene (or maybe a little later), when he refers to the alien as “Kane’s son” (or “Kane’s child?” I can’t remember) in loving awe?
And Morphienne, you’re completely right about Ash, “psychotic rapist.” Last night was also the first time I realized he’s trying to choke Ripley with a phallic porno magazine.
On a related note: It’s not scary.
My girlfriend saw it for the first time last night with me, and she nearly climbed over me when Dallas bites it in the air-shaft. It’s pretty scary for first-timers…
I thought that Ash’s comment was something along the lines of “Kane’s size” when they were discussing how big the alien was after it nabbed the first guy (whose name I cannot recall). Might have misheard, though.
…
Raznor – Perhaps I have so many other problems with Kill Bill that I’m unwilling to cut Tarantino any slack with his character development. (I mean, the whole ha-ha-ain’t-it-funny way the Bride being raped in her sleep was handled is simply unforgivable.) Personally, I’ve always found the stoic samurai thing to be a cheap device for lazy writers who don’t want to develop a character (point of contrast: Chow Yun Fat’s character in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon or perhaps Michelle Yoeh’s character from the same would be a better contrast for the Bride).
…
I think the women-who-act-like-men thing takes place as much on a performance and directing level as it does on a writing level. Perhaps a better way of describing the Tomb Raider phenomenon is not to say that the women act like men, but instead that the women act like many men’s idea of a “tough girl.” Hyper-sexualized but not likely to have sex because they’re frigid, cold and emotionless (or else horny tramps); violent; chief interests are guns, knives, cars, and bombs. Basically they’re like James Bond sans penis. Actually, come to think of it, the latest rash of “strong” Bond girls (think Jinx) area good example of the Tomb Raider phenomenon (as well as, of course, Tomb Raider herself).
I’m not sure if I’m explaining myself well, but I’m at work and so don’t have a whole lot of time. I’ll clarify later.
Yes, Vasquez kicked so much ass. She even dies in the most bad ass way imaginable. And don’t forget Newt, the 12-year-old ultimate survivor girl. It’s been a while since I’ve seen Aliens, I need to give it another go-around.
Trish, no problem with Terminator, even if it does star the Gropenfuhrer. It’s still an excellent movie. I don’t have any specific opinions on Linda Hamilton’s character, but I’ll say that Terminator and Aliens are probably Cameron’s best movies. Although Abyss deserves an honorable mention. And I’d probably like Titanic more if it weren’t so damn overrated.
PDP – You had a much different impression than me of the raping of the bride in Kill Bill. I didn’t think it was meant to be funny. Also, what interests me about the stoic, Samurai character is not so much the character itself but the underlying philosophy (once again, extremely well protrayed in Ghost Dog). Anyway, this is a much bigger debate. I could go into all the details on why I thought Kill Bill was great, but then this post would never end.
Arthegall – that scene when Dallas eats it gets me every time. It’s so well done.
I just wanted to disrupt the agreement fest to let you know that other opinions about the Alien series do exist.
I remember really wanting to see Alien. All those people (adults even!) talking about how disgusting & scary it was. Then I saw it. And I waited and waited and waited for something scary or disgusting to happen. In the end, I found it to be incredibly dull. On rewatching it years later, I liked it much better – but still not a great movie in my book.
Aliens – movie # 2. At the time I was really into action/SF/horror/gore films. Went to the premier at a Times Square Theater. I don’t remember the name – nearl 42nd though, so I know it wasn’t the RKO Warner. Anyway I was really looking forward to it. Damn, was I disappointed. A brainless special effects movie. And I wasn’t all that impressed with the special effects. Some of them looked so cheesy. Badly written dialogue, awfully slow for a fast paced thingy. Yurk.
AlienCubed (movie 3) – I avoided this one for years because I hadn’t particularly liked either of the first 2. Eventually I watched it with friends. And it rocked. Good dialogue, humor, well-developed characters, good pacing. I couldn’t believe it. After 13 or 14 yrs of disappointment the Alien series finally made something good.
Alien Resurrection (movie 4) – It had Jeunet for fuck’s sake. And this is what they made? Worse than 1 or 2 because they actually tried in those. This was just putting something w/ a polished look out there to capitalize on Franchise name. Blehhh.
I’ll never understand how people found movie 1 to be terrifying. Seeing it as an adult allowed me to enjoy the suspense and character aspects of it. I can even see the gross out factor, but scary? Nah.
And movie 2? No better than “Commando”. Even rewatching years later didn’t help it. I’d rather watch “The Adventures of Leonard: Part 6” than Aliens.
So, just disagreeing a bit w/ the seeming consensus on which of the series was best & why.
Enjoy.
In regards to Jake Squid’s comments, I was just thinking the other day about how strange it is that what people find “scary” varies so wildly, even among people of similar age and cultural background.
I mean, I have friends who are never scared: Amityville Horror, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, The Shining, Alien, The Ring… you name it, they sleep through it.
On the other hand, you have my girlfriend who screams like a girl (’cause she is a girl? yeah…) and claws at my arm from half-a-second of HR-Giger-foam-rubber-monstrosity.
Personally, I love horror movies… but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t watch some of them through my fingers.
I wonder what it is that ’causes people to be frightened? But my point is: even if *you* aren’t scared, you shouldn’t say that Alien and Aliens weren’t scary… they scared the hell out of a lot of people.
I thought Alien 3 was a good movie. I liked Charles Dance, for one. IIRC it got bad reviews?
Also Charles Dutton is always great. Even in Mimic, which sucked hard core.
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Alien “isn’t scary,” my foot. I saw it after somebody told me that, and I’ve never taken that person’s recommendation about anything else ever again. That goes for you too. Shame, shame. That’s dishonesty on an almost Bushian level.
I think the first Alien movie was fantastic, the third movie was pretty darn great (one of the best AIDS movies made), and the second movie was entertaining but forgettable.
I still find the motion detector scene in the first movie scary.
And I think Ian Holm is probably the best movie actor alive.
Alien 3 as a movie about AIDS… I’m interested in knowing what lead you to think that. It’s not an idea I’ve encountered before.
How much of Alien 3 did you see, PDP? Probably not enough. The AIDS metaphor makes sense to me, although it’s never occurred to me before.
See the whole thing, and we’ll discuss AIDS metaphors as well as film techniques. And yes, David Fincher is a genius. Watch Fight Club again to reassure you of that fact.
Aliens three was about a community which is put in pearl by a deadly, very infectous agent. And much of the moral dilemma of the movie is about the question: What does the community do in self-protection? And how should the carriers of the deadly agent be treated?
The other big plot of the movie is Ripley’s growing acceptance of her “alien-positive” status and her forthcoming death.
Admittedly, I was living in NYC when Aliens 3 came out, so maybe I just had the AIDS crisis on my mind – but I think the metaphor fits pretty well.
Regarding Terminator, I thought the first movie was wonderful from a feminist perspective; Linda Hamilton started out as one of those cringing “rescue me!” women, but the monster stalking her couldn’t be defeated until she stopped relying on a rescuer and instead fought the monster herself.
The second movie wasn’t as interesting, but I appreciated that her character was shown as being strong and kicking ass. But in the end, she had to take a back seat to Arnold, which made the second movie a bit less thrilling from a feminist perspective than the first movie was. (OTOH, the morphing special effects were amazing).
I haven’t seen the third movie yet.
I only saw the first part of Alien 3, but was kinda bored by it. I’ll give it another chance.
Fight Club is one of my favourite movies. I also like other Fincher flicks like Panic Room and Seven. So, yes, he’s a genius. One of my favourite filmmakers.
I liked both Terminator movies. Perhaps the second more than the first because I never saw the first until about a year ago (but was obsessed with the second when it came out). I won’t be seeing the third. It looks lame.
Hi, just surfing the net and came over this thread. Firstly I’d like to clear up the “Kane’s Son” line in Alien.
For a long time people thought it was “Gained Some” I always thought it was this as well, but then a while ago i saw on the net that some people believed that it was Kane’s Son, this blew my mind as I thought of the Alien suddenly in a different way. Now in the old version of alien (english version) sytick the subtitles on and its says “Gained Some” however in the Spanish (or was it Freanch) version the subtitles say Kane’s Son. I recently purchased the Alien Quadrillogy and to my delight I found the actual chapter on the DVD has been renamed to “Kane’s Son” So scott must have correccted this in his directors cut.
As to Alien being very sexual and about rape, I think the thing with alien you have to remember is that it is Alien, H.R. Gigers world, a place that we can’t understand, when I first saw this film it scared the hell out of be and I believe it is because however hard you try you can never make sense of the alien. (my opinion anyway) I think the other films try to explain the way the alien acts a bit too much for my liking.
I think alien as a film is so good because you can have your own interpretation of it, whereas Aliens is very much more straight forward and the presence of a Queen allows us to relate the Alien to things in our world I.e. Ants.
Ok I’ve rambled enough, just saw the dates on the post so I dont expect a reply, but what do you guys think of the pilot race – this was always a big question for me, did the pilot race create the aliens?