Sharon emailed me about the story of Shaquanda Cotton and asked that I put it up. I have seen several other bloggers posting about her case (Here, Here, Here, Here). Here’s an excerpt from the Chicago Tribune that summarizes her case:
And then there is the case that most troubles Cherry and leaders of the Texas NAACP, involving a 14-year-old black freshman, Shaquanda Cotton, who shoved a hall monitor at Paris High School in a dispute over entering the building before the school day had officially begun.
The youth had no prior arrest record, and the hall monitor–a 58-year-old teacher’s aide–was not seriously injured. But Shaquanda was tried in March 2006 in the town’s juvenile court, convicted of “assault on a public servant” and sentenced by Lamar County Judge Chuck Superville to prison for up to 7 years, until she turns 21.
Just three months earlier, Superville sentenced a 14-year-old white girl, convicted of arson for burning down her family’s house, to probation.
“All Shaquanda did was grab somebody and she will be in jail for 5 or 6 years?” said Gary Bledsoe, an Austin attorney who is president of the state NAACP branch. “It’s like they are sending a signal to black folks in Paris that you stay in your place in this community, in the shadows, intimidated.”
Personally, I think pushing a hall monitor is a serious offense, but not an offense that could lead to up to 7 years in juvenile prison. Maybe something like a suspension even being sent to alternative school, but not 7 years in jail, especially when the teenager in question doesn’t have a prior criminal record.
However, when I read about the case further, I even began to question those more conventional punishments. Here is why:
In the past five years, black parents have filed at least a dozen discrimination complaints against the school district with the federal Education Department, asserting that their children, who constitute 40 percent of the district’s nearly 4,000 students, were singled out for excessive discipline.
In this particular case her mother believes that Shaquanda was targeted by school officials after the mother protested the school’s practices. When I read about the number of discrimination complaints leveled at the schools, I was shocked. It takes quite a bit of time and energy to file a complaint like this, which sets off red flags related to the schools practices. The US Department of Education has been investigating the school:
But the federal investigations of the school district are not so clear-cut, and they are not finished. In one 2004 finding, Education Department officials determined that black students at a Paris middle school were being written up for disciplinary infractions more than twice as often as white students–and eight times as often in one category, “class disruption.”
The Education Department asked the U.S. Justice Department to try to mediate disputes between black parents and the district, but school officials pulled out of the process last December before it was concluded.
And in April 2006, the Education Department notified Paris school officials that it was opening a new, comprehensive review to determine “whether the district discriminated against African-American students on the basis of race” between 2004 and 2006. Federal officials say that investigation is still in progress.
If you want more information about this case or would like to find contacts for the case, you can link to Sharon’s site. She has a comprehensive list of links.
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“Class disruption,” eh? I wish there were even a slight chance that the school administration recognized the twisted humor in that :(
I’m still sorting through the various links. Holy shit!
Do you happen to have the link to her court cases etc? This has to be getting appealed–surely she didn’t lose on appeal? I’d like to read her cases.
This case seems absurd if the description of it is accurate. For every case like this there seems to be an equally ridiculous case in which the perpetrators get off easily. Example:
house arrest for the severe beating of three women in the Long Beach case.
Personally I am for severe punishment when it comes to crimes of violence regardless of the race of the individuals involved. But there needs to be consistency in how punishment is handed out.
Hey, I was just writing a post about this case. Now I can be lazy and do a baby blogging instead!
Sailerman, they are apparently appealing the conviction, since the judge and the DA both say that they can’t comment on a case that’s being appealed.
Michael, I wrote a post about the Long Beach case here, which you can use to discuss that case if you want, but long story short: I don’t think it’s a completely comparable situation, because in Long Beach there seems to be real doubt about if all the convicted kids were actually guilty of the crime. Given that, it’s hard for me to be mad about the light sentencing.
In this case, there’s a little doubt, because she claims that the hall monitor shoved her first, and she was just shoving back. But even if that’s not true — even if what happened was a totally unprovoked shove — seven years is far too steep.
Michael, I don’t think anyone is arguing that shoving the hall monitor – or anyone else – is perfectly OK. The problem here is differential (by race) punishment.
Hey Amp,
Feel free to edit in your part. We can have a joint post. :)
Wow.
Seriously, fuck this judge. This is absolutely insane.
You know, I lump this in to the same bullshit category of ‘zero tolerance’ policies. “We have zero tolerance for violence” translates to “we prosecute a push as assault.”
I feel like maybe there was a time when we used to be more sane, when folks would look at this and say “okay, maybe she deserves punishment, but she doesn’t really deserve jail” but I’ll be damned if I can even remember when that was.
The problem is, at least from where I’m sitting, I don’t think the only problem is the differential punishment. If they prosecuted the white students to this level, sure it would be better in one way . . . it would be more equal. On the other hand, I think that kind of prosecution is an essentially insane and vicious thing to do, and I don’t think being equally insane and vicious solves the problem.
Let’s be equal, sure . . . but let’s be equally sane and reasonable to everyone, not equally cruel.
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I am outraged by this case, which says more than one thing about those involved. The fact that black students are disciplined more often than white students illustrates that “turning a blind eye” to misbehaving white students is common practice. Punishing a fourteen-year-old girl more severely than a white girl, and for a less devastating crime, is ridiculous. Six or seven years is far too long for any child to serve in juvenile hall, yet alone one who has no prior criminal record. This sort of discrimination isn’t teaching children good values when they see a classmate punished on several occassions for “class disruption” when others who disrupt class are “overlooked.” That poor girl…
This may be considered thread drift but it’s related to the topic at hand, I promise — have you heard about the 7-year-old on a dirt bike who was arrested and cuffed?
Gerard, as you may or may not have guessed, is Black.
It’s insanity!
SHAQUANDA MAY BE SET FREE SOON!!!!!!! See my latest post.
Up to 7 years for a 14 year old girl because of shoving a hall monitor is absurd.
I do not think however this strange conviction has anything to do with the race of this student, nor with her gender, nor with the gender and age of the hall monitor, nor with the activity of her mother…
The most important point, which makes the difference in US-courts is money.
If she had money, this girl would be – from beginning on – aggressively defended with the help of experienced lawyers and experts and she would never been even a single day in jail.
Am I wrong?
Another question is, how this could end in court…in case for arson? Yes, this is clearly a case for a court, but not for bad behaviour of a girl shoving a hall monitor.
Lock the child in a room, call the parents and ask them to come to school and to discipline their child…Why do you need a court for that at all?
Is this principal, who should co-operate with those parents unable to deal with bad behaviour of a 14 year old student?
I’m sorry, yohan, but I do think you’re wrong, and it isn’t a case of merely money. I’m sure that there are similar events involving students all the time that never even make it past being separated and maybe being told off by the nearest adult in the school.
The fact that such a trivial matter made it to court at all smells suspicious to me. I think who this girl’s mother had a lot to do with this, and her race was what allowed such an outrageous sentence to stick.
How do you separate the issue of money from the issues of race and gender in the US?
Ampersand said:
Michael, I wrote a post about the Long Beach case here, which you can use to discuss that case if you want, but long story short: I don’t think it’s a completely comparable situation, because in Long Beach there seems to be real doubt about if all the convicted kids were actually guilty of the crime. Given that, it’s hard for me to be mad about the light sentencing.
In this case, there’s a little doubt, because she claims that the hall monitor shoved her first, and she was just shoving back.
No case is exactly the same and rarely comparable. There always is a doubt when all the evidence is not in. Read back to the Duke rape hoax and you will see many examples where commentaries assumed certain things as a given. One example had Rachel assuming the accuser haven been viciously beaten and strangled as fact. It turns out that this and many other things in the case were wrong. The same may be true concerning the 14 year old in this case. I prefer to see more evidence before I jump to a conclusion.
As for the Long beach case, the perpetrators were found GUILTY of a viscous hate crime and beating. The sentence did not fit the crime. You can find examples like this irrespective of the races of the individuals involved.
I must say that I am not aware of how things are done in Texas. From what I understand of the juvenile courts here, the sentence is based on conduct. Although a child could be held till 21 , this rarely happens.
I did find something else disturbing. The story stated that the child shoved the hall monitor out of the way to go get her medication for ADD. Why is the school administering medication to the child? This would not be happening to one of my kids I assure you .
a viscous hate crime
They poured boiling molasses on somebody?
Well, that was easy . I found the answer to one of my questions .
By Phillip Hamilton
The Paris News
Published March 25, 2007
Shaquanda Cotton was NOT sentenced to seven years in prison.
The 14-year-old, who was convicted of assaulting a public servant for shoving a 58-year-old teacher’s aide, was sentenced to a state juvenile correction facility “for an indeterminate period not to exceed her 21st birthday.” Whether she spends seven years in the dormitory-style facility she was assigned to depends on one person — Shaquanda.
So she was not sentenced to 7 years on prison just as I suspected . The spin on this case is simply not correct .
Here is another so called fact that may not be true .From the Chicago
article :
The youth had no prior arrest record, and the hall monitor–a 58-year-old teacher’s aide–was not seriously injured
Says who ? As a matter of fact the mother of the girl said this :
The defense position has always been that a school employee shoved the girl first. Cherry and Creola Cotton say the teacher’s aide faked injures so charges could be trumped up against the 14-year-old.
I could go back and paste commments from people here who tend to assume the victim of an attack is telling the truth . But here we are asked to believe the adult was lying and shoved the student first .
Wow . If you look closer you will see that the 14 year old was far from a model student .Also , Black teachers and administrators testified against Cotton at trial .
I didn’t get that balance from the article .It seems the race card was played by the defence as a last resort . Also , the judge may have felt the only way to help the kid was to put her in a facility where the mother would not be able to excuse her bad behavior .
This from an article you did not get to read :
In his effort to create the image of an white-hooded community, the Tribune’s fiction writer fails to mention black teachers and administrators testified against Cotton at trial. Nor does he acknowledge the fact she received a stiff sentence because she was habitually in trouble at school.
Amazing how from the first story things become when you dig a little bit.
http://theparisnews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=7ac9ecbb65bfd1d1
You might have to sign up to read the full article but it is free.
I wish we could have a transcript of the trial to see the entire picture. But it seems that there were plenty of Black folks who were involved in the process. in no way was it a racist hit job as was described.
read what one black citizen had to say on the matter .
I’ve lived here all my life, and I don’t see that,” said Mary Ann Reed Fisher, one of two black members of the Paris City Council. “My kids went to Paris High School, and they never had one minute of a problem with the school system, the courts or the police.”
Sorry Robert. I hit the spell check and didn’t preview. My spelling may be poor but my ability to see detect fraud is dead on.
Whether she spends seven years in the dormitory-style facility she was assigned to depends on one person — Shaquanda.
First, Michael, it’s a prison for juveniles; it’s not a “dormitory-style facility”. Why the obfuscating language? She’s going to jail, not a college dorm. It’s also false that her sentence depends solely on her; whether she is eligible for release depends on the juvenile court’s discretion.
I don’t understand why you’re so eager to pretend this is a ‘racist hit job’.
First off mythago I didn’t say that. Philip Hamilton wrote that remark. I had questioned the claim of a 7 year sentence as this is not how things are done where I am. The kid was sent to a juvenile detention center for her violent assault. When she gets out depends on her own behavior. Of course it is up to the juvenile courts discretion. They are the ones observing her behavior. If you don’t like the juvenile justice system advocate for change. If anything I think it tends to be too lenient. But she was placed there based on her actions .
Why make this a white and black thing? Lets start out by saying the PISD has rules and regulations like any other school that must. Her mother wants to make this a race issue. Wants to stir up things. Other white students have done the same thing, got the same justice, but her mother doesn’t want to admit that. If Shaquanda now does not want to admit she is wrong to get out of TYC then what should that tell anyone with common sense. I live in Paris and have gone to each one of the demonstrations. I see so few Paris people there only people from Dallas. I saw the high school demonstration and only four students walked out in support of Shaquanda. I listened to the first group that came in the New Black Panthers and all the vulgarity that came out. As a mother myself I expect my son not to be a disruptive student and to obey every rule. I would stand behind the school district and the courts if my son ever acted in this same manner. Paris people are good people. The people that they are talking about are good people just doing their job. Shaquanda you are now only doing the first thing that is right. Serve your time, act right and admit what you did and then you get out of TYC. If your family is so upset move from Paris, go where you will be happy. Since you believe everything you do is right and everything that has gone on in this community why do you stay here? All this mess that you and your mother are bringing into Paris hurts people not involved with such a messy situation. Paris has always been peaceful, but thanks one family it is disrupting people who should not be disrupted. Many students are scared of these people you and your family are stirring up. Is it the Christian way to do this? Where are the Paris people that support all this? All I hear is your mother and Ms. Cherry who want to deface other people. I don;t know any of you so I am being honest.
First off mythago I didn’t say that. Philip Hamilton wrote that remark.
Michael, you posted his article by saying you “found the answer” to one of your questions. Now you’re saying, gosh, I reposted what this guy said but I don’t stand by it myself?
Is it the Christian way to do this? Are you serious Bridget? Selective amnesia must be the foundation of the comments. So, perhaps a memory refresh is in order. In the not so distant past, African Americans were lynched in this country in the name of Christianity. In southern states dogs and water hoses were turned on African Americans in the name of that same religion. None of which adhere remotely to any Christian baseline fundamental requirements and/or teachings. Therefore, I think we are better served to leave that concept out of this discussion as a measuring tool. Equally, to suggest that someone relocate because they disagree, perception or realization, with inequality is just uninformed rhetoric. Now to the more reasonable topics of this discussion, obviously there are major details missing from this case. However, under no circumstances should punishment be disproportionate to this extent. We can blog the merits of this case persistently; however, the one incontestable fact… arson and an assault are their crimes. The results of these crimes were irrefutable property damage as a result of arson and minor (if any) bodily injury as a result of the assault. The mere notion that an arsonist’s rehabilitation is to send her home with what amounts to “don’t do it again” and the rehabilitation for a misdemeanor assault is incarceration from seven years is an absurd position to argue such an imprudent notion. Other comments suggest the incarceration to the facility is seven years at summer camp… simply imprudent. Furthermore, the same Judge…you can’t be serious. Supposing I would eradicate the racial overture from the equation, what does that leave? Oh, the judge was having a bad day? I don’t think so folks.
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For the love of God. There’s no reason she should’ve gone to jail AT ALL. She had NO prior record. The hall monitor -was not injured.- At most, as Rachel says, maybe a suspension from the school. What the hell are you thinking, Michael? How is this justified? At all?
She’s already been there a year. That is way too much already, fuck the technicalities.
oh, by the way, her father just died. Her mother waited to tell her in person. She apparently took it hard. Surprise.
And Bridget: is it “Christian” to target the poor and vulnerable while defending the powerful? No, no I wouldn’t say that it is.
as for “why don’t they go somewhere else:” so, 1) that is a tacit admission that the place is totally fucked and “THOSE people aren’t wanted here,” you do realize
2) i don’t think SC is going anywhere real soon; that’s kind of, you know, the whole point?
What is this blind deference to authority crap? Gee, she MUST have done something -really bad,- let’s figure out a way to justify it somehow, SOMEHOW. It’s just too scary to contemplate that someone upholding law n order could be THAT…evil. let’s figure out a way to blame it on the kid. The mother. The (now dead) father. SOMEONE. ANYONE but the system, and the judge who handed down that draconian sentence.
gross.
Bridget, you managed to make exactly the opposite point you wanted to.
I dnt care if she slapped an elderly white lady in a wheel chair r u serious I got sentenced to 4yrs for burglary 7yrs ago when I was young an dumb but I was still 18 so I deserved it an I also had probation first I think all white people are racist in a way… because how could u even began 2 try an say that I believe in harsh punishment for violence… white people get drunk in bars every hr of the day an have a fist fight an if ne action is taken its prob. Jail 4 a day.. This is a little girl in high school a freshmen who just came from 8th grade which in who knows what really happened in a small town like that maybe was called a nigger or somethin I’m not tryna say that’s what happened but we’ll never know what we do know is that the penetentiary is not for a 14yr old female who got mad an disrespected her elders not her fuckin master
I wonder, if a white male student had pushed Shaquanda, would the same “zero tolerance” policy have been applied?
Think about it Bridget – is seven years in prison a justified sentence for what is at worst, an Assault 4?
You also bring up the “outside agitator” menace, a shining example of Southern bigotry since the days of Martin Luther King and the Freedom Riders – that the black folk are nice and know their place – until these “outside agitators” start making them all uppity…
And Paris has not been peaceful – it looks like it has a bigoted judge who sentenced the white girl to probation for arson, a crime which has much more potential for damage than simple assault.
Shaquanda Cotton should have been suspended for a significant period of time, but given only a misdemeanor punishment, if anything at all. Methinks Bridget and the other “good Christians” are happy to see an uppity black girl go to jail…
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-070330paris-release,1,1626072.story?coll=chi-news-hed%20
As of this morning Shaquanda Cotton is FREE!!!
this girl was not sentenced to 7 years. she would have been out much earlier, but she had several discipline problems during the course of her incarceration. outsiders should check their facts before intruding upon a whole town and forcing their views on others. there is no way to defend when people blame others for their lot in life. “my life is bad, and it’s your fault,” is what has happened. people can say whatever they want. if you aren’t from the place, you have no idea what has really happened. so many of the facts have been altered it is impossible for this town to get a fair shake. these people were offered probation, but CHOSE a trial. the jury was of mixed races, and they found her guilty. she was sentenced to less than one year. the school district did not arrest her, nor did they convict her or put her in TYC. everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but people should check before they slam a whole school and town for something they know nothing about.
In other words: “Our negroes are HAPPY! You don’t have any business getting them all riled up.”
Hmmm I think I’ll take Jay and Bridget’s advice and look at the FACTS. How about this little tidbit in the Chicago Tribune: Her sentence, which ultimately was up to the discretion of prison officials, had twice been extended, first because she would not admit her guilt as required by prison regulations and then because she was found with “contraband” in her cell — an extra pair of socks.
Oh I can see she was a hellraiser in prison, extra socks is like a felony in Paris, TX.
And how about that uncooperative mother?
“Let her out of TYC,” said Allan Hubbard, spokesman for Lamar County District Atty. Gary Young. “Hell, she’s done a year for pushing a teacher. That’s too long.”
Hubbard also backed away from claims he and Young made this week in numerous media interviews that the judge in the case, Lamar County Judge Chuck Superville, had had no choice but to send the youth to prison because her mother had testified that she would not cooperate with probation officials had the judge sentenced the teen to probation.
On Thursday, Young’s official Web site contained this assertion: “This juvenile’s mother (Creola Cotton) told the judge she would not comply with conditions of probation.”
But a review of the full court transcript shows no such testimony. In fact, Creola Cotton repeatedly answered “yes” when asked in court whether she would comply with any conditions of probation that the judge might impose.
On Friday morning, after an inquiry about this discrepancy by the Tribune, the district attorney’s Web site was altered to read: “Through her actions of non-cooperation, Ms. Cotton told the judge she would not comply with conditions of probation.”
Oh and we should all be aware of just how disruptive she was at school: Among the write-ups Shaquanda received, according to Reynerson, were citations for wearing a skirt that was an inch too short, pouring too much paint into a cup during an art class and defacing a desk that school officials later conceded bore no signs of damage.
Shaquanda’s mother, Creola Cotton, does not dispute that her daughter can behave impulsively and was sometimes guilty of tardiness or speaking out of turn at school–behaviors that she said were manifestations of Shaquanda’s attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, for which the teen was taking prescription medication.
Good God! Too much paint! She should have gotten a life sentence for that alone!
Sounds to me like the school had it out for Creola Cotton and got to her through her daughter, harrassing her and writing her up for every damned little thing they could think up. Sounds to me like Paris is a racist town that doesn’t like the blacks getting too uppity, even if it means railroading a learning disabled kid to teach blacks to know their place.
What part of “sending a girl with no prior record for -pushing- someone to jail is fucked up” do you not understand? And no, assuming your town belongs to planet Earth, I really don’t think we need to be there to see -just how *special* it is.-
anyway, she’s been released now. pity it wasn’t in time to see her father one last time or at least go to his funeral.
oh yeah, and the “discipline” problems involved, i believe, having “contraband” of an extra pair of socks in her room. the horror.
god, what is WRONG with some people?
Kristin and Donna slipped ahead
like i said, if you don’t live there…
thank you for the ultimate blogging experience, along with all the insults. i appreciate this site!
Here’s the deal, Jay.
“If you don’t live there,” is a bullshit standard in that it implies that we can’t criticize cultures or communities we’re not part of.
I believe that there are objective standards of humanity, and criticizing communities and cultures that fall outside those standards is acceptable.
This holds true whether the communities and cultures are ones that you’re a member of or not. This would include criticizing communities and cultures that engage in slavery, female genital mutilation, or apartheid for example. It also includes criticizing a culture that condones sending a teenage girl to jail for pushing someone.
You’ve seen a lot of strong reactions to your claim because your claim has been so often used in the past as a way of shutting down all criticism. As in, “you’re not from Georgia circa 1830, how dare you say that slavery is inhuman?”
If you have a coherent argument as to why these sorts of criticisms should be off the table, I’d love to hear it, but I don’t honestly believe that one exists.
—Myca
but she had several discipline problems during the course of her incarceration
Like an extra, unauthorized pair of socks in her cell. Indeed, we must crack down on this sort of dangerous behavior by inmates.
the jury was of mixed races, and they found her guilty
Jury? This was a juvenile proceeding.
Word. I’ve seen enough examples of these attitudes and behaviors in my neck of the woods. One of the investigations done by the D.O.J.’s civil rights division as well as the Department of Education was why a high school was conducting racially segregated graduation ceremonies for its seniors. That was before the principal called the police in to pepperspray Black students while the White students in the same fight were simply told to go to their classrooms. They denied the allegations and said nothing liked that happened, but some kid was videotaping what he called a fight between the “rednecks and the n—–s” and you know what they say about a picture being worth so many words.
My favorite comment was about the “dormitory style” juvenile facility. Have you ever toured or visited a youth prison center? Or even juvenile hall? I have, and I went to a school with dormitories and there’s a huge difference between the two.
And I’m also confused about this trial by jury system mentioned here. As far as I know in many states, juveniles aren’t tried by juries but by judges.
Oh, and I have a local story about the Black city council member whose kids never had any problems with racism. Right after he said that, his sons came up to him and said, well, dad I have something to tell you…
last time…
there WAS a jury trial. the girl was offered probation and chose a trial. and there was more than an extra pair of socks(contraband) at the facility where she was housed. all the things we read on the internet are not all true. many statements were skewed. there are always more than two sides to every story, and somewhere in there is the truth. there is racisim everywhere on both sides. the blanket condemnation of a town is wrong, and no matter what a person believes, throwing insults and curse words around only makes things worse. people jump on a bandwagon and spew hate based on something they know very little about. this makes me sad for the future. the issues here are not uncommon i know, but the whole town is not to blame.
besides, i have learned that there are very few open minds and hearts. it’s really too bad.
mythago Writes:
March 28th, 2007 at 10:43 am
First off mythago I didn’t say that. Philip Hamilton wrote that remark.
Michael, you posted his article by saying you “found the answer” to one of your questions. Now you’re saying, gosh, I reposted what this guy said but I don’t stand by it myself?
No. I stated I found an answer to one of the questions I had concerning this matter. As I suspected, this was not a seven year sentence. But I am repeating myself. You would know that if you had actually read my post.
As for Cotton, I am happy to see she was released. I hope she can change her behavior so as to avoid future trouble. Based on what I have read, I don’t see much promise of that happening.
Michael:
I read that story, and you know what? As far as I can tell, although some people have been desperately spinning the story, she was sentenced to seven years.
In ordinary American English usage, when we say “the judge sentenced her to twenty years in prison,” we don’t mean that the convicted person will unerringly serve twenty years. We mean that the maximum sentence, if no new charges are added, will be twenty years. In many or most cases, it is possible for the person to be paroled or released before the full twenty years are served.
She was sentenced to seven years in juvi prison. Unless someone decided to let her out early, she would have been in prison for seven years. That’s what the phrase means. For you to claim otherwise shows that you don’t understand ordinary English usage in the US. (Of course, for all I know you’re not from the US).
Do you really believe this nonsense? Do you think that Ms. Cotton could have decided to walk out at any time, and no one would have stopped her? Of course not . Her ability to leave is contingent partly on her own behavior, in the sense that prisoners can act badly and thus make it unlikely they will receive probation. (There’s no real evidence Cotton did act badly, of course.).
But it’s mainly dependent on what decisions authorities who have the power to authorize her release make. It’s impossible to have any knowledge at all of the prison system and not know that.
Yes, Jay, that’s precisely what this whole story teaches us. It teaches us that everyone would be just fine with the 7-year jail sentence for a child if only our minds and hearts were more open.
I’ve actually been working on opening my mind and heart lately, but the imprisonment of children still makes me uncomfortable.
I guess I still have a ways to go.
there WAS a jury trial. the girl was offered probation and chose a trial.
“Trial” doesn’t mean the same thing as “jury trial”. Much less your guess at the composition of the jury.
Jay, to summarize your post, everybody is being mean and blaming the whole town of Paris; therefore the girl is guilty and deserves to spend seven years in juvenile prison. Did I miss anything?
>Did I miss anything?>
We’re too judgmental. You know, unlike the judge in question, or the people fapping all over how awful the Cottons are and clearly deserved what they got.
Seriously, dude.
God, as awful as this situation is (and it’s really, really, really awful), when I read your comment, I just burst out laughing.
“Right. We’re the dicks. We need to open our minds and hearts. Totally.”
Ampersand,
I think that the differences between the adult justice system and the juvenile “justice” system make the analogy in #48 somewhat inaccurate.
Juvenile justice sentences are usually (in my limited experience) “until x is accomplished, not to exceed Y” sentences–and Y is almost always “reaches the age of 18 (or 21)”; unlike the adult system, though, the norm is that X is much much less than Y. It is more like contempt of court charges (you’ll stay in jail until you agree to provide your records) than like ordinary criminal charges.
I have no actual information on this case. I will just say that in my observation, physical attacks by students on teachers and school personnel are quite seriously problematic, even when the specific attack is fairly mild.
Sam C . said, “I will just say that in my observation, physical attacks by students on teachers and school personnel are quite seriously problematic, even when the specific attack is fairly mild.”
I don’t think anyone here is disagreeing with that. The problem is the particular punishment meted out and the subsequent pattern of discrimination complaints leveled against the school system.
Ampersand Writes:
April 2nd, 2007 at 2:15 am
Michael:
I read that story, and you know what? As far as I can tell, although some people have been desperately spinning the story, she was sentenced to seven years.
In ordinary American English usage, when we say “the judge sentenced her to twenty years in prison,” we don’t mean that the convicted person will unerringly serve twenty years. We mean that the maximum sentence, if no new charges are added, will be twenty years. In many or most cases, it is possible for the person to be paroled or released before the full twenty years are served.
From the Chicago article :
Cotton, who is 15, had no prior criminal record when she was incarcerated a year ago under an INDETERMINATE SENTENCE that could have lasted until her 21st birthday.
From law.com :
indeterminate sentence
n. the prison term imposed after conviction for a crime which does not state a specific period of time or release date, but just a range of time, such as “five-to-ten years.” It is one side of a continuing debate as to whether it is better to make sentences absolute (subject to reduction for good behavior) without reference to potential rehabilitation, modification or review in the future.
Again from the Chicago tribune :
Those sentence extensions drew the attention of Kimbrough, who was confirmed by the state Senate on Thursday as conservator of the youth prison system, which has been rocked by a sex scandal over allegations that guards and administrators coerced inmates for sex
She was in for one year AFTER two extentions .
Juvenile courts handle sentencing in far more lax ways than do adult courts. She did not get a seven year sentence or a 6 month to 7 year sentence. It is an important DISTINCTION in how the sentencing guidelines work. She could have been out after only a few months.This would not have been the case had she been tried in an adult court .It is also far from the typical parole eligability for a 7 year
determinate sentence .
Michael you just won’t let this go will you?
I guess there’s some unhappy f0lks here that she didn’t get seven years.
Back to the arson case, she got probation, because she had family to take care of her. Well, didn’t she have family to take care of her before she torched the house? That’s the argument that’s often used to justify not giving Black defendants in similar situations probation.
As far as problematic behaviors go, arson’s up there in terms of being a serious red flag for future problems. I don’t think probation is going to fix them.
Oh, and “she” on the arson case means the White teenaged girl. But given that the juvenile system is supposed to be rehabilitative not punitive, how does putting a teenager who commits arson on probation even rehabilitative?
yep, that about sums it all up… i am so glad to interact with people who are polite, and open minded. i don’t think i ever referred to anyone specifically, and i don’t remember calling anyone bad names, but hey, if the shoe fits…
I don’t think people should be rude, Jay, but I also think that refusing to address substantive criticisms of your positions is rude in another sense . . . it indicates a disinclination to argue in good faith.
Once you’ve demonstrated that disinclination, the rudeness of others is hardly the issue, is it?
If you’d like to have a conversation, start offering responses to the criticisms I and others have offered.
If, as I believe, you’re unable to do so, perhaps you should admit it and stop resorting to the ‘but you’re all so rude‘ excuse.
—Myca
i have responded generally to what has been said. all i asked is that people dig for the truth, instead of believing everything they read on the internet. it isn’t always true. i have responded to the trial part, which did happen. truthfully, i am glad she is out. i hope she moves on with her life and is successful. paris is not all racist, particularly the school system. they did not arrest her. they did not choose a trial for her. they did not put her in TYC. that was the system of law. and i know for a fact, that the shoving was just a small part of the problem. and i do believe racism exists on every side of this issue, but not eveyone feels that way. and yes i do mention the name calling and insults and curse words because i am not, nor have i attacked anyone else. so my opinion makes people laugh, or disgusted or somehow i am seen as a racist. i am just looking for cooler heads that are willing to look into someone else’s life just a little. does anyone think i know the first thing about someones life because i read it in newspaper or on the internet? of course not. i would not pretend to know all about anyone from what others say. i guess one can speculate based on what one chooses to believe. merely living on the planet earth does not make anyone a genius about life in this town, nor any other. just because one exists doesn’t make them the expert on paris, tx. or the people there.
This a case of 1- court system having no limitation on punishment;
2- parents who want prove their case but do not have enough knowledge of legal system of lea bargaining because parents mostly know parenting ; this has nothing to do with blaming the mother ;
3- Judges who do not know anything about where to get help or control the outcome;
It is noT about:Everyone does realize that the sentence given to Cotton was NOT seven years. It was a indeterminate sentence which means it could carry up to seven years depending on her behavior.
IT HAS TO WITH NOT LETTING THE FAMILY (THE MOTHER) HAS HER ‘SAY’ THAN GETTING THE BLAME.
WHEN A MOTHER IS SENT TO COURT FOR A CHILD , AND WANTING A TRIAL , IS BECAUSE SHE HAS SOMETHING TO TELL THE COURT BUT NOT ALLOWED
SINCE AN ATTORNEY DOING ALL THE TALK.
:headdesk:
Dude, it’s really simple. We care more about the fate of a fourteen year old girl abused by the system and thrown in jail than about whether people are insulted because we talked meen about their hometown. These things are not equivalent, here on Earth. They’re just not.
I can not believe that in this day and age we still have to overcome this kind of adversity. With all the things that we as a people need to be worried about, this kind of thing should never have taken place. All parties in this are wrong and it is time for them to man up so to speak and apologize for wrongful imprisonment and false charges. I also predict this going all the way to the supreme court. Racial discrimination should not be tolerated at all from any one any where.
Jay. Unless you were at the trial, you too are on the list of those believing what they read. I know you were not at the trial because if you were, you would not claim probation was offered. That is a lie made up by Alan Hubbard and Gary Young to justify their insanity after they were exposed. The school did place the child in TYC. For them to claim they had nothing to do with it is outrageous.The school called the police officer to do the arrest, the same officer who teaches at the school. The school told the hall monitor to go to the hospital. All of the witnesses against the girl were teachers and principals at the school. The teachers high fived each other and laughed and hugged when the girl was given the sentence. The girl is the one who was injured. Racism is not a two way street in Paris. Name one incident in which black people oppressed whites. Just ONE. There are no blacks in Paris wo have positions of power to inflict racism. Those all belong to the whites in Paris. People need to stop making excuses for evil racist behavior.
no one knows where i was at the time, and unless one lives there and sees what is really going on, one will continue to believe whatever they wish. go there and find out. the words written above are just as racist as the town is believed to be. i defend nothing but looking beyond what is put out there. people should keep their eyes open. some might be surprised at what will unfold……..
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Michael – I am so glad after skimming these comments that someone took the time to explain an indeterminate sentence. In a layman’s mind not many people recognize the distinction. While I agree that children are being punished more on a punitive level than a rehabilitative level in recent years, it is essential recognize that it is the public that is demanding this trend. I do believe that schools should be more involved in doling out punishments rather than passing off problems to the authorities. Children are children and should be treated as such. However, a large part of the problem is that parental supervision and assistance is on a rapid decline when attempting to discipline children. I did not see anyone mention the fact that Ms. Cotton’s mother refused to assist the authorities with other types of measures besides incarceration to help alleviate her behavioral issues. Parents need to quit passing off the responsibility of raising their children. So basically, the way I understand it, her mother didn’t want to help her daughter she just wanted to bitch about how the state decided to handle it. In this specific case the race card was able to be played because Shaquanda was black. I believe that by doing this it promotes racism rather than deters it. If the sentence is unfair its unfair for everyone. It is extremely difficult to compare one case to another just by offense and race. That is why the crminal justice system is inherently based on discretion. Mitigating circumstances are a huge factor in the disposition of cases.
As far as the white girl who was given probation for arson I know nothing about that case. Juvenile cases generally are confidential to deter labeling of children. I’ll tell you this, Shaquanda will not ever be able to reside in Paris and not be labeled now that this was all brought out in the open by her mother. Maybe there was some racism taking place in the sentencing of Shaquanda, and at face value it certainly looks that way. However, no one but those directly involved can claim to know the particulars of Shaquanda’s case. The only thing the public is aware of is what her mother chose to be released to the press. Now that she has been released,I certainly hope that Shaquanda takes this opportunity to show the “system” that their assessment of her was incorrect.
However, a large part of the problem is that parental supervision and assistance is on a rapid decline when attempting to discipline children.
I won’t address this in the context of this specific case. But in the general case, it seems to me that parents these days in many cases actively oppose disciplining their children. That’s one reason why my wife got out of teaching. And the more money the parents have, the worse it seems to be; their little darlings can’t do anything wrong, the school/coach/authority figure has it out for their kid, and they’ll spend huge amounts of time and money to defend their kid’s “self-esteem” rather than admit that the kid is less than perfect.
To Jay Shell:
So are you saying that it is not a fact that accusations were brought against Ms. Cotton that she, unprovoked, pushed a hall monitor resulting in no injury; that Ms. Cotton had no prior record of violent crime; and that in conclusion the court system found her guilty and found it appropiate to jail her for over 3 months?
If you agree the above that was found in various easily accessible articles are sound facts about Ms. Cotton’s incident my next question is this; did the city of Paris or the school Ms. Cotton attended or any official on behalf of the school, or even the hall monitor that was involved take any action in attempt to keep Ms. Cotton out of jail? If the answer is no…that city and it’s community of citizens have a problem of social sickness…probably ranging from anywhere from Racial Prejudice, or Apathy, or Lack of Wisdom and Justice…yes these are sicknesses.
The next question is what is this community going to do about ensuring this never happens again in their district? What are they going to demand from their elected officials and law makers in regard to this matter? Will they demand a review and investigation into the ruling records of this particular judge in order to set a precedent going forward? What are they doing to strengthen the integrity of the judicial practices in their city? Nothing? For a 14 year old child to go to jail for something like shoving is just plain old nonsense…and reflects a lack of sensibility and understanding of Justice and the purpose of Punishment.
The DA Gary Young and DA spokesperson Allan Hubbard lied. That is a proven fact. That means the entire case is false. If a person is sent to prison, it should be based on facts. If a DA needs to lie, he has committed an offense and should be held responsible. For a grown man to lie on a child in court or to ews media is dispicable. Speaking of poor parenting skills, maybe someone needs to take a look at the children of Young, Superville, and Hubbard. Obviously, there was a need for some parenting classes when those three stooges were being reared.
Shaquanda Cotton, who shoved a hall monitor at Paris High School,So what’s the different in this 14 year old African American boy was thrown down draiged around a wall and body slam and the officer try to rap his legs around this child’s neck and he was injured by a Paris High school teacher who is also a police officer. The child received injuries resulting in a visit to the ER because he attended his brother’s football game with assistant principal claiming he shouldn’t have been at the game because earlier in the year he had been in ISS. Rather than the adult being disciplined, the child was punished. Now a year later, the student is to stand trial for “trespassing”. Is this the type of “education” we can expect for our children now? Its time to stand up for our children. School is supposed to be a highway that leads to higher learning, not a highway into prison. There were many people there saw what happy,charges was brought against this child but later drop.there more to this story.but have you heard about the 14-year old girl in Texas who was sentenced to 7 years in prison for shoving a hall monitor? The teacher was not convicted of assaulting this 14 year old black male so why should the children be convicted.of what the teacher did the same as Shaquanda Cotton did.All this took place in the same town same school PARIS TEXAS (LAMAR COUNTY).