This is out of the Rachel’s Tavern archive. It is one of the Snippets from my Dissertation. Keep in mind all of these posts are snippets of a much larger piece of work, so feel free to add to things, ask questions or give critiques. I’d love to hear feedback from people. In my dissertation, I focused on family approval of Black/White interracial relationships. The data is based on 39 interviews with people in interracial relationships (conducted individually) and 5 interviews with the relatives of some of these couples, so this is where most of the focus will be.
My research is most concerned with how contemporary racism…also called colorblind racism or laissez faire racism…affects family approval of interracial relationships. However, we cannot understand how contemporary racism works without acknowledging the extent to which racism is interconnected with other forms of oppression. Multiracial feminist theorist Patricia Hill Collins refers to these complex connections as the matrix of domination. After interviewing couples it is evident that opposition to interracial marriage is not just about racism. The issues of gender and controlling Black women’s, White women’s, and Black men’s sexuality is ever present in the discourses that families use to oppose interracial relationships. One of the most obvious ways gender and race work together to affect interracial relationships is in the likelihood of intermarrying. Currently about 70% of Black/White marriages are between Black men and White women, which contrasts with the early half of the 1900s when most Black White marriages were between Black women and White men. Below I have highlighted a few of the primary issues facing Black women and White women in interracial relationships.
5 Dilemmas Facing Black Women in IRs
1) Of particular relevance in my interviews are controlling images of Black women’s beauty and sexuality. Many Black women married to White men worried that the stereotypes of Black women as sexually promiscuous would affect how their White partners’ families viewed them, and in some cases it very clearly had a negative impact on a White family’s willingness to accept interracial relationships. Black women also worried that the greater value attached to White women’s fair skin and straight hair put them at a disadvantage in the marriage market with both Black men and White men. There was often an underlying worry that even though they were partnered their choices to date or marry Black men and White men were much more limited.
2&3) The other two controlling images that shaped the experiences of the Black women I interviewed were the belief that Black women are domineering “bitches” and “gold diggers.” Many Black women in interracial relationships felt pressure to carefully monitor their behavior, so they didn’t come off as “the typical Black bitch who doesn’t know her place.” The idea that Black women who marry White men do it for money was also mentioned as a common concern. This affected both how they dealt with their family members and those of their spouses.
4) Family approval of interracial relationships is most likely lower for Black women than it is for Black men. Black women’s families had more objections to interracial relationships than their Black male counterparts. Many relatives of Black women (especially male relatives) tried to “protect their daughters/sisters/cousins from White men” who they felt would sexually exploit Black women. Given the history of White male sexual violence against Black women this is not surprising. However, family opposition also has the affect of denying Black women’s agency because their judgment is held up to much more scrutiny than Black men in interracial relationships.
5) Black women who entered interracial relationships also worried about being alone, a phenomnon facing many Black women today. Since the gender ratio of African Americans is imabalanced, many Black women saw White men as a “whole new world of men” who they could date and marry. Considering White men was a way for some Black women to keep from being alone.
5 Dilemmas Facing White Women in IRs
1)When it comes to Black/White interracial relationships my research indicates, that White women face the most family opposition of all of the race/gender groups. The tactics used to show opposition in White women’s families are often more extreme. They appear to be the group most likely to be disowned or disinvited when they enter interracial relationships.
2) Many White women indicate that their relatives feel Black men were sexually aggressive, threatening, and irresponsible. When White families opposed White women’s interracial relationships, they often felt that they were protecting White women from Black men and from White women’s own naivety or passivity.
3) Unlike Black women who are stereotyped as “bitchy” and “aggressive,” White women are stereotyped as naïve, passive, and weak. This controlling image of White women affects how White women’s relatives and their Black male partners’ relatives view their relationships. Many White women’s relatives felt the need to intervene because they think White women are too naïve to know what they are getting themselves into and too weak to defend themselves. Their Black partners’ relatives worry that White women will be too weak to defend their partners or their biracial children against racism, and they worry that Black men have chosen these White women because they are looking for a women who will tolerate a subservient position, something many Black families think Black women will not do.
4) White women’s families not only question Black men’s sexuality, but they also question the sexuality of White women who enter interracial relationships. Even though White women overall may be held up as the epitome of beauty and sexual attractiveness, White women who had relationships with Black men were not viewed in this way. The most common notion is that White women who have relationships with Black men are sexually loose or tainted.
5) Some White women’s families worry that an interracial relationship would make them less attractive to White men after they were “left all alone” by Black men. Implicit in this belief is that White women’s interracial relationships won’t last, and when they do end, White women won’t be able to find anyone to date or marry.
I have much more I can add. I guess it will be out in a book someday, but I think this can be a jumping off point…. What do you think are some of the dilemmas women in interracial relationships face?
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One problem white women occasionally face in interracial relationships is that they often feel closer to black culture and people through their relationships, but that closeness is not always reciprocated. That can be a painful surprise for a woman who thinks herself to be special (because she is “progressive” enough to date across color lines) and she might expect others to also see her as special.
A problem black women sometimes face is the assumption that they aren’t loved by their white partners, but instead are merely fetishized. Hearing this kind of thing can sometimes lead to insecurity and distrust in the relationship, thus inadvertently creating an atmosphere that could sabotage it.
Interesting post.
“Since the gender ratio of African Americans is imabalanced…”
This seems a bit like the “disproportionately White” comment of a different thread.
Is there some holy stelae somewhere on which the proper proportions of whiteness and the correct balance of the sexes is inscribed?
4) White women’s families not only question Black men’s sexuality, but they also question the sexuality of White women who enter interracial relationships. Even though White women overall may be held up as the epitome of beauty and sexual attractiveness, White women who had relationships with Black men were not viewed in this way. The most common notion is that White women who have relationships with Black men are sexually loose or tainted.
Isn’t there also a stereotype that white women who date black men are less attractive than other white women?
I’m a child of an interracial marriage , so my perspective is skewed accordingly. No matter who I choose to date or befriend, someone sees my relationships (and those of my sibs) as being interracial. My colouring and features contradict each other, and people tend to assume my background by classifying me as “us” or “them.”
Those who are multiracial occupy a strange space, I think. I’m not sure how relevant this is in the scope of your study – you seem focused on relationships between Black and White in the US. I thought I’d throw in a few Canadian pennies.
I don’t have a lot to add in the way of additional perspectives; but I would love to read the whole thing when it’s done.
Robert brought up a point, though: I’d like to see just a few numbers on the gender ratios of Blacks and Whites [keeping in mind that you might have included tons of them in another area of the dissertation that’s not reproduced here]. I do know from studying the criminal justice system that there’s a disproportionate number of young Black men in jail and prison, which I imagine would account for a lot of the disparity in the gender ratio.
Rachel – great points. I would have to say that based on my family’s experience, your points are largely valid.
Nina – exactly.
When my White cousin married a Black woman (back in the 1950s), I am told that it caused quite a stir, but they moved to Egypt shortly after the wedding and didn’t return until the 1980s. Their son (who is roughly my age) married a Korean woman about 10 years ago. He told me later that he caught so much flak from friends and family from dating either White women or Black women that he decided fairly early on that he would only marry someone who was not Black or White.
When my White sister and my Black brother-in-law announced their plans to marry, my parents held out a lot longer than his parents did. My parents’ stated reason for their opposition was that they were afraid the marriage would adversely impact my sister’s career (she was tenure-track at a large university at the time). I don’t know what their real reason was, but it was the one they felt comfortable saying out loud. We also noticed a distinct generational split in responses to the marriage – for the most part, my grandparents were extremely opposed, my aunts and uncles were split 50-50, and my sibs and cousins were all for it. So maybe those of us who were born in the 1960s forward are more accepting of interracial marriages?
I’m a white woman who has been in long term relationships with black men. My daughter is biracial and I can tell you that I got a lot more flack from my family than her father’s family. Every member of my own father’s side of the family completely disowned me. None of them have ever met my daughter.
Yet her father’s family don’t treat her any differently because of my race.
I do know that her aunts don’t like black men dating white women “because there aren’t enough good black men and the good ones always want the trophy white girl”. They stigmatize any black women they know that have dated white men (I’m referring to one specific family, by the way) because they think they’re betraying their people. They don’t, though, treat the children any differently. And that’s to be admired.
The funniest part of that is the white people I know who are against interracial relationships use the same kinds of arguments. My husband is white and when we first got together he told me he thought that all the good white girls were dating black guys. He also thought I would leave him for a black guy (because of that “once you go black….” thing). Yet here we are happily married. He accepted me and my daughter and so has his family.
Another thing I’d like to mention (as this comment gets out of control), my daughter is 15 and because of the treatment she’s received from my family she completely disregards her white heritage. Meaning that she doesn’t consider herself biracial- “just black” she says.
Robert, the “correct” gender balance within any race is assumed to be 50-50, for obvious reasons. As Frida noted, the disproportionate number of black men in prison skews the balance away from this. I’ve seen the numbers; I forget what they are, but the shortage of men is significant.
Regarding stereotypes: I’m not aware of one which says black women are any more promiscuous than whites. The black sexual stereotype I am aware of is that black men are better lovers than white men. What would follow from this, I would think, is that a black woman with a white man might be seen as a loser, “not good enough to get a black man”. Does this ever happen?
Regarding the “gold digger” perception: I think that comes into play whenever a woman marries a man significantly wealthier than she is, regardless of race. It’s just that due to the economic status of the races, this is more likely to be the case if she’s black and he’s white.
Robert, the “correct” gender balance within any race is assumed to be 50-50, for obvious reasons.
Perhaps you could share those reasons with me. I don’t find them obvious.
Hey, Rachel, I am without time to participate in this thread really but wanted to say I found your post interesting and accurate. I guest edited (with the collective) the upcoming issue of Off Our Backs on “Feminism and Motherhood” –it will soon be on newsstands. In that issue is an article I wrote about being interracially married and raising biracial (black/white) children (I have nine, the oldest is 34, the youngest is 15, all are my biological children). You might be interested in checking out that article.
As to this:
That can be a painful surprise for a woman who thinks herself to be special (because she is “progressive” enough to date across color lines) and she might expect others to also see her as special.
I think that rejection, or perceived rejection, by people of color hurts those of us who are white and biracially married not because we think we think we are “progressive enough to date across color lines” or because we “expect to be seen as special,” but because (1) rejection is always painful, regardless, no matter who we are as human being and even when we understand the reasons for its; (2) if we have children, it’s important that the communities and extended, intentional families we create for ourselves include people of color. If we can’t connect with people of color, if we are rejected, it’s not only a loss for us, it is a loss for our children. Having said that, my in-laws have always been the greatest, warm, accepting, there was never any doubt that I and the children were and are family to them. Matter of fact, my woman in-laws took my side when I divorced their brother (after 19 years of marriage) and we became closer after the divorce than we were before! (But that’s another discussion for another day.)
Heart
Robert, can you see that your point here is a bizarre distraction/derailment. Instead of talking about any of the major points of this piece (which you claim to have found interesting), you are commenting on a tiny use of language issue (again). If you don’t have anything to say about the actual content, why do you feel a need to jump in? Was that one use of language issue the thing you found most interesting about the piece?
balance: having equal weight on both sides
imbalance: being out of balance
If the ratio of women to men is not 1 to 1, then the ratio is out of balance. In particular, in this context, assuming that homosexuality is roughly equally common in men and women, if there are more women than men (the genders are imbalanced), then heterosexual women will be more likely to be unable to find a partner. Therefore, they will be more likely to fear ending up alone, therefore, they will view dating outside their particular pool as a way of accessing additional men, and balancing out the gender ratio.
I am really struggling to see a) why you thought it was worth bringing up b) what you were having a hard time understanding about the passage that you were referencing.
Charles, I don’t think it’s a tiny language issue. I think it’s potentially revelatory of a certain mindset wherein white intellectuals implicitly claim to know what’s best for other populations, or society as a whole. As that’s a rather harsh charge to bring, I attempted to explore it quietly by asking what was meant by those phrases.
My wife is Mexican, and I find it extremely irritating that “interracial relationships” are assumed to refer only to black/white pairings. Ignoring the other races perpetuates their invisibility in public discussion. It is esspecially irritating to ignor a race – in discussions about race in the U.S. – that has a greater population in the U.S. than blacks.
Or am I derailing this discussion by not confining such remarks to an immigration thread ghetto/bario where Latino issues belong?
Decnavda, I don’t think that anything in this thread assumes that all interracial relationships are black/white. It just happens to be talking about that particular subset. Hispanic/white would be an interesting subject for another thread, as would Oriental/white, Arab/white, and others which I’m sure I’ve forgotten to mention.
Yes, yes, interesting for another post. But when? My point is that “racial” issue discussions always happen, by some bizzare coincidence, to exclude the second – largest racial group in the U.S. Your comments about other types of pairings ignors the brute numbers of Latinos in the U.S. Sure, Asian/Arab pairings might be just a bit eosoteric for most U.S. discussions. But ignoring Latinos in the U.S.? Again?
Decnavda, I’d wager that at least part of that disregard stems from a semi–surreptitious feeling on the part of many white people that Hispanics aren’t really a separate race; they’re basically white. Or at least, they’re a lot “closer” to white than black people are, from the old-fashioned unreconstructed racist POV. Maybe a dark shade of white, but…
I know that doesn’t seem to make any logical sense, but I have memories of bizarre conversations with members of my family a couple generations back who were shocked and outraged when a kid in the family would date someone who was black, but showed total complacency when the same kid turned around and married someone Hispanic; that was completely fine, for some reason. The closest thing to coherency I could get out of them when my consistency-minded younger self pressed the point was “it’s just not the same, is all.” Maybe it’s because the partial white ancestry possessed in some degree by nearly all Hispanics and American blacks “shows” in Hispanics?
Well, what the heck. The original topic has kind of stalled out (over four hours since the last post which was really on-topic), so why don’t we add Hispanic/white to the discussion, as well as any other mixtures anyone cares to talk about. Decnavda, since you have personal experience (albeit from the male side), can you come up with lists for Hispanic and white women similar to those in Rachel’s post?
My own disconnected observations:
1. Not sure what it means, if anything, but the gender balance for Hispanic/white relationships seems to be a lot closer to even than black/white (usually the man is black) or Oriental/white (usually the man is white).
2. The stereotype which would seem most likely to cause trouble is that Hispanic women are highly sexual. (Not long ago some Mexican beer company used the slogan “Finally, a cold Latina” to refer to their product. People got very upset.)
3.In Mexican culture, it’s expected that a married man will have a mistress. (I’m not spouting a stereotype; my wife lived in Mexico for two years and observed this first-hand. It may be true of other Central and South American cultures as well; I don’t know.) An American woman who marries a man from Mexico (as opposed to a U.S.-born of Mexican descent) may find this hard to deal with.
First let me respond to the question about what constitutes and interracial relationship. The Census does not define Latinos as a race, and many researchers call Latino/White marriages interethnic marriages, mainly because the census argues that Latinos can be of any race and the common ancestry is in Latino America. That said, I personally use the term intermarriage when talking about White Latino marriages in part because I think a marriage between myself (White woman) and someone like the rapper Fabolous (black looking Latino) would be treated differently than some one like Emilio Estevez (White looking Latino). Nevertheless, personally I see each combination as an intermarriage and I think we need to have more discussion about the various types of intermarriages. What is funny is that the academic literature focuses more on Asian White intermarriage than the other types of intermarriages. The few studies on White Latino marriages are just starting to come out and are very important because 1/2 of all intermarriages in this country are between Whites and Latinos. That certainly doesn’t justify overlooking it. In fact, White/American Indian, White/Asian, and White/Latino marriages are all much more common than Black/White marriages, which you would not know by listening to everyday gossip. But to come back to the original question–it is not so easy to decide what constitutes an interracial marriage and many people do not agree with me.
So why do I focus on Black White marriage, and why are Latinos excluded from this particular analysis? There are two primary reasons. One is methodological. When you do interview studies, you don’t usually have a big enough sample to make comparisons across many different groups. If I had the money as a grad student to interview hundreds of people, I could have compared family approval for different racial/ethnic combos. The second point is more theoretical. The history of interracial marriage is very different for each group. For example, laws were never passed specifically against White/American Indian marriages. Laws against White/Latino marriages were extremely rare, and laws against White Asian marriage were a little more common but still confined to only a few states and municipalities. On the other hand, most US states (I think 42.) had bans on Black/White marriages. Significantly more time and attention was given to preventing these marriages. Moreover, common stereotypes of each racial/ethnic group are different–for example the Latin lover, the Oversexed Black man, and the asexual Asian man stereotypes; thus, the issues facing each group are different in some ways. (And as a side note, my area is African American studies, so a study on White/Asian marriages, just wouldn’t have allowed me to get the types of jobs I wanted. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think the other intermarriages are important to study. They are–I just didn’t do that study.
@Mandolin “Isn’t there also a stereotype that white women who date black men are less attractive than other white women?”
Yeah, I think so, but it didn’t come up much in my interviews. I think because I was looking at family approval. I think in general many Blacks believe this, but they don’t seem to say it about their relatives, just people they are not as close to.
@ Lee “So maybe those of us who were born in the 1960s forward are more accepting of interracial marriages?” I think we are more tolerant, but I think the current attitude amongst most people is “if other people want to do it they can but it’s just not for me.” Or in some cases I hear this one, “I’m just not attracted to people of other races.” What is interesting about this is that people don’t really think about why, they just assume it is natural. It’s almost like–it’s Ok for other people, but not for me and not for my family.
@Robert
Charles, summed up the point I was making about sex ratios very well.
I also think that they idea that Black/White marriage is more threatening is true in many families. I have seen that with the people I know, too. however, I haven’t studied it.
Great post and fascinating discussion.
Rachel, in your studies, what distinctions do you and other researchers make between “race” and “culture”? And how does “ethnicity” play into it? In other words, what do you make of people who say, “well, I don’t want anyone in my family to marry a black/white/Asian/Latino(a) person because their culture is different”?
Yeah, I think so, but it didn’t come up much in my interviews. I think because I was looking at family approval. I think in general many Blacks believe this, but they don’t seem to say it about their relatives, just people they are not as close to.
That’s pretty interesting in itself.
Your subject seems to be entirely focussed on opposite sex couples, which is an ok area of study, but I would like it if you made that more explicitly clear.
I have a widowed friend who was in an inter-racial lesbian relationship for many many years. Apparently, black/white pairings used to be much more common in the lesbian community than the heterosexual community, like around the 70’s or 80’s. In fact, when she moved from NYC to Oakland, CA, she and her partner were startled by the incredibly high number of lesbians. Wherever they went, they saw black and white women talking to each other! Finally, they realized that Oakland was just integrated and when they saw women of different races interacting, it didn’t indicate queerness.
My girlfriend’s parents are a black/white interracial couple, which makes my gf mixed race. I’m a white woman. Of course, family acceptance issues have an extra factor when you throw in the same-sex dynamic. However, her family has accepted me without any noticeable hesitation. We stayed with them for about a week or so last summer and everything seemed ok.
My family is tiny and kind of weird in general because all my living relations are male engineers who all seem like they have Asbergers. Reading them is impossible. They seem like they’re ok with my gf, but my dad made some disturbing comments about how she could pass for white. Ick. He was trying to say something about how he wasn’t racist and got sidetracked and it came out all wrong, which is kind of normal for him. I haven’t experienced any negative weirdness from my family aside from that one flubbed comment, and I don’t really expect to.
Rachel, did you see any information about black women’s attitudes toward white women in black/white IRs?
I ask because I recall a few years ago there was a movie that came out that had a black man and a white woman in leading roles. Apparently an initial version was filmed that showed a romantic (not just sexual, but romantic) relationship between the two. But they cut it and changed the story when they showed rushes of that portion of the film to a group of black women. The black women had a strong and vocal negative reaction to seeing the two kiss romantically. If this attitude was expressed by the women in a black man’s family towards his white girlfriend, I can see where the white woman might have a problem with continuing the relationship. But I don’t know whether this is common or not.
Well, my brother is in an interracial relationship(with a white woman), and my mother’s side of the family seems concerned about her family possibly being negative towards the relationship. I’ve tried to reassure, but they are just too worried. And on the derail, blacks and whites and Asians and Latinos don’t actually differ in which sexes they are assigned- we’re all assigned to two sexes in America. and usually, it’s a 1 to 1 ratio. Also, women tend to prefer guys with class statuses equal or more than theirs, so a college educated black woman is unlikely to go for the bro on the corner, even though they are of the same race, the same class is also preferred.
“Rachel, in your studies, what distinctions do you and other researchers make between “race” and “culture”? And how does “ethnicity” play into it? In other words, what do you make of people who say, “well, I don’t want anyone in my family to marry a black/white/Asian/Latino(a) person because their culture is different”?”
Good question, I purposely excluded all Blacks who were not African Americans (born and raise in the US) and all Whites who were not born or raised in the US, mainly because my focus was one how contemporary American racial ideology shaped family approval, and people who grow up in other cultures are socialized into a somewhat different racial ideology. However, there was a little ethnic variation, mainly within the White group. I had several Jewish respondents and both race and religion affected those couples. However, most of my respondents had a very weak ethnic identity in part because I wanted to “control” for cultural. The funny thing is that people think race=culture. Certainly, there are subcultural differences between Blacks and Whites, but the families seem to exaggerate those.
Les, I definitely think the IRs are more accepted in the lesbian and gay communities. I have done the research, but I did read a study on same sex Black couples based on Census data. They included any couples that had one or two Black people in their study, and 21% of the households were interracial. If you were to look at opposite sex Black households using the same methods (including all households with at least one Black person), the number is like 5%.
Ron, I think Black women’s disapproval of interracial relationships is much less pronounced in families than it is in the general community, which is the opposite of Whites. So basically, White have more of a problem with IRs when they involve a family member and less of a problem when it is some out in the general community. Blacks have more problem with IRs in the general community, but less of a problem when it is someone close to them.
Shannone, that is a very common response among Black families. I have a post about it over on my site.
I’m curious as to how Pacific Islanders are percieved in regards to race. My husband is mixed, Pacific Islander(Hawiian and caucasun American) and there was some discussion amongst my less educated conservative relatives that we had a “mixed-marriage”.
I’ve often dated across cultural and race lines, and I’ve done so because I was looking for someone that would treat me well. I refused to limit the pool of possible mates by race or culture. Oh, and I’m mixed culturally. My Grandmother was full blooded Italian, first generation native born American, and my Grandfather is Blackfoot Indian. And my Grandmother’s family had more problems with him not being Catholic than they did with his “race”.
Interesting discussion though, and I must say that I would be happy if my children married aliens from Mars if those men, women made them happy and treated them with dignity and respect.
Rachel; so then my question is, why? Is this because the black women think that the black man taking up with a white woman is showing black women a lack of respect? That he’s “social climbing”? Is it because the proportion of co-racial marriagable men (factors including education, employment, lack of drug habit or criminal record) are scarcer for black women than for white women and the white woman is thus taking one “off the market”? Or something else entirely?
I have no way to intelligently evaluate as to whether or not any of these are factors; I’m just throwing guesses out here.
Ron, I think the number of marriageable Black men is the biggest factor, but I also think that the stereotypes that Black women “have attitude” and are “less attractive than White women” is also a factor.
Rachel, another reason why many people think interracial marriages are not good is because they are more likely to end up in divorce then intraracial ones. There is some stat data to support that.
“the stereotypes that Black women “have attitude” and are “less attractive than White women” is also a factor. ”
That’s not a stereotype, if it exists it means it is based on some observations. So at least it must be partially true.
For whites, black women are less attractive in general, at least because one’s own race is always seem more atractive. Which is of course quite subjective in the first place. But it is the way it goes.
Now, American blacks are in fact mulattoes, so many have quite a lot of white blood, and may seem more attractive them real Africans.
Also, black women seem to be more often overweight that decreases their appeal.
They also have children early, so single mothers with childeren would understandably have lower marriage prospects.
Another thing, even if blacks do not have extra pounds, they are less likely then whites of the same age to be phisically fit. (Very rarely do I see 30-40 y. old. black females do recreational sports, as opposed to whites – like hiking, backpacking, canoeing, kayaking, scooba diving, biking etc.). I visited many US National Parks – few visitors there are black. Mostly whites and Asians.
Middle-aged black females does not seem attractive at all, as opposed to at least some white women that may still be in good shape and appealing.
Well, those are just average white guy perspectives – why white man – black woman pairs are so rare.
Igor, I can’t believe how many stereotypes of Black women you were able to rattle off in one post. You can’t really take yourself seriously? I’d imagine that if you met a Black woman that met all of your criteria; you would still have a problem with her–because she’s Black. Just be honest…don’t beat around the bush. You don’t like Black women because they are Black.
While I completely disagree with your racist views of Black women (they are simply gross exaggerations), unfortunately, I think you are right that your perspective does represent many of the “average White guys”–not all White men, but probably a majority of them.
This is also why I think those directing critcism at Black women, saying that they are responsible for the low numbers of BW/WM IRs, need a big reality check. Racists like you are probably more the norm than non-racists.
I’m going to do the dreaded “but what about men” here :p.
Okay, first of all, I do believe that stereotypes on black women are an issue here, but the marriage/sexual selection is not just men picking women they find attractive. I’d go as far to say that women’s choices are more relevant.
So perhaps part of the problem is perceptions on the attractiveness of white and asian men to black women. I don’t buy that it is completely about white/asian men finding black women unattractive.
There are plenty of racial stereotypes about men, too.
Tuomas, I think the male stereotypes matter too, and I have another post on men in IRs. This one was just about women.
Yes, I understand this was about women specifically, I have no objections to that. I didn’t mean to come across too critical to that fact (but the subject of was raised by Igor).
It was partly a response to him, too (for example, I don’t agree with the generalization “because one’s own race is always seem more atractive”) .
(but the subject of was raised by Igor).
of men was.
I am in an inter-ethnic marriage, to a white latino. For what it’s worth, hispanics I have met in my personal life and through work are much more openly racist and opposed to intermarriage- with African Americans , that is. I have also heard (unverified but it was a prosecutor who told me) that when there are honor killings of Arabic women in the Detroit area (yes, it happens here), it almost invariably involves a Black boyfriend.
Rachel,
“racist” labels that are liberally thrown around by feminist/socialist wackos like you don’t bother me. Because they are meaningless. I gave you some quite substantial reasons why white men may not favor black females as partners, much less wifes and mothers of their children. Whatever women may think of them, those are some of at least some men’s thoughts on the subject. There are other interesting moments as well. To change those perceptions one would have to change the reality, which is next to impossible. You may not see the issue the same way as a man because you are not one. And I am not sure if you even have any experience of having a family and children of your own to give you some additional perspective.
I started, for example, with the fact that data shows that interracial marriages fail more often. Want to dispute that? Or explain?
Tuomas,
I agree that generally we have to take into consideration preferences of both sexes. But the more desirable a particular segment of population, the more it influences the couple composition, and not the opposite gender. For example, famous and wealthy sport figures (like OJ Simpson) would get a wide selection of potential partners to choose from. And the result would depend more on what he would prefer, not what his potential female partners would.
In many practical “race-does-not exist” type ways, for black females white males would be preferable over black ones – they on average have better education and professional skills, less criminal record, less history of drug abuse, higher IQ, make more money, are better fathers, less promiscuous, less likely to cheat, have connections through family/friends to more succsessful segments of society, wider interests and hobbies etc. So why BW would not choose them given the chance? (Unless of course, as I said earlier, every race favor its own.) There are simply not that many chances. WMs prefer WFs. ANd, for the most part, visa versa.
Igor-
I know it is politically incorrect to call bigots like you “bigots” or “racists”, we are supposed to call you “politically incorrect.” But I call people what they obviously are, and you are obviously a bigot and a racist. Even a white male lover of the free market like me can see that.
Yeah. 2% sense, 98% the kind of thing that makes me end up grimly and repetitively clenching my hands every time I go down south. That’s a damn high noise:signal ratio. Go back to your rock, Igor.
1) They do not have the chance
or/and
2) BW specifically are not attracted to White/Asian men, for some reason
Every race favors it’s own does not follow from the facts of interracial marriage, or even from anything you wrote (meaning the generalizations based on… whatever.)
Igor wrote:
I’m fine with “feminist/socialist,” but not “wackos.”
Banned.
Is this thread still open? I am white married to Egyptian. I would never have considered this an interracial relationship except that a black american girl told me I was in a “mixed marriage,” at which point it occurred to me that according to American racial categories I was indeed in an interracial relationship.
The biggest problems I have encountered in this relationship are not really tied to the fact that we are different colors, but more to just the fact that our cultural norms that we were raised in are so different. In terms of how outside people perceive us as a couple, Egyptians tend to see it as a very positive thing, and sometimes in a way that makes me rather uncomfortable (there is in Egypt, like in India, this sort of fetishization of whiteness, and sometimes it seems that I am on a pedestal because of my color, though the Egyptians who do this, in fairness to them, are not completely conscious of it). Americans see it as negative not so much because they see it as race mixing as that they are suspicious of Islam. I have never encountered a white American who was angry at me for marrying a brown person but lots of white Americans who wonder what it is like to have married a Muslim / Arab in a way that shows they have a sort of fear of those categories.
Also I tend to think that there are two competing forces of nature at work when people select mates – on the one hand a lot of societies condition their members to marry inside the tribe so to speak, on the other hand I think the human species like others would logically become stronger if people married outside the tribe and thus there are lots of people who are attracted to people who look very different than them. The problem with studying the human race is that socialization and nature categories are impossible to isolate.
I would like to reply to Igor.
I believe that your ignorance is purely superficial. This is the result of knowing few blacks on a personal level.
Don’t get me wrong! I am not coming here to throw stones. I know I have my faults as well. However, I would like to think that I am a realist. Guess what? I have to honestly say that I am ignorant, because I have my stereotypes about white men as well.
Oh, and about that attitude…
The aggressive, confident, opinionated, and outspoken nature of most black women is often mistaken for the ‘attitude’. Let me guess… you want a subservient woman, right? I am sure that your choice of a woman without ‘attitude’ isn’t color specific, unless you are truly a racist. If it is, then I think that we have opened up a can of worms, don’t ‘cha think? LOL From your post, Igor, I can tell that you have an over abundance of ‘attitude’. How can the pot call the kettle black? Quite often, we find the flaws of others interesting and we fail to look in the mirror at ourselves. Kinda makes us feel better about ourselves, right? But… it is definitely wrong!
The point of my post is to advise you to not confuse your ignorance with superiority. We can’t make this mistake because I firmly believe that love can not be limited to skin color. Who is to say that you cannot find love in a brown skinned woman, becuase she is brown skinned?
Just because I don’t have faith in loving a white man, doesn’t mean that it is not possible….
In response to all the stereotypes regarding black women and white mens lack of attractiveness to them Id like to state. I am a 30 year old black women who was an escort for 10 years and ALL my clients were white men with white wives and kids.
The MAJORITY of these guys stated that they have always been attracted to black women but felt that black women were not attracted to them so ended up marrying white women instead. I had clients that were loyal to me for my whole career, these men bought me cars, clothes, jewlerry etc and then would go home to their white wives and kids. Most even went as far as to say that they are not even sexually attracted to their white wives and never have been and that they prefer women of dark complexions.
So I think that in some cases alot of white men are attraced to attractive black women but due to their insecurities regarding black male sexuality they believe that their chances will be limited with black women.
Interesting. Igor came on my site a few weeks ago wanting to debate how black rape victims were treated by the justice system. He didn’t believe there were any inequities and I found a paper that showed that there were. Needless to say, Igor didn’t come back to debate.
Having read his comments here and over at Signifying Nothing where he gleefully referred to the Duke alleged victim as a “ghetto ho,” I now see his soullessness. Karma being what it is, he may find himself having to reach out for help from one of us fat, black, greasy, five-kid-toting, ball busting black ghetto ho’s. By the way, I don’t have any kids, so I guess I’ll have to rent some. Oh, and I don’t live in a ghetto, and oh, I’m not a ho. Guess that busts his fantasy.
I’m writing Igor off as a troll, personally. Ugh. Why else would someone come in and spue hate all over a thread meant for discussion?
Sabrina, wrt your comment that, in your experience, many white men are attracted to black women but think that black women won’t give them a chance: I’ve heard the same thing from Asian men about both white and black women – these men don’t think they stand a chance because white and black women “aren’t attracted to Asian men.” That’s absolutely NOT true, of course, but this belief holds them back. And what a pity. Love is a precious gift no matter what color it comes wrapped in.
Me too, and he’s therefore been banned.
Crystal wrote:
When I lived in South Korea, one of my male Korean friends was dating an Englishwoman who was one of my colleagues. I happened to mention this fact in a casual conversation with a group of Korean men to whom I was giving private English lessons. Their entirely unironic response was, and I quote, “What a man!” They figured that my friend must possess some super masculine mystique that allowed him to “get” a white woman.
sabrina, no offense intended, but I have to wonder how many of these men really meant what they said–that they would have honest-to-gosh married a black woman if only–instead of simply seeing you as the fantasy, right before they went home to their wives and families.
I’m a black woman who is attracted to all men. However, when I was younger, I thought that I was solely attracted to white men. For some reason, that changed. I do like Italian and Australian men. I guess, these men are stereotypically more masculine than other European men. I love masculine men. But as I got older, i’m more attracted to men of color, especially latino men. I just come to realize that with latino men, you know for the most part where they are coming from,but with a white dude, you don’t know if he’s just using you for some sort of black fantasy, or some weird fetish thing. But, I guess with the whole dating a person of color, there is a comfortability thing, that sadly isn’t there with a white man. Like, with a latino dude, because black and latinos share the same environments, you can relate to them more, on a certain level. And for the most part, a latino dude will have somewhat of the same makeup as a black man, so it’s not really dating a different culture. Plus Latino men got that machismo thing. But, if Italian men, they have that masculine thing, that makes them ethnic.
My “black wife” met me at our company and she pursued me (because I was a manager and did not want to step over boundries I said nothing) to the point that we are now 1) together 2) have a son and 3) have a life together. Truth be told I wanted to pursue her, and was to the point that I was ready to quit to tell her I wanted to pursue her…whew. God granted my wishes and made life easier.
It should be noted that my wife is one who believed she would end up with a black man.
This post – I assume is from an American presepective – and it stinks. Stereotypes, beauty, family and all of that we confronted and dealt with. My family is from Greece and England, her’s is from Jamaica. We made it work because we wanted it to work. And OUR families love our son, and RESPECT our union. It would have been easier to be with a “white” woman (what does that mean without a hypen), but it wouldn’t have to me because it wouldn’t have been us.
And I could not think of a day without her: Not as a “black” or “African-Canadian” woman, but this woman.
Yes there is relevance to a select few of the arguments posted. But the real relelvance is two people risking all, building a home, having children and walking together towards a common future. That is what life – to me – is about.
And race is not required for this journey.
Here it is…
I am a 21 year old white female in a relationship with a 25 year old black man. We have been together for five months and we just moved in together last month. So far the hardest part of this relationship was my mother meeting my boyfriend. I never viewed my family as racist until the day she met him. Suprisingly, my mother had more of a problem with him than my father. My father didn’t meet him until just recently and made the comment, “yeah, he seems really laid back. I like him”. My mother’s comments on the other hand were, ” I just don’t believe in interracial relationships, don’t get me wrong, I’m not a racist, but my friend is in an interracial marriage with two children and they are now getting a divorce, and she made the comment to me that no one is going to want her now that she has interracial children”. Personally, I think thats a crock. Maybe it’s true that us in “Generation Y” are more open to diversity and challenge than that of others. Not only am I as white as they come (blonde hair, blue eyed, German-Irish-Sweedish) I am in love with an Islamic African-American with dreadlocks, and I couldn’t be happier.
Most white people are (still) under the pitiful illusion that they are superior to other people hence their constant opposition to interracial relationships.It is as simple as that.That illusion of superiority is the bane of a lo of the problems we have on earth today,whether concerned with marriage or whatever else.
It is interesting that statistically,they are the race least propagated on earth now.Soon enough,we would no longer have racism because they would have been ‘integrated’.This is unfortunate but it seems the only way out from the senseless wickedness most of them mete out to other races.
I’m black and marry white and what is funny is that people need to stop seeing color, you need to check your family tree and believe me everyone have some mixture in there family no one is pure so get over it and over your self. you can’t talk about it unless you been through it. It like how some one who never been in relationship like that tell someone what they are going to go through.
Here in the UK the stereotypye is that white girls are easy, can anyone tell me if this is the same in the states?
Hello, I have never entered these types of sites so if I go on to long please forgive me. I am looking into this site to help a friend. I wanted to see how some of the women work out problems with their families when they became involved in a black and white relationship? Also, have any of you run into rejection by other race males if and when the interracial relationship
failed? I was hoping to get some help in how you worked it out with your families? I have a friend who was staying with me as she is a white female with a mixed one year old child. Right now, it seems she has lost out completely, i.e., her family will not claim her anymore plus she dated bad. The guy was trash… black white or any other color he was trash.
I am trying to bring the family back together as this was a close family, but now the family is lost. Also, I know she has been reject by some white males after they learn about the kid. Yes, I am sorry to say it does happen even now. My friend is hurt I am just trying to help her pick herself back up. I was just wondering how some of you girls handle these issues. As for the dating thing I told her she needed to be up front about her past relationship, if they do not like it she lost nothing plus she will not feel rejected if feelings start to develop. I told her she needed to be strong and realize this might happen. I told her she knew what she was getting into when she crossed the color lines. I could really use some help as I am not sure how to bring her smile back Anger is no good for the soul and right now she is mad as hell. I do not think she will try to date another white guy even though she seems to like black and white guys
She turned to me for help as she knew my family and its black history. She really is a nice brown hair and green eyed girl; a really nice person. I am sure some of you have run into this and I like to know how you handled it? I have run into this matter before and I feel I handled it wrong so I am trying to handle it better. In my location their is not a lot of black and white mixing so it is hard for her. I understand how it feels to get rejected as I have black heritage in my family twice from several generations back. Eighth black and fifth generation half black. Also Native American on both sides of the family. Even though I am white male with blond hair blue eyes I did live in a small town where everyone knew each other well so some knew my family. Yes, the European blood line is strong. Not at first, but once it takes control it comes back strong. You read correctly, I have black heritage and I am a white male. When I was real young I was rejected despite the fact that the girls liked me. It was fine until their families got involved and learned who my family was. One girl told me why we could not date as her family did not what us to get involved. I did not know what she was talking about until I talked to my Grandmother and learned of my black history. I figured this help explained why I got along with the black people so well. Anyway, it is not just a issue of skin color or features some families do not want anything to do with the mixing period. This goes both for black and white families. I truly understand how my friend feels, because I can tell you as a teenager this rejection hurt like hell. It made me so mad I will not date a white girl. To date I have not date a white girl since I was in my teens. I have mostly dated Latin girls and a couple of few Asian.
The other races are mixing at 4 x the rate in all directions . As I recall since 1980 -2005 it was reported that only 360,000 marriages ensued between black and whites, which is around 14,400 per year. Native American and Asians were in the upper Million, so why does everyone make a big deal of this mix. Who cares really if you check state by state white woman had to consider other races, because in some states the white woman our number the white men as much as 100,000 – 150,000, thus, at lot of lonely women. Especially with Latin, Asian, Native Americans taking white men. If the white men do not like the mix they should have stayed in their own year to play. I believe if people are happy leave them alone. Ever since I was pained at a young age with race I keep up with stuff like this for more then ten years. I like the mix so people should relax as some are going to mix. There are lot of people in all races that refuse to mix, but it is all good. Anyway, could anyone give me some info to help my friend so I do not screw it up? I know how to handle this as a guy, but I need some advice on this issue with a woman
I shared my history to point out that race DNA can go either way, but I will admit I have only see the European line return time and time again when mixed with other races My family among a few others I know are proof of this fact even with steady race mixing between black and Native Americans. We have the complete family tree history so I know the facts. There may even be some Latin, but that goes further back then 1790s Well I hope people realize race is here to say. It okay, we just need to learn to get along. This is my goal, i.e., I like to help this family re-connect and get along. Anyone care to assist. I hope I did not hurt anyones feeling as that was not my intent.
Demetress: I could not agree more. I was making a point of this in my comments. I am white with blond hair and blue eyes and I have two Great Grandmothers that were black woman. My appearance blows most peoples mind.
My marriage to a black woman lasted three months after 4 years of courting, breaking up, fighting, and searching for common ground. I had only one problem…..I am a white man who married a beautiful, loving, intelligent, and caring black woman who’s mother drilled into her that men are not to be depended on for anything. That attitude became insurrmountable in very short order. Her mother’s three marriages failed and now her daughter’s is dissolving daily. WHY??
Hello again, a few days ago I left a thread in hopes of helping a friend out. I wanted to know how some of you woman handled your family in a black and white relationship. Well thanks anyway, but I do not think anything will fix the damage in myfriends family unit. As mentioned a few days ago I told you about a white female friend of mine with a one year old biracial child. My friend’s black boyfriend dumped her and her family disowned her and on top of that they cut off her college fund. She was staying with me and I was trying to connect the family bond between her and her family . It seems the family feels she lied and disrespect them so they feel if she is big enough to do that she is big enough to make her own mind up and provide for herself and her baby. I really hate this as this was a really close family. I talked to her and she said her family is hard headed and if they removed her from the family it is for good. I did not think it could be that bad, but I guess I was wrong. I really did need some advice,but I do not think anything you could offer will make a difference. Today I changed my mind on the racial mixing. I feel that even though we are slowly removing the race issue we are in return creating a new evil form of hate. We are creating cold hearted hate within our own family units. There is nothing more important then blood and family values. If we destory this bond we destory ourselves. I have always been a black sheep and dated out of color lines even before it started becoming more common. However, this is twice I have seen a daughter disowned from their family at a young age. Really counting one guy this is the third time I seen this family hate. I really hate the loss I see in some families as it is enough to tear you apart on the inside. I guess it is true krama has a way of coming back to you. I see around town some lonely black women and on line there is a lot of black women whom are alone, so I guess it is karma when I see white women, like my friend, who lost their black boy friend and family left by themself and alone. Life just is not fair no matter how good of a person you are. Well I felt that I should explain myself regarding why t I no longer need your help. I really do not think any advice you offer will make a difference.
I have been in an interracial marriage for 25 years. I have had children and they are grown. It was never a problem to anyone in my family or his. The problem remains in society that makes everyone believe that it is wrong to marry out of your race. In this day and time people should be ashamed to still be whining over race. My husband and I have never cared about what other people thought or what our families thought. We love each other and have everyday for our entire adult lives. Our children never suffered cruelness from either race. Sterotyping people because of color is just wrong. Does it have to matter who you marry as long as it is for the right reasons? Do we still in this day and time have to make racial issues still prominent. It makes no sense that people just cant live, love, and be happy for one moment in their life without having to always make race a factor.
I am always bemused and amused about the intense discussions interacial relationships seem to generate, particularly in the Black community. I often think that people must have a ton of time on their hands to spend so much time dissecting discussing us (lol). And I completely agree with Celina above.
The couple, interacial or otherwise made a choice to be with each other. That’s no-one’s business but theirs. (No one’s including people of colour). It is their relationship and other people should keep their noses out.
Unfortunately society sees fit to “research” “question” and “discuss” the “reasons why they might be together” and of course they absolutely must bring in the race factor. At least in the US. In Canada and the UK, we seem not be too bothered about why couples decide to be together. How about this one singular fact? That couples love each other and want to be together and want to commit to each other? Just like any other couple?
But no. So-called intellectuals need to discuss the “racial aspects” real or imaginary of the relationship. I mean, they must come in musn’t they? That is,, after all why interracial couples are “different” isn’t it? Must make life interesting for the intellectuals. Either that, or they really have nothing better to do and need to get a life. Meanwhile, we will continue to love each other and live our lives. Just like any other couple.
As Celina says, whinging about race and stereotypes or lack thereof, in other peoples relationships, with all the more important issues we have in this world is pretty sad. I think it’s pretty pathetic myself.
Rachel.
I too have been in several interraacial (white woman/black man) relationships over the past 25 years. I was married for 12 years and have a beautiful mixed daughter. I was shocked in reading all of the blogs that the subject of cheating among black men in interracial relationships never came up. Also drug use of the black men in relationships with white women was not mentioned. I have been exposed to many black men that smoke crack cocaine and or marijuana. How about how being in this type of relationship effects the passive white woman. Most white women who date black men are aggressive by white standards but passive by black standards.
I feel I have enouth experience in these types of relationships to give some insight on these issues. However I am wondering, are these problems greater among black/white pairs than among white/white pairings?
What is up with black/white topic? I have been raised as a half breed asian/black. I don’t get accepted fully by neither black, white, or asian. When will biracial people have a say in all of this? they are the one’s who get the beat down from all of this racial talk. Black girls from what I have experience has more prejudice and ghetto attitude towards half breeds; asian females/males rather date a white person to move up a class and have so called “nice looking kids”, and white guys who feel that they are gods gift to the human race feel that minority females are suppose to kiss the ground they walk on- how disillusioned can someone get!!and majority of black men can rarely have an intelligent conversation about geography, financial investment, community involvement, and education. But yet and still they expect society to feel sorry for them…. when our forefathers who have helped paved the way for african americans have never used “race” as an excuse for not succeeding. Why is it a great MAJORITY of african american males do not feel the need to go to college instead of going into the entertainment and sports.
DECNAVDA, I agree with your comment about the discussion restricted to black/white. I think the subject is deeper and inclusive all all people regardless of classification. At the same time we are taking baby steps, and so we have begun to disect the issues, starting with a small portion of the American Pie, whose cultures have a history of misunderstansings.
I believe that this starting point, is not meant to alienate anyone, and surely your point of view is vital to the progression of the intergration.
I am a beautiful, fair skinned, mixed DNA, American Goddess, and at this point, I am not going to limit myself to white/black, I want the whole rainbow! :)
When I saw the title of this entry I immediately got tense. However, upon reading it I discovered that I am in full agreement with your research. I am a black man that would NEVER date a white women for the prime reason that my black sisters need good black men (like myself).
Not to get to indepth, but the reason I say this is is because we as a people cannot see the world as one big happy family when we are getting the short end of the stick globally.. from AIDs to Poverty the darker your skin the more you suffer in this racially divisive world created by white men.. and supported by white women. So basically when there is a war for survival… troops of the same uniform must stick together. .. by all means necessary…
Pingback: Stand UP Black People.com » Women’s Dilemmas in Black/White Relationships - very interesting
I respect every other persons right to be opinionated, for I am also a very opinionated person. But the long ( and short of it, AND this is MY opinion), is that the black woman/white man, black man/ white woman dating issue has moved far beyond it’s usefulness. I mean, face it, who really gives a thin dime who dates whom anymore?
I am a beautiful caramel skin toned BLACK WOMAN who dates men of any race and ethnicity (I do not date non- Christians, though). I do this because I LIKE the freedom of choice involved, and the many differing cultures and familial backgrounds that I am introduced to. I was once stuck in the quagmire of dating only men of my race, because I was too afraid of being an outcast among my kind, or I was too worried about what people would think. In the meantime, all the quality or interesting men just passed beyond me. Boy, I missed out on so much all those years…
I must admit, I digress; but, the point I am getting to is people should stop being so uptight about this interracial dating thing: quit worrying about the color of your skin, the texture of your hair, your racial background, quit hating on other’s cause you are still stuck in the twilight zone, quit worrying about what your family or friends will think (or society) if you step out with someone other then who they think you need to be with, quit worrying about what other people think about you period cause what you do is all it is, quit trying to be some person that you are not, quit judging everyone (or race/gender) by the actions of just one other person, stop tryna put the next person down because you think you’re better then he/she when you know you’re not. In general, just quit stressing about the small things period because life really aint that crucial.
I am a Black Man born and raised from poverty, hard times, and the ghetto. I am from the Mid West and have been with black and white women. I have two wonderful black boys from a woman who has a black mother and white father. She claims her black roots over her white. All mixed children are forced to choose sides sooner or later in their lives. We were married at a young age and 7 years later we divorced. I have been around the world twice and I am currently living in Greece and dating a local. It has been a year and we are in love with each other. We want to be together by all means, but we both feel it is too early to get married, for we have not spent enough time together because of her job as a Flight Hostess. I want to say screw it and marry her becouse of my love for her, but, I have never had a relationship other than sexual with a white woman, and since I am black and ghetto, I am worried about the reaction from my people. I once had a bad experience taking awhite female co worker to a black club. The black women looked at us, and mainly me with sheer hatred in thier eyes. the black men looked at her and then me, but visually asking me, why did you bring her here? We were only friends and they made us both feel very uneasy. No matter what anyone says it is hard to ignore that type of energy. I know this should not bother me but it does. If I bring this woman to the U.S. I don’t want to feel uneasy where I would normally feel secure ie… getting my ghetto pass revoked. It is a shame I am second guessing my future happiness because of societies critical, racist eye.
Mr. Johnson, I’m a black woman married to a white man for 20 of our 26 years together. We had a better social life in New York City than in the mostly white town in Connecticut where we live with our two daughters. It seems we are rejected by white and black middle class societies. We don’t fit in anywhere, except with other interracial couples, who are excactly our match. White women married to black men don’t identify with us either. Those couples seem guilty and defensive. I was thinking of starting an exclusive support group of our mix to see if we can help each other.
I am a Black woman, not some weird freak that needs to be “studied.” My relationships whether they be with a White man, Black man or any one else don’t merit discussion because I am entitled to date, to love and to marry whomever I deem worthy enough to be with this Black queen. I am getting sick of people placing so much emphasis on the color of my skin instead of the content of my character. White liberals repulse me, they act like they are friends of Black people but instead just want to use them to ease their guilt. Give me a White conservative any day of the week, I spend my life surrounded by them and you know what I get? Treated like an equal. They see Dena, not poor Black Dena. Not a Black single mother (though being a mother is something I am extremely proud of!) but Dena. Liberals are always looking to make us victims, well you know what-I am not your victim! I never will be your victim! I am strong woman and I don’t need you to point out the downside of being Black is-I know what it is-I live with it. But it just makes me all the stronger! Stop worrying about stupid stuff like who Blacks are dating and start worrying about your own life and leave us alone!
to pick up on an old old thread…
The history of colonial Latin America is one of intense color-based racism, just as virulent as in the United States (but with more gradations than simple Black and White). While I have no particular data to show this, I would not be surprised if the prevailing hispanic attitudes toward relationships with black people come out of that.
Tradition is a @#*^%$.
This was actually quite interesting to me. It amazes me that we still deem this as an issue. Granted this is something we cant avoid because of all the history that comes along with it, it hurts me that people are still so against it. I am a White woman and i have dated men from all color of the rainbow and not seen their race as a factor EVER. In one of my experiences in which i dated a Black man i finally got a taste of these stero-types on White women. His mother dissaproved becasue i was White and White women are “sluts who will put you in jail.” This deeply offended me seing as how she’d never met me or even took the time to try to, her mind was made up at the sight of my color. This issue ended our relationship.
I feel both races White and Black women who decide to date outside their race have to fight to overcome these stero-types. I’ve come to undersdtand that the cultures are different and that is sometimes an argument to not date outside your own race, but its like that in any relaionship, the merging of two worlds, i do not feel that is a relative reason.
I don’t know if this world will ever be accepting of this type of realtionship but i believe one day we will all realize color is nothing but just that COLOR, it does not determine the content of our character or our morals, beliefs, etc. One day i believe it wont matter.
In my opinion, interracial relationships can never be deemed to be wrong. However, when it comes to blacks dating outside their race i think it is a matter of putting the carte before the horse (as most black people do). We are not at that stage yet. We cant say bcos other races are dating outside their race we should too. And i think any black person who does needs to wake up.
As a fully educated black man, I believe my education will be of good use within the black community and elevating my people. Sadly, many brothas and sistas think about themselves only and use the sick excuse of “love” for dating outside their race.
It’s this same selfishness and NOT the white man that got us in this mess all together. It’s the same mindset of the chiefs and kings who sold us into slavery. Just think, what’s the consequence of a large percentage of educated black men and women choosing white partners? why not use such blessings for your people. I believe the rich are sent to the poor.
I as a black man need to stop thinking about myself only but should think about how my actions and my choices would benefit the black community one way or the other.
I have a deep conviction that whom you choose as a wife or husband ultimately affects the black community no matter how minute that effect. Collectively our choices of partners (and other decisions we make in our lives) would have a major impact on the mindset of the black community or on the power we have as a people to change the way we live.
So let no one be under the stupid illusion that interracial dating is what’s next for us as a people. I’m not saying IRs are wrong. Of course, we should think about our needs but they must not conflict with that of us as a people. That’s how Jews think and thats why they run things. I judge my actions by imagining everyone else within the black community doing the same thing.
Whoever has the ability to make the right decision has the potential to be a leader. There is still a lot of work to be done together as a people before we can start thinking solely of ourselves. An ounce of selflessness in every black person is a requirement needed for us to reach the heights we so desire as a nation. Read the preceeding sentence again. It’s not me it’s a principle of life.
“That’s how Jews think and thats why they run things.”
:-o
Yeesh.
Banned.
Rachel and follow bloggers,
This is an important issue for black women more than any other party in IRs. Historically, we (Black women) have come full circle from queens, slaves, niggra gals, mamies, sistas, miss things, and now women. Add to that education and financial accomplishments and you almost have a full person. Color rounds out the identity of “black” women. It is this color that cannot be ignored. It is this color that sends a signal to our brain that a black man with a white woman is self-hating. Before the “color blind” bloggers began to type understand that self-hate is as big a sin as there is in the black community. I’m sorry to say it is not murder or tax fraud. When you are a member of a group that is racialized as I am, you in effect began to racialize yourself as I do. Am I am victim? No. Am I still a slave? No. Am I free? Depends on who you ask, but I say I am free. So then, I am obviously not playing victim of a rascist world because I understand I am responsible for navigation through the racist, sexist, culturist, etc. clutter. So why then, is interracial dating a buzz topic? Because it is impossible to be color blind. Because race is easy to see and hard to explain. Sure, there are several ethnicities that require us to inquire about ancestry because we cannot delinerate through physical characteristics. But black and white are easy. And why am I as a psychologically healthy black woman who grew up in Miami with friends of every race and culture there is upset when I see a black man with a white woman because I have internalized some of the stereotypes brought out here in this blog just as we all have. Remember that slavery sullied the black psyche and the slave master’s psyche. Therefore, as Rachel’s focus groups point out I view BM/WW IRs as the black man’s internalized response to white racism. That in fact, he believes as Igor does. However, given the proud perserverance of my people I can quickly look to history and rectify my inferiority. I can know that black and white people died so that we can get close to colorblindness and at the same time understand colorblindness blinds. I respect everyone’s opinion on here and I am pleased that Michael and Azhar, and Mr. Johnsin were so forthright because we are not a monolithic group, and it can be hard when we have opinions of dissent–ie. date interracially. Still, to Michael’s point I know that the impetus behind the dissent is unity in favor of further divisiveness. In a way, I am saying to that brother with a white woman, don’t get hurt like you are hurting me right now. And yet still he says back, we are free now to choose and she may be on our side when the revolution comes. As for me I want to align myself with my community so that if the revolution is in fact, not televised I can still get reception. We all wait to see.
Igor, with this idea of people generally preferring their own race. Why is it that the majority of white Fathers feel the need to instill fear and loathing in their daughters towards black men?
If same race marraige is natural, why is this needed. She simply would not be attracted to black men.
Why is it that whenever a group of young college white girls get drunk in a party. They all start working their way over to the black men. And feeling on him and rubbing him. Then ofcourse the white guys rush over and grab them away ‘you have had enough to drink’, ‘we are going home’ says the white guys.
These guys arent even the boyfriends
But most women and non-white men, know that race is artificial. and that I am a man first. I love women.
More importantly most American white males get off on themselves and the race structure in America. They are usually in adolesence, insecure, lonely and with no real talents(ingored in high school etc.) But when they find are informed of the race and power structure, they form their entire indentities around it.
So throughout Corporate America I constantly run into theses guys. About 75% of white guys are like this. Race props up their self esteem. Without it they are boring nobody invisible white guys. With it, come entitlement and a sense of power.
This is only with AMERICAN white males. NON American white males have a much more objeective view of the world and their surroundings. Most black women married to white guys are NON AMERICAN white guys. People never talk about this, but it is so clear and evident.
And Hispanics are worst because they feel that oppressing black people makes them more ‘white’ and gives them the artificial feeling of being higher on the pecking order. But when they come into Corporate America the truth hits them and shocks them.
If race is artificial why are young white college girls working their way toward black men specifically, and not, say, Asian men?
Sadly, this topic will always be contentious. I have to say to the woman above (White woman) who stated that she does not see color when she dates a man. Let’s be real for once. Stating that, in my opinion, means that you fancy yourself superior in a sense. It’s like getting the “pat” on the back from a White person who tells you, “I don’t see color at all, we are all just people, blue, green, purple…whatever.” I hardly hear those words spoken from any other group.
There are no purple or blue people! Maybe Whites have the luxury of not having to view race as an every day “big deal” in their lives like most people of color do. Media of all kind constantly assure you of your worth. Your appeal is duly noted and considered standard. I am not trying to bash you (Whites) with my comments, but rather to think it, write it, and start to fully understand a few concepts myself. We see color when we fall for someone — and yes, we can fall in love “in spite of” in addition to “because of” race.
This is a great blog even if there have been folks to post awful things insulting a particular race of women. Some of you have written some big truths on this topic, and I have learned a great deal from gleaning.
Good day
To Mr. Johnson: at the end of the day, it is your happiness that you should be worried about. I would say in all fairness…don’t take your potential new wife to a place where you know you and she will not feel accepted. I know that may be a “trial and error” process for the most part, but who wants to be uncomfortable. Your choice has rewards and consequences, so start setting your life up for the type of relationship you have chosen.
What will these disapproving folks do for you and your Grecian goddess in the end? I must say that you obviously have a “type” of woman who you are attracted to and likely your family and friends know this…so, just live your life. Are you accepted in the Greek community? I am a Black woman who has dated interracially in the past and I have felt the need to protect myself from a potential situation of “concentrated dislike.” We cannot lives as islands, but I can tolerate the ignorance and stares — in small doses only. Good luck.
Nikki
Meant to say “we cannot live as”
I am a black female who has been with a white man for the last 11 years of my life. I could tell you some sad, funny, crazy, nasty, heartbreaking, and just real heart to heart stories. But most of that I will save for later. I dont see any problem with interacial relationships-let me explain. I have no children with my husband, but I do have two children by my first husband who is a black man. My husband now does have a daughter and she is part white and mexican.
Back to my children and to make this long story short, my son at the age of 6 1/2 when I left his father (who had a drinking problem at the time) asked me when he first met my new white husband is he my new daddy one time. I told him your daddy is your daddy you know who your daddy is. Now I am not a light skinned women I am dark skinned and yes I have long hair and a small to medium size body- so you know we met at the swimming pool my new white husband. Any way in the last 11 years I have be getting so much greif from my friends and even lost some good (or so I thought) friends because later in the relationship they found out my husband was white.
I have had a friend tell me that I should tell people new in my life that my husband is white. WHY? This is my man my husband why are you so interested in who I am with.
Let me explain something my ex-husband never wanted to do anything with the kids no even take them to the zoo. We both had jobs and money was not scarce. His excuse was that he had to go party with his friends and didnt have time. This same man would always say my son is gonna play football or he will be the next Micheal Jordan. Yet he never took the time to show his remind you HIS SON how to play football or basket ball, Hell he never even showed him how to ride a bike.
Yes my new white husband did that taught my son my black son how to ride a bike and much more, he took them my daughter included to science museums, county fairs, to the zoo, signed my son up for little league baseball, basketball, and soccer because my son did not want to do football.
We even took the kids to Walt Disney World in Florida yes in April of 2001 we went to Walt Disney World for a 5 day and 4 night stay and we went to every park. You might think thats material but I saw my childrens face when we went and they will remember that for the rest of there lives.
So no I dont tell all my friends what my new white husband has done but I sit back and listen to there thoughts on interacial relationships and just feel bad for some of them. Love is not about what race you are when will people learn that. Its about who you find to love you and you can love them back and get through the real hard and bad times together with out cracking under the pressure.
The problem of interacial relationships is not in the couple it is within the person or people who seem to have a problem with it.
And by the way me and my new white husbands daughter get along well and I am so glad that at present her and my children get along well to- thank
God for that. I have more to say but will save for a latter date.
Now one or two questions for the group. In this type of relationship how do you deal with things in the house when the ex is filling the teenage boys head with bad things like – you already have 3 strikes against you cause your black.
Dont listen to anything that white man tells you. This very confusing for a 13 year old boy who already has some friends that tell him he has a white daddy not many we keep thoses kinda of friends away as best we can. If any one has an answer or can offer help real help please respond.
I’m a white male, 29, married to a white woman, 30, and have a 6 year old daughter. I am attracted mainly to white women, russian women, asian women.
I think that humanity largely exists in image, kink, appearance, and surface. I think that this is largely unavoidable. Men are attracted to the smooth skin and curves of women; If women look like men, heterosexual men are simply not attracted. We don’t date or marry our best friends, no matter how much we love our friends. Sex and attraction is mainly, almost entirely, made out of “kink.” When women act submissive or dominant, they attract a certain type of male. If someone wears butterfly earings, they attract a certain something. If they wear ivory, that attracts something. If they talk rough, soft, prnatural, that attracts something. If they were horn rimmed glasses, or techie glasses, or contacts, that attracts something. The range of our attractions is broad spectrum, but it is particular.
How do we know race? Speech patterns, cultural patterns of who should do what in response to what, appearance, skin color, family structures, all these various things.
What I’m trying to say is: If someone is attracted to someone else for kinky reasons, then — where is the surprise in that? All of attraction is kink. Again, men aren’t dating men, here, (unless they’re gay.)
We are made out of particulars and differences. There should be no surprise then that our attractions are particular and different, and that the substance of love is particular and different. If a stereotypical image attracts, why are we surprised?
There is no such thing as loving a person in the abstract, except out of religious veneration to an ultimate abstract person, which, if we are respecting it right, means that we love all people, regardless of the particulars.
All other love is particular. So we should not be surprised that that black guy is attracted to the creamy white beauty of a white woman, or that a white guy is attracted to the tiger wildness of a black woman, and so on, and so forth. They’re stereotypes. They’re cheesy, even, so overdone, that we make fun of them. And yet they’re what we have, and what we’re attracted to. Women aspire to those images, and the magazines will teach you exactly how to reproduce them, all the way from your attitude, to your face, and to your choice of clothes.
Stereotypes aren’t just false, they also are what we live into, to different degrees. You can go see Mickey Mouse at Disney Land, even though he’s not real.
I still haven’t pieced together how to treat people fairly and kindly. It’s not obvious to me whether we should bind together behind sexual and racial codes of behavior, or if we should relax, appreciate people for who they are, and live and let live. The threats and discriminations that black people experience are very real, are they not? Real threats leads to binding together, codes of conduct, and so on. But respect for people outside all of these thoughts and stereotypes that control us, requires respect for people, whatever they choose, whatever they do. I cannot see a clear way to go.
I am a 23 year old black woman. I had a one night stand with a white guy last summer. It was the first time I had ever been with a white guy. I’ve never dated one or done anything romatic with one until last summer. I met him at my job working pool side at a hotel/casino in Las Vegas. He and his friends were lounging out by the pool and I was their cocktail server. He was very handsome. He was 26. He had a really nice body and a nice tan. I loved his personality. He and his friends were really sweet. The first day he did a little flirting with me but I was trying to concentrate on doing my jobs because it was really busy that day. I didnt take his flirting too seriously. But the next day it was not so busy. He and his friends came out to the pool again and requested me to be their server. He had the most amazing smile and he was sooo hot, like, Brad Pitt hot. I talked to him for a little bit and we both flirted with one another. It was like an instant attraction. I know it sounds weird but I felt this connection with him. I felt like I had known him for years. It seemed that he felt the same way about me. He was the easiest person to talk to. He made me laugh and smile and I really felt good when I was talking to him. I had just moved to Las Vegas from New York and I didn’t have a boyfriend so it felt really good just to talk to someone so nice and charming. He asked me if I wanted to go out to the club that night with him and his friends and that I should bring some of my friends along. Well, I only had made one friend so I asked her if she was up for it and she agreed. I was so delighted. We all met up at the casino that night and gambled a little bit before going to the club. He looked sooo sexy. Him and his friends paid for the limo to tote us around on the strip. It was just a really beautiful night in general. Anyway we all went to the club and danced the night away. The guys rented a table and ordered for bottles of liquor. I only had one drink because I had to drive myself home that night. At about 3 am he asked me if I was ready to go. I said that I was. He was just the perfect gentleman the whole night. Opening doors, kissing my hand, offering to do little things for me, etc, etc. It made me feel really good. No man had ever treated me that nice before. I told him that I was having a great time and I still wanted to hang out. We ended up going back to his hotel room just laughing and making jokes. I swear I had no intensions on sleeping with him at that time. I just wanted to hang out. I felt so comfortable with him that I went into his hotel room. We got comfortable and sat on his bed and talked some more. He told me how beautiful I was and how sweet I was. I wanted him to kiss me sooo bad. He slowly leaned in toward me and kissed me so gently and passionately that I thought my body was going to melt right then. He stroked my hair and begin kissing my neck and face. I got these little butterflies because he was such a good kisser and I was incredibly attracted to him. It started getting more heated and more intense. He began rubbing me all over my body. He suddenly stopped and started apologizing for moving too fast. I told him that it was okay because I really liked him. He said that he liked me too. We continued kissing. One thing led to another. Clothes came off. I was completely naked. He picked me up like Prince Charming and took me to the bed. I was nervous and excited. After he put on a condom we started having sex. My heart was racing, my palms were sweating. It was just really great. I had never had a one night stand before but I didnt care because I really liked this guy. He laid me down so gently. It was seriously the best sex I’ve ever had. After the sex, he held me in his arms. It was so sweet. We talked for a little bit. I loved the way he gazed into my eyes. He had amazing eyes. Soon after we fell into a deep sleep. I woke up around 10 am-ish. He did soon after. I felt kind of embarassed. I didn’t want him to think that I was a slut or that I did that sort of thing all the time, because I didnt. But he didn’t make me feel uncomfortable at all. He was still so sweet. I knew that he and his friends had to leave the next day so I just made up some excuses for why I couldn’t hang out with them later that day. I still felt embarassed. He was really cute about it. He asked if we could exchange emails. So we did. Anyway they went back to Ohio and we emailed each other a couple of times. I know it sounds weird but I kind of feel like I’m in love with him. I think that I am. I have not been able to stop thinking about him. I really wish that he lived closer. I didnt think that it was possible to fall in love in one night. But I know that I need to forget about him because it’s not healthy given the situation. I had slept with only black guys in New York and as good as that sex was it didnt feel the same as when I was with this guy. Im not sure if it has anything to do with race or not. I’ve never told anybody about this but it just feels good to express it somehow. I feel much better. It was the best night of my entire life and I dont regret it. I just wish I had spent more time with him that last day, but I didn’t because I felt a little weird around him. I dont want to tell him how I feel about him by email because I dont know how he feels about me. I dont want to scare the man. I would definitely go out with a white guy again because it seems like they are so chill and have no inhibitions. I just want to enjoy my life and experience interracial dating just to see what’s out there.
Actually, this whole entire blog has been very interesting to read.
As a young African-American female born in mid 1980’s decade. I do hope that people of my age group and forward will not put such a big emphasis on race period. Regardless if its interracial or what have you.
I just think its pretty damn sad that race has such an impact on what we do in our lives.
Now, being 22 Yrs of age. I have never dated anyone, but i was always taught people are people, and if you are going to judge someone, you do it base on their character, personalities, not on the basis of their skin.
Actually the entire discussion on interracial relationships just annoys me to no end. I happen to be interested in males of all backgrounds, whether they are black, white, latino, asian, etc, etc, etc. To me all when it comes to sex, attraction, love; men are all the same and women are all the same when it comes to pursuing a person who you find yourself attracted to.
I’m of the idea if he’s cute, and has similar interests as me, and friendly, and is equally attracted to me go for it! I’m not going to sit there and evaluate ZOMG! WTF 1337 REASONS WHY I SHOULD NOT BE WITH THIS PERSON BECAUSE HE IS WHITE!! Or sit there and think about what ‘society’ made think? or what my relatives or his for that matter say.
If I’m ever in a relationship or try to pursue a relationship with a man outside my race, and either of our families have a problem with it, I’m going to simply laugh and wave it off and go on with my life.
I don’t know how people of other nationalities in other countries view the whole ‘interracial tidbit’ but sometimes a subject on race in general just makes me ashame of calling myself an American citizen; because here it is in the year 2007 and people still cannot seem to get over the color of skin issue(doesn’t matter if your a bigot or not) and what’s worse these ignorant views get passed down through the generations. (But I’m hoping against hope that if you were born after 1980, especially a child born 1990 and beyond, will not be influenced with such ignorant views about society in general) I mean there are OTHER things more important than someone’s white friend sleeping with a black person, etc.
Its bad enough children of my generation/age group still are dealing with the ignorant views of the past; but it would be really nice to know that the next generation and the one after that will not have to deal with this shit anymore!
I wonder sometimes if civil rights leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr.’s advances to seeing a brighter future was just a waste of time? Or how about the many people who fought to end the oppession of slaves? Or had to endure the constant ridicule JUST to sit at the same table with someone that was of a different race?
its bad enough it took UNTIL about the 1960/70’s to make an effort to be able to sit in the same SCHOOLS without feeding into all the bullcrap about race and vomiting the shit out!
my motto is ‘live and let live’. If people are attracted to one another, it should not matter what race they are, if they are fat, skinny, have children, poor, smart, etc. If you love someone, you obviously love that person for a reason and vice versa. And for the LOVE OF GOD! (or whatever you believe in or lack there of) IT IS NO ONE’S BUSINESS WHO SOMEONE CHOOSES TO BE WITH!! I don’t care if what a relative or friend has to say! Why the hell should someone miss out on an opportunity to be in love with someone because ‘it is seen as a taboo in society’ because they are from two different backgrounds. Society does not dictate whom a person should fall in love with!
I agree whole-heartedly with the person who stated something about, people should get over themselves. Because ESPECIALLY IN AMERICA there is no such thing as ‘pure-blood and or race’. If you look in the history books, there was a lot of screwing going on (though for the most part done for the wrong reasons) within a race of different people.
ARGGGGGGGHHHH!! THIS IS WHY I HATE RACIAL DISCUSSIONS!!! Nothing makes me more mad to know that they are things people REFUSE to get over!! I mean there are a lot of factors to play in why people look down on ‘ww/bw’ or whatever relationships.
Mainly part of this is due to times of when africans were being enslaved. People during the era’s putting so much emphasis on race to justify the need of keeping a group of people in slavery, and if you were against it during the time and not one of the many who decided to outright speak against it you quietly turned a blind eye to it, or decided to not get involved at all.
But my god! People should learn about the past, and learn of a way to NOT repeat the BLUNDERS that have SERVERLY MIND FUCKED PEOPLE OVER!! not stay there stuck in a warp zone forever and getting all bent out of shape for things in history that happened MANY MANY MANY YEARS AGO!!
If whites were meant to be with whites and blacks were meant to be with blacks, DON’T YOU THINK THERE WOULD BE A GREAT SIGNAFICANCE IN OUR HOMO SAPIEN MAKE-UP? If this were to be the case, not only would we be two different skin colors but also of two different SPECIES ALTOGETHER!! Like Tigers and Cheetahs.
First and foremost, our primal instincts as animals is the survival of the species and therefore we mate! If it looks like a person, has a head like one, smells like one, speaks like one, walks like one, you can obviously mate with it! thus ensuring the continiuality of the species. And since a white man can makes babies with a black female and so on and so forth, then THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS JOINING TOGETHER OF TWO PEOPLE who either feel something for another, or just together for the simple reason to have sex!
And for the people who are uncomfortable, loathing, etc of seeing two people of two different backgrounds together need to get a fucking life! The world does not revolve around you and your pettiness, and people who have to disrupt the harmony of two people together because of race need to be ashame of themselves.
I really believe people like this are either 1. jealous, 2. insecure, 3. had a similar issue with which they did not delve into or tell anyone about because like cowards they listen to people who literally fucked up their love/sex life. 4. or they could be just really opiniated because of family influence, or 5. scared to go against family wishes.
If people have the time to stop and stare and think ‘ZOMG! OH NOES! THERE GOES A WM WITH A BW OR WM WITH A BM!! The world is ending!! Then they are very sad individuals and need to find ways to bid their time then thinking about the couple walking down the street, for all they know, the two could actually be related or just FRIENDS!!
I maybe just a rebel at times against certain issues i think just are taken to the extreme; race being one of them. But in all honesty, I love my family to death, and yet they get the hell on my nerves 24/7. But i do not wish any ill will on any of them; but if one of them tries to ever tell me i’m being an idiot for being with someone not black, I’ll simply look at them as if they were from another planet. No, I will not argue, just give them a face and be on my merry way. The same way I look at people, who get on my nerves while i’m at work and they have to complain about some small insignifcant thing! (especially in this family, seeing as some of my cousins are of mixed races, not to mention being the ‘oddball’ in the family I’m always teased that I’ll end up with an asian male…my interest in anime is responsible for that little tidbit, but doesn’t bother me at all).
I refuse to ‘self-hate’ myself (or rather i do not hate myself) because I am black and female, nor do i see myself as inferior to a white woman or any other woman of another race. Nor will i listen to people in my family telling me that old bullshit of ‘to each their own’. (and yes, i have had quite a few people like that tell me this and the suggestions just went in one ear and out the other with things like that) I don’t know where this whole ‘all black women are strong and too independant and have an attitude’ but maybe the whole impression of this is solely based on the fact that black women feel the need to be outspoken because our great, great-grandmothers didn’t have much of a choice. Or it could be the simple fact that society has formed such ‘opinions’ about us a whole that you cannot help but out right speak about it or against it.
But in my opinion, I do not see myself as some ‘black bitch with attitude’ nor am I very aggressive or a woman of loose morals.
Then again when is society ever fair to anyone? On matter what one does or in what context a person does it, there are going to be jackasses who feel the need to take something and make an example out of them, just ‘ignorantly’ justifying the actions and impressions of an entire group of people just for ONE thing ONE person does. It is a vicious cycle that needs to be severly stop, as it does nothing but aggravate us all and it is not fair to anyone.
I do not see white men as being superior to black men either, nor would i ever date one because he was more ‘finacially stable than a black man’. For the same reason i will never disown a black man, someone of my same race over a man of another race because if ‘ignorant racial profiling/stereotypes’ I see this as a waste of time. For all intents and purposes I could very well end up with a white man that was close to having jack shit because of the lack of money he has in the same way i could end up with a black man that was very well off. All in all when it comes to jobs/money/etc. I perfer to rely on my ownself to providing my own money and not be dependant on a man to take care of me. (this is solely a rant on the fact that people get the impression that generalizing the stereotype that ALL BLACK WOMEN WANT WHITE MEN FOR THEIR MONEY! I simply want to point on that I under no circumstances am looking for a man because he is well off) Actually, I’m not even looking for a boyfriend as college is my main objective…
And I have never heard of the reason ‘that the only reason a white man would pursue a black woman is to fulfill some ‘color fetish’…that one was certainly new to me. I always had the impression that maybe the reason why white men and black women haven’t gotten together as much was because of opinions regarded in society ‘couple on that with thoughts of not being good enough or worrying excessively about what the person may think…there could be more reasons.
my point is, if I’m going to be with someone, its because i truly love them, or find them interesting because of who they are, not because he isn’t the same race as me. If I should ever find happiness with a person of another race, that is my perrogative and no one else’s, after all I AM the one living with the person.
Jesus…I just went on a rant…sorry but i had to get my two cents in.
BTW: Like i said, I don’t know how people outside of the US deal or feel about interracial relationships, and I’m quite curious to know what their views are about it? I surely see alot of opinions about the States in general about politics, I would like actually like to hear someone’s opinions about it, who is from another country, perferrably from Europe as I’m quite familar with hearing opinions of people from Central/South America.
The stereotype of people such as Igor is that they are inbred, bigoted conspiracy nuts who have long discussions with Jesus while copulating with their nieces. I suppose this is partially true as well.
I know you mean the best, L, but I couldn’t help but notice that the standard by which your hypothetical white guy would be attracted to a black woman – personality, as in ‘tiger wildness’ – is also what stereotypically would draw them to a less attractive white woman. And not the ones with the soft, rich, creamy white beauty that melts in your mouth.
You have an underlying point that’s somewhat valid, Tuomas, but it’s not well argued for in this particular case. Why do young white college girls uninhibited through alcohol go after black men? For the same reason older, white employers uninhibited by AA legislation go after everyone but. The effects of the socialization of an artificial concept can themselves be very real.
I’m living in the caribbean and I’ve never truly looked at the interacial relationship as I do now. I remembered the first time I saw a local girl with a chinese male, then I heard they were married. I found it strange at first. Why? because it was not heard of where I’m from. Anyway later during the day when I thought of it and my attitude was, if he makes her happy then there shouldn’t be a problem. Many families may be concerned about they blk/wht daughter marrying into another race because they feel they have lost track somewhere in raising there children. They feel society will look down on them as parents. I have never thought about dating white males/ males outisde my race but I just do not come across them so often. Recently I posted a profile on a website for fun and then one day while on the site I was contacted by someone. We began speaking and instantly the connection was there. I did not know whether he was wht/blk. We spoke for the entire day/all day long. For the first time in my life I actually had a good conversation I truly enjoyed with a man. We spoke from one thing to the next. The next day I found out he is wht. But guess what I just couldn’t keep away it felt as if we were very old friends and we just can’t stop speaking to each other ever since. Can you imgine speaking to someone all day long without being bored. I live in the Caribbean he lives miles away from me but I do hope we can meet one day. I’m hoping for the best. Now I love my family and if anything more should become of our friendship which I hope it would my family’s opinion will not matter because at the end of the day it all boils down to you as an individual, who you are,and what you want out of life. So to those of you in interacial relationships stay strong keep your head up and be proud; and yes you are SPECIAL, because of two cultures combining you should be stronger than ever and for those who do not accept just say to them “STEP ASIDE BECAUSE YOU ARE FILLED WITH PRIDE.”
I am writing because I am a white man married to a black woman, this is my second relationship with a black woman the first was sixteen years and this relationship is going on thirteen years. The first lady would not get married but the woman I am with now, I have been married for all thiteen years. My wife and I live in Oregon and it is very racial here, and we did not know this when we moved here. My wife is having a hard time and it makes me sad. With this struggle she has to deal with and then being involved in a mixed relationship, I think she did not understand all areas dealing with this type of relationship. I would like to move but with my carear I can provide for her best in Oregon they love Electricians and pay us well, that is not so in other states. She can not seperate the mistreatment of one race and then put her sword down when she comes home, and it puts a strain on our relationship. My point is I think it takes a strong woman to deal with this type of relationship which is harder because usually it is black men/white woman, we are a low minority. My second point is beautiful black woman please don’t be scared when you hear what I am about to say but use it, please fully understand everything that is involved with this type of relationship and remember to love each other at all times, when you are stared at, mistreted and all the other things that go with your relationship. Remember prejudice knows no color the man and the woman share it equally. My point he also gets it to, hatred, mistreatment but remember you two have found something that many people are still lookin for true and everlasting love.
I am a black woman in relation with a white man.
Truth fully I was always atracted to white and latino men. However I thought white men did’nt like blacks. I don’t even really know HOW we came to date…both of us had the assumption that our race saw each other as unntractive.
He is the most beautiful man I have ever met. Crisp blue eyes, and redish-brown hair. He is open to so many ideas and is very nice. I met his family and He said his mother was sceptical and gave him the old “It wont work out” while his dad seemed more open. As a matter of fact his father invited me for a get together again, I don’t know if his mother will attend.
Suprisingly my family was really open. I saw the suprise but my dad and boyfriend seemed to enjoy certian things lke fishing and spots teams. We had the best dinner and my mother and father both enjoyed his company and even ask how he is doing.
I’m cannot predict the future, but like an earlier poster said, Our relation ship will work becuase WE WANT IT TOO. We have our moments but at the end of the day I love him and he loves me.
I am a white woman in a relationship with a black man. Right now his family has disowned him because i have come into his life. They think that im going to say that he tried to rape me and sue them and get him put in jail. This is totally uncalled for. Whenever his family talks about me the refer to me as that girl, her or wonderbread. I thought that my family would have a harder time accepting him but he has been over for every holiday for the past year and it has been enjoyable. I just don’t get why they have to be so racist towards my side of the family. i dont know if anyone is really gonna read this but i just need some help because i dont know what to do! thank you.
Wow, that’s a bit of a “sticky wicket” to be in, Boo Boo (Yogi fan?) Perhaps it would be useful to direct your question to Rachel @ Rachel’s Tavern. http://www.rachelstavern.com
She’s a sociologist who talks about racial issues, has studied black/white relationships (BM/WF & BW/WM), is the author of this post, and is in a BM/WF relationship where she’s had to address the dilemmas that racist relatives present.
I am white and my wife is Korean. My brother is white and his wife is from Guam.
We live in the northwest and we haven’t experienced much in the way of problems.
However, when it comes to family….my wife’s family was none too happy when she first started seeing me. They wanted her to hook up with a nice Korean guy.
I won out and now they fully accept our relationship and of course our daughters.
My mother never had issues but my father was definitely not happy with either my brother’s wife or mine. It wasn’t particularly overt but he would say little things that were really quite hurtful. He was racist to the core and interestingly enough, a very unhappy person all around. Very negative in what I suspect is really insecurity and fear.
Hence our family relationship was somewhat strained and uncomfortable. Not so with my wife’s family though. I feel closer to them than I do my own and I will bend over backwards for them.
Bottomline…who we choose to be with is our decision. If “they” (at whatever level… family, society, laws) have issues with it that is their loss. That they even waste their time to whine about it speaks volumes on them.
This is a very interestering blog site, I’ve been in an IR for 10+ years with the same black (nice dark brown) man and I’m an educated white woman. My family does not accept him, his family accepts me. Cleary the racism is on the white side of the line, or should I say the right side… where as the left side is the real human beings that God created us to be… get it right… human beings. It is those who feel threatened of anything different, or change that might come about… forget if it would improve our world, much less our lives to be accepted as such. I see the world changing, we’ve been changing in a very clear way now for the last 100 days, and it will take longer to get us out of the mess that we were put into by the the right hand of a person that thought he was above “the people”. The people spoke and now are trying to bring this country of separation together, and there will always be the uneducated to keep things the way they understand it, not necessarly a way the majority of educated people can live in peace with eachother.