Or an Indian, Chinese, Native America, Mexican …
There’s another post on my fl list that says it eloquently but its locked. However, I found another blog that breaks down the sentiments quite nicely. My identity is NOT a costume for you to wear! (The Native American via Ancient Eygpt costume is in a class by itself. Jesus!) Halloween is for fantastical fanciful monsters creatures of myth and lore and legend. Insulting caricatures of minorities do NOT fall under that description. And YES, it’s insulting, NO its not fucking respectful, or fun!
And now a word from our sponsor...
| Your ad could be here, right now. |
Dont dress up like what you think is a Jamaican this Halloween
Wow, that’s the longest list yet of anti-racist-get-up Halloween posts! And a great way to archive them.
Yes, it’s sad how a scary-ghost-and-monster season has turned for so many into a sexism and/or racist caricature season.
I’m gonna be a Prinny!
I read the second post, but the comments just depressed me.
Pingback: Can We At Least Agree That It’s Racist To Dress Your Dog Up Like a Racial Caricature? » Sociological Images
Ok, next Halloween, I’m gonna be a middle-class white man with two kids and a dog.
Or maybe not.
I saw one person dressed as a geisha, but it was just the dress no yellowface or anything, but it was awkward.
When I was in high school, a friend of mine went as a lawyer for Halloween.
A little late now but the answer to the article above is BS!!!!
Costuming is always about caricature of something–witch-demon-dead.
Once I went as an indian and it was not to make fun of them. Anyone who would have objected would probably not know what he was talking about since I’ve studied more indian culture then most indians.
Besides the whole idea of holloween costumes is about hiding identity, I know most no longer knows or does it for that reason. So if the (place other culture name) don’t like it then why don’t they dress up like a bigoted white guy- a preacher would be easy to parody.
I have some Indians who might like to talk to you about that belief.
My 3 year old son decided that his costume would be “a girl.” So he went in a Cinderella dress.
Fortunately we’re in a liberal area; he got some raised eyebrows but that’s about it. And he looked damn cute, I should add.
@ Sailorman Aaw!
My little brother wore a dress on halloween once, but he didn’t dare let anyone but family see him in it.
So sad that kids become scared to be themselves so young (he was 5 then.)
@CybrgynX
But minorities are REAL, living people. They are not fictional characters or corpses.
And yes, some people dress up as living celebrities at Halloween, but that’s different. Caricaturing an individual is not the same as caricaturing a huge group and making out like they’re a monolith of weird.
CybrgnX,
I find your above post BS!! I’m doubting you even bothered to understand the article, or even read any of the links. It wasn’t even asking a question, it was saying “just stop hurting me.”
“So if the (place other culture name) don’t like it then why don’t they dress up like a bigoted white guy- a preacher would be easy to parody.”
Racist caricature is still racist caricature, making it racist, wrong, insulting and hurtful. Parodying the racist behavior of white folk is not the same.
Dear CybrgynX.
Question 1: How the hell does one go as an Indian?
There are what? 500 tribes of Indians in North America? all with their different traditions of clothing styles. So whom, exactly are you referring to when you say an Indian? The Bullshit racist caricatures that Hollywood has fed us via sphagetti westerns? You FAIL.
Which makes this POS even more laughable:
Anyone who would have objected would probably not know what he was talking about since I’ve studied more Indian culture then most Indians.
You do realize that your previous sentence has completely disproved the above collection of words, have you? And the rudeness and privilege that you, a non-Indian, display in this sentence, you will decide what is racist or not because you have studied more about Indians than Indians themselves? REALLY?
The very fact that he tosses around the word “Indian” makes me think his post is an elaborate joke that only he is in on.
As much as I miss the days when going as a historical version of some other nationality was cool, the fact is that there’s no way to do it right. I mean, even though nobody means any harm, even if the costume is unrelated to the modern versions of the culture they’re referring too (I don’t think any of these “other ethnicity” costumes have anything to do with the 20th century) the fact is that even the best-designed costume can cause offense, and since it’s there culture and not yours, it’s best to just abandon the idea.
Oh, and my wife loves this show – this bit gave me an epic facepalm:
http://www.schemamag.ca/archive2/2009/10/its_haloween_ethnic-racial_sty.php
America’s Next Top Model does the “dress up in our idea of what X looks like” pretty often, but at least they usually avoid the blackface and focus on fashionable-to-imitate cultures like China or Japan.
great godamighty! you white folks are sure funny. you got way too much pc ruining your auras, and i dare say, your lives.
i’m half basque, 1/4 raramuri (mexican original nation, northern chihuahua state) and 1/4 tepehuuan (mexican original nation, southern chihuahua state). only thing, i don’t have the indian approval stamped on my ass, courtesy of the pcless government.
not being recognized is a good thing, except that all of my family has had to pay for our college educations. we don’t get no indian goodies because we ain’t tribalized, with varying blood quotients, set by the white man. now, that’s racist.
last night i saw a young black man at a local night club dressed in a serape and a big sombrero. i complimented him on his good taste. i saw a young lady dressed as a modern indian maiden in a beaded miniskirt and mocassins, with a feather in her head. i would have made eyes at her, but i was in mixed company, including a couple of my daughters, and they would have frowned. she was gorgeous and most indians i know would not have been offended. we’re not too pc. life’s too short, and there are real and more important things to do.
hey, they’re costumes, and to a greater or lesser extent, we live all our lives dressed in costumes. for work, for play, for sports. so what?
I went as a Tea Party protester this year.
And, oh god, I watched that ANTM episode. The fail was just too much to handle.
Hm. My brother-in-law showed up at the annual Halloween party with a hat in the Jamacian flag colors and fake Rastafarian dreadlocks out from underneath it. What a coincidence!
Me, I was dressed as a Bishop. My wife found the costume at a garage sale. Pretty much everyone there was Catholic (except me!) and nobody complained, especially the couple dressed up as a priest and a nun. I guess it’s still safe to make fun of Catholics.
So what did you all dress up as when you were kids before you knew better?
When I was 7 and my brothers were 9 and 11, Mom and Dad did us all up in blackface, with burnt cork on our faces, raggedy clothes and the whole bit. They got costumed up the same way and then we drove around town and hit the neighbors and friends. We got candy, Mom probably got a mixed drink and Dad and the paterfamilias had a mixed drink or a shot. Much joking around and then we were off to the next stop. Understand that this would have been somewhere around 1959 in a southwest suburb of Boston. There were about 8000 people living in the town, and IIRC there was exactly one black family with kids in the school system.
I wouldn’t do that now for a whole boatload of reasons, but it’s interesting to reflect how much things can change in one’s lifetime.
Speaking about changes and about Native American costumes; the BSA has an organization called the Order of the Arrow. It’s an honor camping society that your fellow Scouts elect you to if they think that you exemplify the Scout Law and Oath. Lots of Native American imagery, outfits, etc. When I was a kid people pretty much made up any costumes they wanted to, wore face paint in whatever configuration they wanted, etc., etc. It looked and sounded like a Western B-movie from the 30’s.
There were complaints. Some from Native Americans who were members of the OA (I spoke to one). National Council responded, consulting with numerous Native American bands and organizations. Nowadays OA lodges are required to consult with and adopt the dress of the Native American band native to their area and to make it as absolutely authentic as possible. Lots of work goes into this, with research into materials and construction methods and details. It’s usual now that outfits – we don’t call them costumes anymore – are made of authentic skins tanned in traditional methods and that were assembled using bone or quill needles and sinew for thread. Beadwork is handmade (if the local band did beadwork) and uses historic patterns. Real eagle feathers are forbidden (they’d be against the law, anyway). Face paint can only be used if the local Native American band approves specific paint schemes in writing. If there’s a drum, specific songs appropriate to the moment are used. The huge headdresses with tons of feathers and such from old Westerns are no longer acceptable, nor do you see bogus dances – in fact, there are no dances at all.
The attitude of the Native American bands is quite approving as long as the Scouts are willing to put the effort into authenticity and respect. It may not be PC but they seem to be satisfied.
“great godamighty! you white folks are sure funny. you got way too much pc ruining your auras, and i dare say, your lives.”
Yes, my life is absolutely ruined because I was told I should not go as Chris Rock for Halloween this year. I think I hear the sound of a tiny violin, somewhere in the distance…
Jesus has a point – but perhaps in a different way. The majority culture (whites, men, whatever) does NOT have a say in what is racist/sexist/whatever. Jesus, if you’re cool with it and you don’t see a problem, then that’s a valid opinion. However, because I don’t belong to your culture, I would not assume it would be okay for me to dress up in what I thought was Native American clothing. Now if you and I were buds, and I was hanging out at your house and you dressed me up, I probably wouldn’t care. It has some validity that way, although I would still be a little cautious in public. It’s a respect thing, not a PC thing, for me. It would be great if nothing offended anyone (because then no one would be marginalized,) but if a majority of people say something is offensive, it is not my place to judge it differently – especially if it is not my background.
And following on from #22, it isn’t for one minority person to tell another what they shouldn’t be offended by. I know a number of Native American/American Indian/First Nations folks who are *deeply* aggravated by “Indian” costumes for sale in plastic bags, people going to parties in redface, paying $9000 to go to plastic shaman sweat lodges (even the ones where people don’t end up dead), and so forth. There doesn’t have to be a homogeneity of opinion.
I wouldn’t do that now for a whole boatload of reasons,
One of which, I hope, is that you could have been killed by the idiot drunk driving and you won’t expose your children to such behavior.
You just made my day!
Ok, next Halloween, I’m gonna be a middle-class white man with two kids and a dog.
Scary. Seriously.
paying $9000 to go to plastic shaman sweat lodges (even the ones where people don’t end up dead),
Re the sweat lodge thing…It seems to me that a bunch of (probably mostly white) people getting together in a sweat lodge without having the slightest clue about the cultural and religious context of the whole thing must be a bit like having a bunch of non-Catholics going to a ceremony where someone dressed in red robes and a funny hat serves them crackers and wine and then they go away talking about their wonderful mystic experience…not just offensive but completely missing the point.
@queercripfemme:
Aw, thanks! I’m relatively new to commenting on blogs such as these, so I’m always pleasantly surprised when something I said is considered remotely witty to anyone other than myself. :)
@Dianne:
Wow, that would be a great metaphor to use if anyone ever needs to talk their non-Native friends out of doing something so ridiculous. I don’t think most white folks would take kindly to their culture being appropriated, so this would be a great way to explain to them what’s wrong with that situation.
Speaking of this subject, anybody seen the trailers for Prince of Persia: Sands of Time? I know it’s based on a videogame, and that videogame in turn was an homage to a game made in 1990 (a damned good one at that)… but yeah, Persians are now white dudes with fake tans and british accents.
Using two random examples:
I don’t particularly care if someone is trying to create their own ritual and ends up using some (or all) of the trappings of judaism. If they want to wear a tallis while they shake a pine branch over their cheeseburger-shrimp plate I don’t really care.
I might care if they tried to market their own ritual AS Judaism, which seems to me to be an entirely different thing. One of them really has nothing to do with me; the other affects me insofar as it provides a competing “brand” which dilutes reality.
Similarly, applying my own worldview to someone else, bringing people to a plastic tarp building to sweat and beat themselves with branches while listening to Enya doesn’t seem innately offensive. NAs don’t “own” sweating any more than Finns do–and let me tell you, I’ve spent a lot of time surrounded by pasty naked sweating Finns.
OTOH, marketing the event as “NA Traditional Sweat Lodges, Inc.” seems innately offensive, because that is providing a worldview of what NAs “do” which is in direct competition to the reality of NAs.
Well, technically, Persians are white, though I don’t think they’re all dudes.
But tell me, are the random extras, the antagonist, or the goofy comic relief sidekick, more “ethnic-looking” than the titular Prince?
I’m trying to figure out what the racist line is here, and it’s not clear to me.
“Native American” is apparently unacceptable. What if my daughter wants to be “Pocahontas” from the Disney movie (or Mulan or Jasmine). Are we limited, if we are white, to the white Disney Princesses? That doesn’t seem right. But there’s also not a lot of difference between “Pocahontas” and “Indian.”
Which are the following costumes are insulting caricatures of minorities if the costume wearer is a different race? Here are some that I’m not seeing a clear answer to . . . A. (White) Cowboy; B. Viking; C. Ninja; D. Al Sharpton; E. Michael Jackson; F. Pocahontas; G. Genie; H. Witch Doctor.
But tell me, are the random extras, the antagonist, or the goofy comic relief sidekick, more “ethnic-looking” than the titular Prince?
Well this game is odd by the fact that there are really one three characters. The Prince (which I think is a tradition since I don’t think he has ever gone by any other name), Farrah the princess from a neighbooring land, and the Vizier (sp?) the main enemy.
Farrah does “look ethnic” yet she kinda doesn’t sound it while the Vizier sounds it but doesn’t look it (he looks like an average old white guy to me).
Someone mentioned religion and it got me thinking. I was at a party last Saturday and saw a woman dressed in what appeared to be Day of the Dead attire and mask and I say appear because I was not about to walk all up in her culture and question it like that. I have the approach that Sailorman seems to describe where using for ones’s self is one thing but trying to profit from or claim that it is the real thing is wrong. But at the same time I’m not a part of Latin American culture.
My question is, as a person who does not practice that culture, would it be offensive for me to dress Day of the Dead attire even though I’m not trying to pass it off as the real thing or profit from it? It may seem harmless but to echo the title of this post is it wrong for me to “dress up like what I think is Day of Dead attire for Halloween?”
Like Rich above asks where is the line?
Becoming culturally sensitive doesn’t work that way, Rich and Danny. There is no form you can fill out to get your costume, theme party, etc. signed off on by the Intergalactic Coalition of Marginalized People and declared either “definitely racist” or “definitely not racist.” Judging for yourself whether your idea for a costume others people, stereotypes them, portrays them in an offensive light, treats them as a monolith, etc. AND whether said people are a marginalized or oppressed group requires that you develop your critical thinking and listening skills, pay attention to what minority and marginalized people have to say about their experiences of representation by “the other,” take apart the rationale for why your costume is interesting/funny/etc. and be honest about its implications, and then decide whether you’re comfortable with how it all looks in the harsh light of day. In the end, it requires you to think about what your values are for how to treat people, and whether your costume is in line with your values.
I was expecting an answer like that Elusis. I suppose that even after applying what you say I didn’t want to just think I could answer the question all by myself. But this:
…pay attention to what minority and marginalized people have to say about their experiences of representation by “the other,”…
could be the answer to that. As far as I know I’ve never known of Latin Americans taking offense to outsiders dressing in such a manner but I didn’t want to presume that since I don’t know about it must not exist.
And this:
In the end, it requires you to think about what your values are for how to treat people, and whether your costume is in line with your values.
is good stuff to think about.
I myself am not a spiritual person (agnostic) so when I say I find the attire and mask interesting I mean it purely on a aesthetic level and that would be why I would dress in such a manner. I need to find out if such motivations from an outsider would be offensive (and as I say so far I’ve found no indication that it would) and if so the idea must go.
That’s the point. When my daughter is trying to decide between the Snow White and the Pocahontas costume, I’m standing in the store completely indifferent, assuming one Disney Princess is the same as any other.
And then I see a link to this post where a “real Navajo” threatens to “go PETA on your ass with a bucket of paint” the next time she sees someone in “some stupid Indian costume” with samples suspiciously like the Disney Pocahontas costume.
So now I am left with the options of sounding like a racist (“Pick any Caucasian princess you’d like, honey . . .”) or having my daughter look like one. Neither seem like pleasant options.
@Rich B? Did you fully readthat post at all? Cause she clearly states that one of her issues is that:
Pocahontas, unlike Snow White and Cinderella, was a real person. Not only was her story pretty horribly distorted by Disney, but you are lumping her in with myths and legends for Halloween.
@Danny. You want to wear a Day of the Dead mask because of its aesthetic properties on halloween? Um. Not one of the best ideas that I have ever heard.
@Danny. You want to wear a Day of the Dead mask because of its aesthetic properties on halloween? Um. Not one of the best ideas that I have ever heard.
See to me it would seem that since I’m not trying to own or profit from that culture nor am I trying to make fun of that culture it would be okay to just wear something I would normally not wear however since Day of Dead practitioners are actual people and not fictional then perhaps such a thing would not be okay.
Dianne, your post #27 is quite good. Mind if I borrow that?
So if you wish to dress up like mythical creature (Goblin, Spiderman, Unicorn (Heeyyy!), or larger than life celebrity or public figure (Glenn Beck, Paris Hilton, George Bush), than Halloween is your day to do so!
So if a white person decides to get dressed up like I and my family did all those years ago it would be considered racist. Which makes sense to me. OTOH, should said white person put himself up in blackface, fake big ears and a suit and tie and represents himself as President Obama it would NOT be racist, as he is portraying himself as a given famous person.
@Rich B? Did you fully readthat post at all?
Yes. She says that dressing up as a “larger than life” figures (like Pocahontas) is okay, but that dressing up as a Native American (like Pocahontas) is not okay.
Her description of acceptable categories also seems to exclude “types of non-mythic real people” that lots of people dress up like for Halloween without offending anyone (cowboys, ninjas, pirates, and vikings, for example).
I’m not asking for a perfect costume-algorithm, just an explanation as to why my internal offense-o-meter is so out of whack. I never understood why people let their kids dress up like Pirates (infamous killers and rapists), but I see nothing wrong with selecting the heroine of a Disney movie.
The majority culture (whites, men, whatever) does NOT have a say in what is racist/sexist/whatever.
Oh, I can’t agree with that. Everyone has a say in what’s racist. For one thing, what if the racism is being directed towards a member of the majority culture? Racism isn’t whatever a member of a particular culture says it is.
Oh, I can’t agree with that. Everyone has a say in what’s racist. For one thing, what if the racism is being directed towards a member of the majority culture? Racism isn’t whatever a member of a particular culture says it is.
Some would say that such a situation is not an -ism but that’s another post. Hopefully they were trying to say that poeple should not be trying to say what is -ist to groups that they are not a part of. Just as I as a man have no business trying to say what is sexist to women a women has no business trying to say what is sexist to men and at the same time a white person has no business telling me what is racist towards black people I have no business trying to tell a white person what is racist towards whites and so on through the various -isms.
Ron @40: Fine with me. Glad you liked it.
@Ron F? Blackface, Ron? Really now? And there’s actually a damned link up there specifically telling you’all how to dress like Obama without being a damn racist. Seriously. Please go read it.
@Rich B: No she didn’t. This link in my comment at 13 did. And your Disney Princess would still be out. Because Disney completely fucked up her story, and I’m not sure that costume that she is wearing is accurate. Make your daughter accurately dress up like Pocahontas, if she really must, see the earliest wood carving on the Wikipedia link, or do some research on what her tribe actually dressed like at the time she lived. Disney’s portrayal of the Indians is stereotypical and inaccurate, in short. Make your daughter learn about Pocohontas the actual living breathing woman, not the corporatized caricature that is Disney’s version.
RonF,
This might be one of those things where the cultural wounds have to heal before a white person can wear black face and not invoke horrible histories. I think that at some point in the future it should be feasible for people to use makeup to lighten or darken their skin for neutral costuming purposes — as long as they make themselves up to look like human beings, and not do things like just darken their faces and leave stereotypically huge white lips and… UGH. But first, we have to be further away from racism than we are (and if we’re still in living memory of people doing the racist caricature blackface for kicks — and oh boy, are we — then we are not further away). And secondly, we’d have to be in a time and place where colorism is gone, and it’s not. As long as there are still political and social implications to whether one’s skin is dark or light, and judgments about whether dark or light skin makes one better or worse, prettier or uglier, worthier or less worthy — no. That’s not a good subject for a Halloween costume.
At least not unless you are a race activist who’s on race level 201, minimum. I have seen non-white people play with color in costumes in interesting ways. Of course they knew what they were doing, and were also the people who’ve traditionally been wounded by those costumes, not the people who have done the wounding.